The Capital Punishment Debate

[rmc_wannabe]

Capitial "punishment" does not punish; it removes any ability for the guilty party to face any consequence or feel any remorse for their actions.

It is merely an act of retribution. In our most primal anger, that might provide some comfort. Then what?

Evil people do horrible, but impulsive, things; and often times have no desire to see the next day through. They are seeking the instant gratification of whatever perversion afflicts them; and if they were to die tomorrow, it would only stop their need to chase it. They don't have as much to lose as those they victimize.

No, the greater punishment in my opinion is the denial, denunciation, and removal of these cretins from society.

Let them face the pain of living with their actions. Should they feel no remorse? Fine. They spend the rest of their lives confined in a world that will not enable their compulsions and be tormented that way. An itch they will never be able to scratch again.

Do we need to grow a spine as a nation and see rehabilitation as a rare occurrence and not a default? Absolutely. But that said, I also don't feel that justice is served by hitting the Easy button for someone who probably values their own life less than the State does.

 

[brihard]

Do we need to grow a spine as a nation and see rehabilitation as a rare occurrence and not a default? Absolutely. But that said, I also don't feel that justice is served by hitting the Easy button for someone who probably values their own life less than the State does.

Gonna quibble with this. Rehabilitation is neither a default, nor is it rare. Lots of people end up falling into crime for a time and eventually get out of it and carry on with life. That’s not to say everyone can or will given the right circumstances; some criminals are incorrigible, some are simply predators. We need to better separate these from society for as long as it takes. But for many others, crime is situational and economic. Maturity also has a lot to do with it; there’s a reason crime is heavily concentrated in young men.

But anyway, I know the conversation is more about the worst of the worst; predators preying on people. We need an option to reliably remove some from society until they die.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I would go farther than just the most serious offences for the death penalty. I would include those repeat offender career criminals who just clog up the justice system, harm society, and take away from the citizenry as well as drug dealers.

Personally I don’t care for continually paying for people who actively harm society and have no interest in being a contributing part of it.

You can go into the morality of taking a life and what if the state gets it wrong, but we make those decisions everyday with even less due process than our pretty fair court system.

Take healthcare. We actively underfund it. People die because of it. Yet we aren’t in the news crying about how unfair it is and what we should be doing to fix it. Depending on where you live in this country is sometimes the difference between a life saving treatment and death.

Life in prison is a death sentence, just one where the executioner lacks the guts to carry out the sentence themselves.

 

[Altair]

I would go farther than just the most serious offences for the death penalty. I would include those repeat offender career criminals who just clog up the justice system, harm society, and take away from the citizenry as well as drug dealers.

Personally I don’t care for continually paying for people who actively harm society and have no interest in being a contributing part of it.

You can go into the morality of taking a life and what if the state gets it wrong, but we make those decisions everyday with even less due process than our pretty fair court system.

Take healthcare. We actively underfund it. People die because of it. Yet we aren’t in the news crying about how unfair it is and what we should be doing to fix it. Depending on where you live in this country is sometimes the difference between a life saving treatment and death.

Life in prison is a death sentence, just one where the executioner lacks the guts to carry out the sentence themselves.

Canada, if run by Lord Farquaad

 

[mariomike]

If / when re-instated , do they bring back the rope? Seems a bit old- fashioned in the 21st Century.

 

[Altair]

If / when re-instated , do they bring back the rope? Seems a bit old- fashioned in the 21st Century.

If we are to join the more barbaric nations on the Planet, like those in the middle east, or Africa, China and the USA, we might as well embrace it.

 

[YZT580]

If we are to join the more barbaric nations on the Planet, like those in the middle east, or Africa, China and the USA, we might as well embrace it.

You are classifying the wrong group as barbaric. It is the guilty person who has possibly tortured, raped, beaten or simply killed another individual because he could that is the barbarian. A barbarian by the way is a savage uncivilized person who is utterly lacking in social mores at least that is what Webster says. It isn't barbaric to try and protect others by eradicating such a person. In fact, as the Supreme Court has ruled it is barbaric to keep them locked up but we chose the wrong solution to that result. We should have immediately re-instituted the death penalty.

 

[Altair]

You are classifying the wrong group as barbaric. It is the guilty person who has possibly tortured, raped, beaten or simply killed another individual because he could that is the barbarian. A barbarian by the way is a savage uncivilized person who is utterly lacking in social mores at least that is what Webster says. It isn't barbaric to try and protect others by eradicating such a person. In fact, as the Supreme Court has ruled it is barbaric to keep them locked up but we chose the wrong solution to that result. We should have immediately re-instituted the death penalty.

By all means, lets join the paragons of virtue and civilization that have the death penalty.

• Afghanistan
• Bangladesh
• China
• India
• Indonesia
• Japan
• North Korea
• Pakistan
• Singapore
• Taiwan
• Thailand
• Vietnam
• Maldives
• Myanmar
• Bahrain
• Egypt
• Iran
• Iraq
• Jordan
• Kuwait
• Lebanon
• Oman
• Palestine
• Saudi Arabia
• Syria
• Yemen
• Botswana
• Comoros
• Democratic Republic of the Congo
• Ethiopia
• Lesotho
• Nigeria
• Somalia
• South Sudan
• Sudan
• Uganda
• Bahamas
• Barbados
• Cuba
• Dominica
• Guyana
• Jamaica
• Saint Kitts and Nevis
• United States
• Belarus

Just toss Canada on that list, it's great company.

 

[ArmyRick]

I lean right. You all know that. I am for punishing criminals harshly. Make no mistake about it. Hell, my mother was an Ontario corrections officer and some of the stories of the inmates didn't soften me on their treatment.

I am against capital punishment.

Two reasons.

One, think of the David Milgard story here in Canada David Milgaard - Wikipedia

We may have ended up killing an innocent man. I am sure there are other examples.

Now, for the reason two and its nasty. If I was facing the rest of my life in prison or be put to death? I'll take death. Day after day, year after year, sometimes decade after decade. Caged in a depressing environment. Its a worse punishment than death.

 

[Altair]

I lean right. You all know that. I am for punishing criminals harshly. Make no mistake about it. Hell, my mother was an Ontario corrections officer and some of the stories of the inmates didn't soften me on their treatment.

I am against capital punishment.

Two reasons.

One, think of the David Milgard story here in Canada David Milgaard - Wikipedia

We may have ended up killing an innocent man. I am sure there are other examples.

Now, for the reason two and its nasty. If I was facing the rest of my life in prison or be put to death? I'll take death. Day after day, year after year, sometimes decade after decade. Caged in a depressing environment. Its a worse punishment than death.

It also costs more.

 

[Eaglelord17]

It also costs more.

Only if you do it wrong.

 

[Altair]

Only if you do it wrong.

True. If you do it with legal oversights and appeals, due process, and the fullness of time, it costs more.

If you line them up against a wall like China or Iran, it's pretty cost efficient.

Assuming we go the rule of law path, it's going to cost more.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just toss Canada on that list, it's great company.

Carney visited 16 of the countries you mentioned. They can't be that bad if we're trying to trade with them?

 

[Altair]

Carney visited 16 of the countries you mentioned. They can't be that bad if we're trying to trade with them?

There is a big difference between trying to sell your stuff to them, or trying to get them to invest in your country, and importing their justice systems, wouldn't you say?

Or maybe we are all more comfortable with Sharia law than we let on?

 

[Jarnhamar]

[

There is a big difference between trying to sell your stuff to them, or trying to get them to invest in your country, and importing their justice systems, wouldn't you say?

Or maybe we are all more comfortable with Sharia law than we let on?

Having a similar law as one of the countries you mentioned doesn't mean we're importing their justice system though.

 

[Altair]

[

Having a similar law as one of the countries you mentioned doesn't mean we're importing their justice system though.

Going from a list of countries that includes every country in Europe save Belarus to one with China, the Middle east and Northern Africa speaks volumes.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Going from a list of countries that includes every country in Europe save Belarus to one with China, the Middle east and Northern Africa speaks volumes.

Do you mean it speaks volumes about Carney’s approach to trade?

 

[mariomike]

If we are to join the more barbaric nations on the Planet, like those in the middle east, or Africa, China and the USA, we might as well embrace it.

I meant old-fashioned.

By the end of the 19th Century, the rope was already being replaced by the chair.

 

[YZT580]

Going from a list of countries that includes every country in Europe save Belarus to one with China, the Middle east and Northern Africa speaks volumes.

apples and oranges. Doesn't make it wrong nor does being in the company of Europe make it right. Capital punishment is far more humane than being incarcerated for your life and that should be the alternative. Morals and justice are not supposed to be based upon what your neighbour feels is right. It should be base upon an absolute and the absolute should be when you take another's life yours should forfeit your own

 

[Altair]

Do you mean it speaks volumes about Carney’s approach to trade?

No.

Trading with those on that list is economics, and outside the scope of this thread.

In terms of human rights, it speaks volumes.