The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Cloud Cover]

Do it for Ukraine!

If not you're a Russian sympathizer.

This is a big win for Trudeau: the money spent on implementing the ban, enforcing the ban, paying compensation - the whole program cost, really - will count as defence spending if the guns are handed to Ukraine.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is nothing more than "we're not getting western votes anyhow, so f*ck em" politics.

Lots of people east of Manitoba have firearms...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This is a big win for Trudeau: the money spent on implementing the ban, enforcing the ban, paying compensation - the whole program cost, really - will count as defence spending if the guns are handed to Ukraine.

That might be a bigger boondoggle than he's capable of selling. It'd work on Canadians, maybe, but nobody else in NATO would accept it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is a big win for Trudeau: the money spent on implementing the ban, enforcing the ban, paying compensation - the whole program cost, really - will count as defence spending if the guns are handed to Ukraine.

None of it means anything until they actually start rounding up gats. And that will never happen.

This is dead at birth. Its just words.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I reckon an OIC undoing the fuckery by the LPC and their associated anti firearms people might happen.

While the CPC is at it when they shut down the anti gunners give them this book to read:

They can’t use a OIC to undo it anymore. The last change to the firearms act (bill C21) only allows OIC’s to prohibit or restrict firearms but not to lower the classification.

The whole use of OIC’s needs to be done away with, as well as the specific banning of specific firearms. Set technical characteristics as the reasoning for any restrictions, not a arbitrary thing such as we don’t like ‘x’ firearm. A semi-auto is a semi-auto they aren’t more or less dangerous because they are a AK variant or a 10/22.

I am slightly impressed by the media’s ability to keep trotting out Polytechnic at this point though. They keep acting like it is front page news and so relevant every single year. I wasn’t even alive when it happened and I have a child of my own.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

None of it means anything until they actually start rounding up gats. And that will never happen.

This is dead at birth. Its just words.

It's bureaucratic bs is what it is.

Firearms community needs to realize though that it can never take its foot off the gas. They want all the guns, even the little Cooey 22.

It's time to start fighting dirty though. Every single range, and I mean every one, needs to prohibit Police Officers, Corrections Officers, Conservation Officers.... Basically any Public Official that uses a firearm, from using their facility.

Start creating bureaucratic havoc and rocking the boat. Get civil suits going. Companies like Black Creek Labs that are Canadian owned and followed all the rules to get their firearms certified only to have the Govt turn around and fuck em over.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's bureaucratic bs is what it is.

Firearms community needs to realize though that it can never take its foot off the gas. They want all the guns, even the little Cooey 22.

It's time to start fighting dirty though. Every single range, and I mean every one, needs to prohibit Police Officers, Corrections Officers, Conservation Officers.... Basically any Public Official that uses a firearm, from using their facility.

Start creating bureaucratic havoc and rocking the boat. Get civil suits going. Companies like Black Creek Labs that are Canadian owned and followed all the rules to get their firearms certified only to have the Govt turn around and fuck em over.

I agree with you. I'd be willing to take a ban on private ranges if it would help our cause.

Like I said before my $250 (if it happens) is going to the CPC and CCFR.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I agree with you. I'd be willing to take a ban on private ranges if it would help our cause.

Like I said before my $250 (if it happens) is going to the CPC and CCFR.

I don't comment on these issues much but my personal opinion is the community got complacent after the Gun Registry was taken away. As much as I detest some of the NRA's "From My Cold Dead Hands" preachy crap.... there is a method to the madness and it works.

The Anti-gun lobby doesn't want us to own any guns. Everyone who is a Fudd Hunter thinks.... owww my guns are safe now, I got mine so screw everyone else.

The Anti-gun lobby doesn't want hunting, they don't want target shooting, they don't want any guns. As far as they're concerned, you can get your meat from Loblaws like everyone else.

This Govt isn't your friend and anyone who supports them isn't your friend either. Govern yourselves accordingly.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Oh yah, and all the little piddly chicken shit Firearm Orgs that exist in Canada need to get their act together, merge and get organized.

NFA, CCFR, CSSA, DCRA.... merge them all together. Get some real lobbying power.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

They can’t use a OIC to undo it anymore. The last change to the firearms act (bill C21) only allows OIC’s to prohibit or restrict firearms but not to lower the classification.

The whole use of OIC’s needs to be done away with, as well as the specific banning of specific firearms. Set technical characteristics as the reasoning for any restrictions, not a arbitrary thing such as we don’t like ‘x’ firearm. A semi-auto is a semi-auto they aren’t more or less dangerous because they are a AK variant or a 10/22.

I am slightly impressed by the media’s ability to keep trotting out Polytechnic at this point though. They keep acting like it is front page news and so relevant every single year. I wasn’t even alive when it happened and I have a child of my own.

So, no present government can tie the hands of a future government. A future government can OIC whatever it likes. Or repeal C21.

 

[Eaglelord17]

So, no present government can tie the hands of a future government. A future government can OIC whatever it likes. Or repeal C21.

They can limit what they can immediately do.

The only reason they can use OICs to ban firearms is because it is written into the firearms act. Usually something of that nature would require a new law to be passed. However as it is currently written they could ban every firearm in existence today with just a OIC. The same part of the act that allows them to ban firearms with OICs prevents them from removing them from classifying them to a lower category with a OIC.

The way to change it would require rewriting the law (such as repealing C21, or rewriting the firearms act). That takes much more time than a OIC. For example the ‘independent’ senate could stall it if they so chose.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Lots of people east of Manitoba have firearms...

True, but how many of them vote in that red bit, though?

Oh yah, and all the little piddly chicken shit Firearm Orgs that exist in Canada need to get their act together, merge and get organized.

NFA, CCFR, CSSA, DCRA.... merge them all together. Get some real lobbying power.

Should be as easy to do as getting veterans' groups to do the same, right? That said ...

... Every single range, and I mean every one, needs to prohibit Police Officers, Corrections Officers, Conservation Officers.... Basically any Public Official that uses a firearm, from using their facility.

Start creating bureaucratic havoc and rocking the boat. Get civil suits going. Companies like Black Creek Labs that are Canadian owned and followed all the rules to get their firearms certified only to have the Govt turn around and fuck em over.

Not too shabby ideas to twist arms a bit. Still, see the map above

 

[Colin Parkinson]

They can’t use a OIC to undo it anymore. The last change to the firearms act (bill C21) only allows OIC’s to prohibit or restrict firearms but not to lower the classification.

The whole use of OIC’s needs to be done away with, as well as the specific banning of specific firearms. Set technical characteristics as the reasoning for any restrictions, not a arbitrary thing such as we don’t like ‘x’ firearm. A semi-auto is a semi-auto they aren’t more or less dangerous because they are a AK variant or a 10/22.

I am slightly impressed by the media’s ability to keep trotting out Polytechnic at this point though. They keep acting like it is front page news and so relevant every single year. I wasn’t even alive when it happened and I have a child of my own.

OIC are a huge part of day to day government operations. We used them to exempt certain things from our Act. Basically it allows you to add or change a regulation, as long as it is consistent with the Act the authority is under and consistent with the other Acts that pertain to laws and regulation.

 

[Haggis]

It's time to start fighting dirty though. Every single range, and I mean every one, needs to prohibit Police Officers, Corrections Officers, Conservation Officers.... Basically any Public Official that uses a firearm, from using their facility

Right up until the CFP through the provincial CFOs amends your range licence with the stipulation that you cannot refuse to rent to public agencies.

Many clubs rely on the revenue from public agencies as well, so they weren't willing to play along when CSSA brought this idea up a few years ago.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Oh yah, and all the little piddly chicken shit Firearm Orgs that exist in Canada need to get their act together, merge and get organized.

NFA, CCFR, CSSA, DCRA.... merge them all together. Get some real lobbying power.

Having been involved with several of them, I am ok with different orgs, it means we are not dependent of a few individuals and sometimes Ministers can get a hate on with an individual from a organization and freeze them out. What the gun orgs need to do is bury the hatchets and then work on a grand strategy, where they quietly work together for a common goal, but use different methods and avenues to get there. From the outside it looks like they have their own agenda's, but deep down it's coordinated. People joining multiple orgs also beefs up the numbers as well.

 

[Fabius]

Right up until the CFP through the provincial CFOs amends your range licence with the stipulation that you cannot refuse to rent to public agencies.

Many clubs rely on the revenue from public agencies as well, so they weren't willing to play along when CSSA brought this idea up a few years ago.

If there are no firearms in the “restricted” class owned by civilians there is actually very little reason for formal private range’s licensed by the CFOs. Non restricted firearms can be zeroed and practiced with on the pasture that was formerly a licensed range I suspect.

Without civilian ownership of firearms similar to agency firearms there would also likely be less and less private ranges with facilities suitable for agency use. Ie why have a 25m pistol bay if there’s no pistols owned by the private members.

Will that affect range design and availability in the next 5 years for agencies? Likely not but in 15-20 years I would suspect it very much will ( if this trajectory is not greatly changed).

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Right up until the CFP through the provincial CFOs amends your range licence with the stipulation that you cannot refuse to rent to public agencies.

Many clubs rely on the revenue from public agencies as well, so they weren't willing to play along when CSSA brought this idea up a few years ago.

I would love to see that play out in Court. It's private property and a business transaction. I don't have to do business with anyone I don't want to.

I personally think many in the Firearms Community are still of mind that, "this will all blow over and it's all going to go back to normal when the CPC comes to power". AKA they have their head in the sand.

C-19 was a decade+ ago. Canada is a different Country now and gun owners/sports shooting enthusiasts are a dwindling group.

They also think that LE Organizations are their allies in this cause, after all, many LEO are firearms enthusiasts themselves. Sorry to say but this couldn't be further from the truth.

You hit the nail on the head with the money piece though. Most Ranges are hooked to the Govt teeth and want the $$$.

 

[ModlrMike]

Lots of people east of Manitoba have firearms...

Sure they do... which changes the calculus to "we're going to go up in flames, we might as well burn everyone when we do".

 

[Haggis]

I would love to see that play out in Court. It's private property and a business transaction. I don't have to do business with anyone I don't want to.

Your club's licence right now probably already says that public agents are allowed to use prohibited firearms without restrictions. This is just another small step and well within the authorities of the Firearms Act.

I personally think many in the Firearms Community are still of mind that, "this will all blow over and it's all going to go back to normal when the CPC comes to power". AKA they have their head in the sand.

It will take years. Likely at least 1/2 way into PP first term before any attempt a meaningful positive changes are made to Trudeau's assaults on lawful firearms ownership.

C-19 was a decade+ ago. Canada is a different Country now and gun owners/sports shooting enthusiasts are a dwindling group.

Not true. The number of PAL holders has never been higher. The number of PAL holders rose by 87,694 in 2023, the biggest annual advance since at least 2003. I have a friend who runs a firearms training business teaching the CFSC and CRFSC and he cannot keep up with demand.

They also think that LE Organizations are their allies in this cause, after all, many LEO are firearms enthusiasts themselves. Sorry to say but this couldn't be further from the truth.

Many major LEAs see this as a colossal waste of money and resources. Some have called Trudeau out on his claims that these bans have made Canada safer. Within federal agencies, many of the rank and file feel the same way. But organizationally, the federal agency senior management has to toe the party line. The RCMP's union has opposed this from the start.

You hit the nail on the head with the money piece though. Most Ranges are hooked to the Govt teeth and want the $$$.

Gun clubs and shooting ranges are by law not-for-profit entities. If you want to keep your membership dues low and make shooting accessible to a larger number of people, rental income helps do that. The agencies that use my club are excellent clients. They leave the place spotless, never interfere with other members and give us good reviews with the CFO and local government when asked. Dozens are members now, because they like the place.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I personally think many in the Firearms Community are still of mind that, "this will all blow over and it's all going to go back to normal when the CPC comes to power". AKA they have their head in the sand.

This is a cornerstone issue for the CPC, no matter if they recognize it or not. Millions of Canadians are expecting action on this; and quickly. And a strong majority Gov by them should allow this to happen.

If they fail in this, the fallout for them will be millions of lost voters who I think will end up going PPC and that should be a nightmare scenario for the CPC.