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The Eternal Debate- helmet scrim; fact or fiction

What are your views on using helmet scrim?


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cupper

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milnews.ca said:
They sure do break up the helmet outline ....
beaufortstill.jpg

Works too well. Makes one of the troopers look like a dog. ;D
 

Cloud Cover

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Guy in the middle (with the AM vest + brain bucket) has a look of resignation on his face that yes, he really is going to have to defuse that bomb buried in the road behind the photographer :)
 

daftandbarmy

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3 Para at Mt Longdon.

They did most of their fighting at night so scrim wasn't an issue.

We wore it all the time on our Para helmets back in the UK.
 

cupper

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daftandbarmy said:
3 Para at Mt Longdon.

They did most of their fighting at night so scrim wasn't an issue.

We wore it all the time on our Para helmets back in the UK.

You would think that scrim at night would be advantageous,especially when the enemy comes wandering along blindly, sticks their hands out to feel what that hard lump in front of them is.

"Hmmm. Doesn't feel like a helmet. Must be a bush or something." ;D
 

a_majoor

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Scrim is perfectly logical even when advancing to contact. You are not always doing fire and movement, and there are many times where the platoon or portions thereof are hidden away (while the Pl Comd is up front doing his appreciation, for example, or after you fight through and are consolidating), so anything to reduce the enemy's chances of seeing you and delivering fire (from mortars or their depth position, for example), can only help.
 

daftandbarmy

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Thucydides said:
Scrim is perfectly logical even when advancing to contact. You are not always doing fire and movement, and there are many times where the platoon or portions thereof are hidden away (while the Pl Comd is up front doing his appreciation, for example, or after you fight through and are consolidating), so anything to reduce the enemy's chances of seeing you and delivering fire (from mortars or their depth position, for example), can only help.

How not to be seen, as it should be taught of course  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmRgQX82O4
 

Towards_the_gap

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Question:

Using local foliage/vegetation as 'scrim' is unacceptable why?

Also, scrim aids in the concealment of a 30 ton diesel-guzzleing-carbon-footprint-destroying-solid-green-steel-behemoth in what way?

I always laughed when, after this hard on for scrim found its way back into the minds of the 'thank god the wars over, now back to real soldiering' brigade, you would be out on exercise and see a grumpy looking bush sat in the drivers seat of a rented pickup. Nothing spoke greater volumes about the dichotomy of peacetime budget cut soldiering than this.
 

daftandbarmy

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Towards_the_gap said:
Question:

Using local foliage/vegetation as 'scrim' is unacceptable why?

Also, scrim aids in the concealment of a 30 ton diesel-guzzleing-carbon-footprint-destroying-solid-green-steel-behemoth in what way?

I always laughed when, after this hard on for scrim found its way back into the minds of the 'thank god the wars over, now back to real soldiering' brigade, you would be out on exercise and see a grumpy looking bush sat in the drivers seat of a rented pickup. Nothing spoke greater volumes about the dichotomy of peacetime budget cut soldiering than this.

It's even better if the 'bush' happens to be wearing an expensive ghillie suit he just purchased, and it goes up in flames when he walks by the No. 1 burner.  ;)
 

medicineman

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I seem to remember that when the US invaded Panama, a lot of the Light Infantry guys were wearing stuff on their helmets that reminded me of Anthony Hopkins in "A Bridge Too Far" - "...we're wearing the wrong camouflage..."

 

daftandbarmy

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medicineman said:
I seem to remember that when the US invaded Panama, a lot of the Light Infantry guys were wearing stuff on their helmets that reminded me of Anthony Hopkins in "A Bridge Too Far" - "...we're wearing the wrong camouflage..."

A guy I know in 1 PARA was attached to the 82nd Airborne just before the time of the Grenada Invasion (1983) and converted them all to scrim.

They took some pride in this, apparently, and being a unique unit in their Brigade they coined a nickname for themselves, which he used during the invasion when he pointed at the TV shouting 'Hey look, there are my Rag Heads!'.
 

Jarnhamar

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Mild Tangent- black styrofoam our helmets come issued new with.

I've heard the CoC say it's a part of the helmets protection. It acts as an additional cushion, and troops need to replace their helmet if it's damaged or removed (I've personally witnessed that order). 

I've also heard it's just packing material.
 

PuckChaser

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A few years ago someone here contacted a captain that works on the bio science end of equipment testing and procurement to find out about aftermarket helmet pads. The black styrofoam is there to work with the suspension system to defend against back face deformation. Was a fairly detailed answer this captain gave, I haven't worn helmet pads since. I can forward it to you on dwan, but I won't be back to work until mid January.
 

cupper

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A few years ago the company I was working for at the time was buying new hard hats for the production staff and other people who needed them. They had several different styles and variations. The one we ended up going with had a black styrofoam insert similar to what you are describing.

The representative for the supplier or manufacturer explained that it served two purposes.

One was to act as insulation from extreme heat when working outdoors in the sun and high temps. And it does an excellent job at that.

It also functions as a deformable protective layer from impact. Fortunately I haven't had an opportunity to put that aspect of it to the test.
 

Navy_Pete

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Isn't that similar to the basic concept of bike helmets?  Years ago I went arse over tea kettle mountain biking, landed head first, and stood up.  I was fine, although my helmet split down the middle and flopped over both sides of my head like something out of a cartoon.  Aside from a bit of a sore neck and general embarrassment, I was perfectly okay.  Not entirely sure I would have walked away otherwise; I landed on gravel at the base of a hill, was going pretty fast and was in the deep woods.

Oddly enough now a big believer in bike helmets.
 
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jollyjacktar

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daftandbarmy said:
How not to be seen, as it should be taught of course  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmRgQX82O4

The bushes in the skit reminds me of a story I once read in the RCL's humour section.  The writer had been in North Africa in a Recce role.  The went out daily in an effort to find the Germans but came up empty.  This was a source of puzzlement as they knew the Germans were sending out their Recce patrols as well.  One day after another fruitless search they were heading back to camp.  As they were going through a wadi his gunner spotted several scrubby looking bushes about 75 meters away.  He decided to give one of the bushes a burst just to break the monotony and fired into the middle one.  The other two bushes jumped up and ran away at high speed and the mystery was solved.
 
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