The General Hillier Years. The Merged Superthread
- Thread starter bossi
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I don't want to be pessimistic, but my read of the article also makes me have fears that our new Minister may spell the downfall of the CF. The article doesn't really say what new developments he is keen on following. As we all know, the UK and US have larger militaries than ours and are able to have the luxuries of downsizing and building Bdes based on "Lighter" equipment. They also are keeping their "Heavies". We don't have those luxuries, as we have cut to the bone already. If Bill Graham keeps the same attitudes towards the World Situation, that he had in External Affairs, I can see some very poor developments occurring for the CF. Chretien's "Kinder, Gentler Army" may in fact become a "Kinder, Gentler Constabulary". If we didn't have the US as a buffer, I am sure that Mexico could have invaded and conquered us in the last decade. 
Wait and Shoot.
GW
Wait and Shoot.
GW
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
"Only cause I know you're going to be there to share it with me.... "
Your right about that.
Your right about that.
VERY INTERESTING !!! TIMES INDEED.
Is Bill Graham a leader and the best MND in a decade or is he someone who will reject and have all policy papers rewritten until they conform with what he wants , not necessarily whats best. A former MND named Paul H. led also, but not necessarily where everyone wanted to go.
As Lance said , the new CDS definitely appears to have a vision and one that appears to be agreement with MR. Graham so we may see feathers fly and new young turks take over at NDHQ . Remember one persons vision is anothers cockamamie idea but at least we appear to be seeing some action only time will tell. Then again we might have a no confidence vote over the budget , the GOV. falls and a new GOV. comes in with a totally new VISION. Don't you just love that word ,"VISION", has a nice ring to it and just like "assh****" everybody has one.
I have a VISION , that this board will have many interesting threads in the months ahead.
Cheers
Is Bill Graham a leader and the best MND in a decade or is he someone who will reject and have all policy papers rewritten until they conform with what he wants , not necessarily whats best. A former MND named Paul H. led also, but not necessarily where everyone wanted to go.
As Lance said , the new CDS definitely appears to have a vision and one that appears to be agreement with MR. Graham so we may see feathers fly and new young turks take over at NDHQ . Remember one persons vision is anothers cockamamie idea but at least we appear to be seeing some action only time will tell. Then again we might have a no confidence vote over the budget , the GOV. falls and a new GOV. comes in with a totally new VISION. Don't you just love that word ,"VISION", has a nice ring to it and just like "assh****" everybody has one.
I have a VISION , that this board will have many interesting threads in the months ahead.
Cheers
Lance Wiebe
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 6
- Points
- 230
You guys read <a href=http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1108163415215&call_pageid=970599119419>this?</a>
Looks like the vision closely follows the Marine Corps model....
Looks like the vision closely follows the Marine Corps model....
- Reaction score
- 5,865
- Points
- 1,360
Now Bob MacDonald says the appointment is all part of a reason to do nothing for a while using the "New Paper" as an excuse.....hmmmm
Sun, February 13, 2005
Grits a study in dithering
ARMED FORCES EQUIPMENT IS OLDER THAN THE PEOPLE USING IT, BOB MACDONALD LAMENTS
By BOB MACDONALD
CANADA'S DEFENCE policy under the Liberals is clear-cut: When pressure builds to spend more money to modernize our sadly neglected armed forces, announce yet another government study. That way, Prime Minister Paul Martin and his defence minister -- "Fighting Bill" Graham from Toronto's plush Rosedale riding -- can back off from doing anything meaningful.
Back in 1994, the government announced a study to re-organize and modernize the forces. While most of its recommendations were never implemented, the Martin-led Liberals announced another study last summer.
Oh, and when the opposition Conservatives ripped into the government's do-nothing defence policy during the election campaign, Martin suddenly announced he'd add 5,000 troops to the forces. Not surprisingly, top dogs in the forces wondered where they'd get the money. Ah yes, the Liberals won the election -- and the 5,000 have still not been added.
So it should have been no surprise this past week when word came from Ottawa that Graham had called that latest study "dreadful dreck" -- and ordered yet another one.
This time, the dithering Martin's selling point is that he has appointed a new military whiz -- Gen. Rick Hillier -- to be chief of the defence staff. Hillier, 41, was quoted as describing the existing study as "boring, dry and dreadful."
HELICOPTER FIASCO
The study-piled-on-study policy means most of Canada's forces use equipment-planes, tanks, armoured vehicles and ships that are older than those forced to use them.
Take the notorious, 41-year-old Sea King helicopter that was scheduled for replacement more than a decade ago when Jean Chretien came to power. He promptly scuttled a contract for its replacement awarded by the previous Conservative government -- at a cost of $500 million to Canada's taxpayers as a cancellation penalty.
Finally, just months ago, Martin's regime awarded a contract to a rival firm--whose chopper is still on the drawing board -- rather than give the job to the one that won the contract 10 years ago. Many experts say the losing chopper was a superior aircraft, and a version of it was recently purchased by the U.S. to be the presidential helicopter.
Meanwhile, the air force is trying to keep its Hercules transport planes flying -- and they're older than the Sea Kings. And recently the forces had to shell out millions of dollars to rent Russian-made transport planes to fly its DART emergency force to Sri Lanka to help the tsunami victims.
Canada's Leopard tanks are being phased out in favour of a light armoured wheeled vehicle with a 105-mm cannon. Critics say they're too lightly armoured to survive long on a battlefield.
COYOTE TOP-NOTCH
Oh sure, some acquisitions, such as the Coyote armoured vehicle, are considered top-notch, but the army is still trying to operate with a fleet of trucks that is rusting out.
"Every officer and man in the Canadian Forces can put his hand on his heart and say that he's served at some time or another in a vehicle that was older than him," Col. Bob Gunn, the army's director of equipment needs, was quoted as saying.
A much-reduced number of the forces' aging CF-18 fighter jets are being modernized and the navy's destroyers may have to be mothballed.
No matter. The Martin/Graham-led Liberal team has the answers -- the same old ones. When in doubt, announce a new pie-in-the-sky study. And when criticism builds, say nothing can be done until the study is completed.
It's the same dithering strategy Martin has adopted in stalling on a decision on whether to join the U.S. anti-nuclear missile system to protect our two countries. It will cost Canada nothing and no anti-missile sites will be on Canadian soil. Yet Martin is afraid of political static from within his own party.
He's a leader who apparently has no beliefs of his own. And the same goes for his overall defence policy.
Sun, February 13, 2005
Grits a study in dithering
ARMED FORCES EQUIPMENT IS OLDER THAN THE PEOPLE USING IT, BOB MACDONALD LAMENTS
By BOB MACDONALD
CANADA'S DEFENCE policy under the Liberals is clear-cut: When pressure builds to spend more money to modernize our sadly neglected armed forces, announce yet another government study. That way, Prime Minister Paul Martin and his defence minister -- "Fighting Bill" Graham from Toronto's plush Rosedale riding -- can back off from doing anything meaningful.
Back in 1994, the government announced a study to re-organize and modernize the forces. While most of its recommendations were never implemented, the Martin-led Liberals announced another study last summer.
Oh, and when the opposition Conservatives ripped into the government's do-nothing defence policy during the election campaign, Martin suddenly announced he'd add 5,000 troops to the forces. Not surprisingly, top dogs in the forces wondered where they'd get the money. Ah yes, the Liberals won the election -- and the 5,000 have still not been added.
So it should have been no surprise this past week when word came from Ottawa that Graham had called that latest study "dreadful dreck" -- and ordered yet another one.
This time, the dithering Martin's selling point is that he has appointed a new military whiz -- Gen. Rick Hillier -- to be chief of the defence staff. Hillier, 41, was quoted as describing the existing study as "boring, dry and dreadful."
HELICOPTER FIASCO
The study-piled-on-study policy means most of Canada's forces use equipment-planes, tanks, armoured vehicles and ships that are older than those forced to use them.
Take the notorious, 41-year-old Sea King helicopter that was scheduled for replacement more than a decade ago when Jean Chretien came to power. He promptly scuttled a contract for its replacement awarded by the previous Conservative government -- at a cost of $500 million to Canada's taxpayers as a cancellation penalty.
Finally, just months ago, Martin's regime awarded a contract to a rival firm--whose chopper is still on the drawing board -- rather than give the job to the one that won the contract 10 years ago. Many experts say the losing chopper was a superior aircraft, and a version of it was recently purchased by the U.S. to be the presidential helicopter.
Meanwhile, the air force is trying to keep its Hercules transport planes flying -- and they're older than the Sea Kings. And recently the forces had to shell out millions of dollars to rent Russian-made transport planes to fly its DART emergency force to Sri Lanka to help the tsunami victims.
Canada's Leopard tanks are being phased out in favour of a light armoured wheeled vehicle with a 105-mm cannon. Critics say they're too lightly armoured to survive long on a battlefield.
COYOTE TOP-NOTCH
Oh sure, some acquisitions, such as the Coyote armoured vehicle, are considered top-notch, but the army is still trying to operate with a fleet of trucks that is rusting out.
"Every officer and man in the Canadian Forces can put his hand on his heart and say that he's served at some time or another in a vehicle that was older than him," Col. Bob Gunn, the army's director of equipment needs, was quoted as saying.
A much-reduced number of the forces' aging CF-18 fighter jets are being modernized and the navy's destroyers may have to be mothballed.
No matter. The Martin/Graham-led Liberal team has the answers -- the same old ones. When in doubt, announce a new pie-in-the-sky study. And when criticism builds, say nothing can be done until the study is completed.
It's the same dithering strategy Martin has adopted in stalling on a decision on whether to join the U.S. anti-nuclear missile system to protect our two countries. It will cost Canada nothing and no anti-missile sites will be on Canadian soil. Yet Martin is afraid of political static from within his own party.
He's a leader who apparently has no beliefs of his own. And the same goes for his overall defence policy.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
Lance Wiebe said:
Actually, it looks like "Old" is "New" again. Graham has got Hillier implementing what Paul Hellier hoped for when he brought about "Unification" so many years ago.
GW
- Reaction score
- 35
- Points
- 530
Maybe I was the only one, but the download of the page hung my computer twice so I'm just copying and pasting it.
Matthew.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TORONTO STAR
Forces set for a major overhaul
Shake-up involves integrating army, navy, air force
Aims to enable military to react faster to disaster
BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH
OTTAWA BUREAU
OTTAWAâ â€A dramatic shake-up of the armed forces is in the works to enable the military to respond faster and more effectively to a major disaster or terror attack in Canada, the Toronto Star has learned.
But the change, which involves integrating the air force, navy, army and special forces into combined commands, would also allow the armed forces to respond more quickly when dispatched abroad, defence officials say.
Gen. Rick Hillier hinted at the looming change when he took over as chief of defence staff a week ago and said the forces would soon be treating Canada "as an operational theatre for probably the first time in our history.
"I have my very precise view on the way ahead â †this army, navy and air force working as one team in the Canadian Forces," Hillier said.
"We need to be much more effective at responding when our government and Canadians need us," he said.
This week, defence officials said the changes afoot at defence headquarters are an attempt to put a "Canada Command" focus on the armed forces.
Right now there are nine operational headquarters across the country â †two for the navy, four for the army, one for the air force, a northern command in Yellowknife and a joint command in Kingston.
The goal is to combine the air force, navy and army in the same commands to speed decision making and in the end, free up personnel for other duties. Under one possible scenario, the commands would be established based on geography, with a single joint headquarters for each region.
"The bottom line is we've got too many ... We're going to look to reduce them and integrate them," said one defence department official, describing the change as the biggest shake-up to hit the forces in years.
In talking about how Canadian troops responded to the Red River floods in 1997 and the ice storm that hit Eastern Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes in 1998, defence officials described a "Byzantine" structure of decision-making as requests for gear and personnel bounced from one headquarters to another.
"You say, `I need this aircraft'. That person probably has to check up through his air force chain of command ... it happens quickly but it's not decisive and immediate," the official said. "In an integrated headquarters, it's all right there so you more quickly (generate forces) and deploy your assets."
The military's Joint Task Force 2 commando team will have a high profile in the coming changes "because of the ongoing security environment," the official said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`I have my very precise view on the way ahead.'
Gen. Rick Hillier, chief of defence staff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hillier will outline the thrust of the plan when he meets with top officers next week. Officials admit the changes will be "disconcerting for some.
"The sacred cows had better take cover ... You're going to see a lot less talking about it and a very early move to implement," the official said.
The move to a leaner command structure is one example of the kind of changes coming with Hillier's leadership and the long-awaited review of Canada's defence policy.
Defence Minister Bill Graham, frustrated by the timid review proposed by senior brass last fall, has asked Hillier to deliver "something different and creative and bold," the official said.
Officials said the review will confirm the "bread-and-butter" roles for the armed forces â †the defence of Canada, co-operation with the United States in defending North America and a role for Canada in bringing stability to failing states around the world.
But it's in how those goals are achieved that the review will make its mark. It's expected to propose a more nimble force, bolstered by 5,000 new recruits, which can have a greater impact in global hotspots as well as at home.
"How do we get to where it is we need to go faster, deliver more capability and make it more focussed?" one official asked.
Long-time defence staff say a "perfect storm" of change is poised to hit the defence department, an institution known more around Ottawa for being stuck in its ways.
The shift started last summer with Graham's appointment as defence minister. Graham, the former foreign affairs minister, had a clear idea for the role of Canada's armed forces in the world. Ward Elcock, the former head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, was named deputy minister in the fall.
Further changes atop the military will be announced within the week. Sources say that Maj.-Gen. Marc Dumais, now assistant chief of the air staff, will be named Hillier's number two, as vice-chief of the defence staff.
Maj.-Gen. Andrew Leslie, an army officer who served as deputy commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, will be placed in charge of strategic planning.
Hand-in-hand with that vision is the need for more money for the military, officials say. Both Prime Minister Paul Martin and Graham have vowed more cash for the military in the Feb. 23 budget. Defence officials are confident the financial commitment will go beyond funding the 5,000 additional troops promised by the Liberals during last year's election.
"There will be the expansion of the troops, there will be the strong words of commitment and the importance of defence and there will be an initial investment beyond the expansion and could even be a significant one," one official said.
Matthew.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TORONTO STAR
Forces set for a major overhaul
Shake-up involves integrating army, navy, air force
Aims to enable military to react faster to disaster
BRUCE CAMPION-SMITH
OTTAWA BUREAU
OTTAWAâ â€A dramatic shake-up of the armed forces is in the works to enable the military to respond faster and more effectively to a major disaster or terror attack in Canada, the Toronto Star has learned.
But the change, which involves integrating the air force, navy, army and special forces into combined commands, would also allow the armed forces to respond more quickly when dispatched abroad, defence officials say.
Gen. Rick Hillier hinted at the looming change when he took over as chief of defence staff a week ago and said the forces would soon be treating Canada "as an operational theatre for probably the first time in our history.
"I have my very precise view on the way ahead â †this army, navy and air force working as one team in the Canadian Forces," Hillier said.
"We need to be much more effective at responding when our government and Canadians need us," he said.
This week, defence officials said the changes afoot at defence headquarters are an attempt to put a "Canada Command" focus on the armed forces.
Right now there are nine operational headquarters across the country â †two for the navy, four for the army, one for the air force, a northern command in Yellowknife and a joint command in Kingston.
The goal is to combine the air force, navy and army in the same commands to speed decision making and in the end, free up personnel for other duties. Under one possible scenario, the commands would be established based on geography, with a single joint headquarters for each region.
"The bottom line is we've got too many ... We're going to look to reduce them and integrate them," said one defence department official, describing the change as the biggest shake-up to hit the forces in years.
In talking about how Canadian troops responded to the Red River floods in 1997 and the ice storm that hit Eastern Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes in 1998, defence officials described a "Byzantine" structure of decision-making as requests for gear and personnel bounced from one headquarters to another.
"You say, `I need this aircraft'. That person probably has to check up through his air force chain of command ... it happens quickly but it's not decisive and immediate," the official said. "In an integrated headquarters, it's all right there so you more quickly (generate forces) and deploy your assets."
The military's Joint Task Force 2 commando team will have a high profile in the coming changes "because of the ongoing security environment," the official said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`I have my very precise view on the way ahead.'
Gen. Rick Hillier, chief of defence staff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hillier will outline the thrust of the plan when he meets with top officers next week. Officials admit the changes will be "disconcerting for some.
"The sacred cows had better take cover ... You're going to see a lot less talking about it and a very early move to implement," the official said.
The move to a leaner command structure is one example of the kind of changes coming with Hillier's leadership and the long-awaited review of Canada's defence policy.
Defence Minister Bill Graham, frustrated by the timid review proposed by senior brass last fall, has asked Hillier to deliver "something different and creative and bold," the official said.
Officials said the review will confirm the "bread-and-butter" roles for the armed forces â †the defence of Canada, co-operation with the United States in defending North America and a role for Canada in bringing stability to failing states around the world.
But it's in how those goals are achieved that the review will make its mark. It's expected to propose a more nimble force, bolstered by 5,000 new recruits, which can have a greater impact in global hotspots as well as at home.
"How do we get to where it is we need to go faster, deliver more capability and make it more focussed?" one official asked.
Long-time defence staff say a "perfect storm" of change is poised to hit the defence department, an institution known more around Ottawa for being stuck in its ways.
The shift started last summer with Graham's appointment as defence minister. Graham, the former foreign affairs minister, had a clear idea for the role of Canada's armed forces in the world. Ward Elcock, the former head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, was named deputy minister in the fall.
Further changes atop the military will be announced within the week. Sources say that Maj.-Gen. Marc Dumais, now assistant chief of the air staff, will be named Hillier's number two, as vice-chief of the defence staff.
Maj.-Gen. Andrew Leslie, an army officer who served as deputy commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, will be placed in charge of strategic planning.
Hand-in-hand with that vision is the need for more money for the military, officials say. Both Prime Minister Paul Martin and Graham have vowed more cash for the military in the Feb. 23 budget. Defence officials are confident the financial commitment will go beyond funding the 5,000 additional troops promised by the Liberals during last year's election.
"There will be the expansion of the troops, there will be the strong words of commitment and the importance of defence and there will be an initial investment beyond the expansion and could even be a significant one," one official said.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
(The above article is what Lance had Linked.)
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
To me it sounds like they will get there hands in more pies with more and stronger support coming from the other 3 elements not necessarily seeing them on the 6 o'clock news.
- Reaction score
- 4,671
- Points
- 1,160
This, from today's Globe and Mail is also interesting. (See: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050213.whillly0213/BNStory/Front/ )
Hope springs eternal ... even when one is as old as I and has been disappointed as often as I ...
Hope springs eternal ... even when one is as old as I and has been disappointed as often as I ...
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
And the Liberals get defeated in the next election and the new part fires the CDS or the Liberal party reneges on any promises made and fires the CDS.
But your right. If we hadn't heard it before and so often this might actually seem promising.
But your right. If we hadn't heard it before and so often this might actually seem promising.
Jungle
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 12
- Points
- 430
Well, at least it is permitted to hope... something that was out of reach just a year ago !!!
Realistically, it has been a very long time since there was that much political support for the Military; at least 22 years!!
BUT, I am also aware that politics are a dirty game, and things can change overnight.
Realistically, it has been a very long time since there was that much political support for the Military; at least 22 years!!
BUT, I am also aware that politics are a dirty game, and things can change overnight.
