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48Highlander
Guest
If, as Soldiers, we were never allowed to "mess with tradition", my regiment would still be wearing the kilt in battle.
D
dannybou
Guest
I don‘t believe I called anybody anything. Do you feel targeted by what I said? That‘s a shame, because it wasn‘t my intention at all. I am not interested whatsoever to get into a back and forth about this subject. I believe in what I believe and tradition has and should still have it‘s place in the mess halls and in the military as a whole. In my opinion there should still be a mess dress code. Mess halls are not restaurants. Restaurants are for civilians. The military is prouder than that isn‘t it?
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
You say it as if the 48th are the only Highland Regiment in Canada.
Heh, Art Johnson posted pics of full dress on my message board; it showed the 48th wearing, of all things, scarlet tunics and feather bonnets on parade...when exactly was it you say you "messed with tradition"
It‘s a bit of a strawman, anyway. Traditions are based on reasons, and I don‘t want to look at some jackass‘ ugly, hairy, sweaty feet anymore than I want people coming in to our orderly room dressed like a retard in a backwards baseball hat, baggy pants and goatee.
I think the underlying theme here is professionalism - putting the unit, and/or the mission first and before yourself. It‘s why we wear uniforms in the first place and why, as has been rightly pointed out, we should hold ourselves to higher standards when off duty as well.
Which still doesn‘t explain the "off duty" uniform of regimental PT sweats and fanny packs for regular force personnel at the mall or in line at the bank, but I won‘t open that can of worms again because I‘ll surely lose that argument (again)
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
OK, lets STAT this one, unless someone has something worthwhile to imput,
instead of oh yeah....yeah, no you yeah...
How about a comment on how society in general has let the morale fiber and equiette as a whole soften. As a budding teenager, my mother gave me a book of manners and etiquette to me after I asked my parents how I go about asking a girl to dance...
Fortunately that information has helped me greatly and even had the effect of impressing my wife when I fisrt asked her to dance with me way back when.
I feel that this is reflective of a lack of respect towards others that is permeating our society dispite the fact we Canadians are supposed to be more polite and understanding...
And yes, as members of the CF, we should hold and maintain a higher standard of conduct then others especially when occupying space in our enviroment (ie mess hall, Canex, etc).
Sort of like rugby...be the gentleman who play like hooligans when the time comes.
instead of oh yeah....yeah, no you yeah...
How about a comment on how society in general has let the morale fiber and equiette as a whole soften. As a budding teenager, my mother gave me a book of manners and etiquette to me after I asked my parents how I go about asking a girl to dance...
Fortunately that information has helped me greatly and even had the effect of impressing my wife when I fisrt asked her to dance with me way back when.
I feel that this is reflective of a lack of respect towards others that is permeating our society dispite the fact we Canadians are supposed to be more polite and understanding...
And yes, as members of the CF, we should hold and maintain a higher standard of conduct then others especially when occupying space in our enviroment (ie mess hall, Canex, etc).
Sort of like rugby...be the gentleman who play like hooligans when the time comes.
D
dannybou
Guest
Yes!!!! That‘s exactly what it‘s all about. Professionalism, self respect and above all, the brotherhood. There is still a brotherhood right...
D
dannybou
Guest
Tradition? The military is entirely based on tradition. There is tradition and honour in the Regiments. We shouldn‘t be discussing the dress codes insides a mess hall but in the esprit de corps of the army, we should be discussing which regiment is the best, which platoon is the best, which squad is the best, not trivial stuff like this. Tradition goes back to hundreds of years. From the War of 1812 through the Fenian Raids, the Metis uprising, the Boer War, WW1, WW2, Korea, CYprus, Croatia. When you join up, are the recruits being instructed in their Regiments history? The Canadian battles of Vimy, Paascheandale, Mons? The PPCLI and RCR at the Gully and Ortona? The R22R at Casa Berardi? The PPCLI in Korea? The PPCLI at Medak? The CAR in Cyprus? You should all be proud of your Regiments Battle Honours, of your grandfathers, great-grandfathers who served and died for the same Regiments you are now serving in. That is the Army, that is tradition.
Don‘t worry about the dress code in a mess hall! You‘re in the Army!
Don‘t worry about the dress code in a mess hall! You‘re in the Army!
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
What I love about this forum (and life in general), is how people take a comment directed at one thing, and apply it to another (ie. how I said that if you don‘t like the standards in the CF (dress in the mess hall) get the **** out, and then make it sound like I stated that if you talk loud, you should be released). I‘m used to stunned-assed people, as I work around them everyday, so I guess I shouldn‘t be surprised that I encounter them here.
As for the mess hall issue, I don‘t eat in one now, unless I‘m on course or duty, but I am still surprised at how often people have to be told what is considered acceptable dress. In Gagetown they have (or had the last time I was in there) a photo in the BFK (Big F‘in Kitchen) of what is acceptable dress, and what isn‘t. I suppose for those that can‘t read...... As somebody pointed out, it isn‘t a restaurant, and whether people know it or not, the standard has "relaxed" quite a bit over the years to accomodate change. In most messhalls, you can wear PT (clean) gear to accomodate pers who like to eat before going to PT, and now you don‘t have to wear a shirt with a collar, as you used to. So there are changes to accomodate real needs, not just the need to be able to be a slob and/or lazy. Wait until you reach the lofty reaches of the Sergeant‘s and WO‘s Mess, and have to wear collared shirts and slacks, jacket and tie for functions, etc. ***** away, and your bitching will fall on deaf ears....
If you don‘t like it, write a sensible memo to the Base Chief or the KO (Kitchen Officer) and see what can be done to change what you perceive to be wrong. Bitching about it to your buddies accomplishes little. Don‘t let a little work put you off.
And remember this: you conform to the will of the Army, not the other way around. Don‘t act all surprised that you are expected to be a certain way once you serve, and expect the Army to bend to your expectations. No wait, that has already happened, and look where that has gotten us......
Al
As for the mess hall issue, I don‘t eat in one now, unless I‘m on course or duty, but I am still surprised at how often people have to be told what is considered acceptable dress. In Gagetown they have (or had the last time I was in there) a photo in the BFK (Big F‘in Kitchen) of what is acceptable dress, and what isn‘t. I suppose for those that can‘t read...... As somebody pointed out, it isn‘t a restaurant, and whether people know it or not, the standard has "relaxed" quite a bit over the years to accomodate change. In most messhalls, you can wear PT (clean) gear to accomodate pers who like to eat before going to PT, and now you don‘t have to wear a shirt with a collar, as you used to. So there are changes to accomodate real needs, not just the need to be able to be a slob and/or lazy. Wait until you reach the lofty reaches of the Sergeant‘s and WO‘s Mess, and have to wear collared shirts and slacks, jacket and tie for functions, etc. ***** away, and your bitching will fall on deaf ears....
If you don‘t like it, write a sensible memo to the Base Chief or the KO (Kitchen Officer) and see what can be done to change what you perceive to be wrong. Bitching about it to your buddies accomplishes little. Don‘t let a little work put you off.
And remember this: you conform to the will of the Army, not the other way around. Don‘t act all surprised that you are expected to be a certain way once you serve, and expect the Army to bend to your expectations. No wait, that has already happened, and look where that has gotten us......
Al
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
I‘ll say WOW, when I was a young Sergeant in the late 40‘s you wore full uniform or Blazer and flannels with Regimental tie. I remember in Petawawa "Big Jim" Goodrich of 1 RCR wouldn‘t even allow we Highlanders into his mess. Even the guys he knew from the Italian Campaign.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Infanteer, you paid a monthly Mess Fee regardless whether you were living in or out. In my experience we only ate in the mess on special occaisions.
- Reaction score
- 9,369
- Points
- 1,260
Ok, I‘m a little confused now. Are we talking about dress standards in the Mess, as in the bar/club that Junior Ranks, SNCO‘s and Officers go to or are we talking about the chow hall, also commonly referred to as the mess and seperated by ranks on some bases.
I think we are getting two different buildings (and two different standards) crossed here.
I think we are getting two different buildings (and two different standards) crossed here.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
Infanteer, you are probably right and we are talking about different eras also. The club as you called it was usually refered to as the Mess Parlour and if there was a seperate dining facility it was called the Dining Room (imagine that). Even so I don‘t recall anyone being allowed to enter either area dressed in coveralls which was quite often our training dress. At the time I speak of we had battledress which was introduced to the British Army in 1937 to be both a walking out and a training uniform. It wasn‘t introduced to the Canadian Army till 1939 and was replaced sometime in the 70s I believe.
Attitudes have changed over the last 50 years and society seems to be more laid back and relaxed so I guess the army has moved with the times. I have not had a suit on since I retired, I have ties in my closet that are older than my grandchildren. The only time I wear them is to go to a wedding or a funeral most of the time I‘m dressed in slacks, jeans or cords and a sports shirt or sweater, they are more comfortable.
Attitudes have changed over the last 50 years and society seems to be more laid back and relaxed so I guess the army has moved with the times. I have not had a suit on since I retired, I have ties in my closet that are older than my grandchildren. The only time I wear them is to go to a wedding or a funeral most of the time I‘m dressed in slacks, jeans or cords and a sports shirt or sweater, they are more comfortable.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
Dress standarts , most messes, and dining rooms allow jeans ( in good condition), and a shirt with a collar. If you wear sandles , you must wear socks.The bottom line is common sense, and dress in a tasteful manner. On special occasions , such as a " Meet and Great", which are not as formal as a mess dinner , dress is nomally , slacks , and shirt , sometime this may include a tie , and sports jacket.Overal dress standards , tend to vary from base to base, mess to mess.
- Reaction score
- 184
- Points
- 1,210
For the record, here are the results recovered from the old poll:
How do you feel about lax dress and deportment?
Keep it up 5% (3)
Cut it out 88% (56)
Ignore it 8% (5)
How do you feel about lax dress and deportment?
Keep it up 5% (3)
Cut it out 88% (56)
Ignore it 8% (5)
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 230
Lets not confuse the two. Now a days, there is a difference between a mess and a dining hall. Officers and NCO Messes have dress standards. Dining hall and JR have looser standards but still have standards.
For those who feel that the standards are archaic and should be loosen up are slowly but surely strangling the heritage and tradition out of the Army because it doesn't suit their particular life style. We are in the Army, and as such are professionals. Part of that is taking a little time before heading to supper, by ensuring you don't look like or dress like a slobs before leaving the barracks. and this includes sandals.
For those who feel that the standards are archaic and should be loosen up are slowly but surely strangling the heritage and tradition out of the Army because it doesn't suit their particular life style. We are in the Army, and as such are professionals. Part of that is taking a little time before heading to supper, by ensuring you don't look like or dress like a slobs before leaving the barracks. and this includes sandals.
