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Haggis said:
On the other hand the source may be some Russian troll just trying to stir things up.
I'll wait until I see something more substantial.
The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0
- Thread starter Jarnhamar
- Start date
On the other hand the source may be some Russian troll just trying to stir things up.
I'll wait until I see something more substantial.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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- 910
A wounded animal is a dangerous one, and the Libs are definitely wounded. I'm unsure if Bill C-71 has time to get passed which would be another failure of them to execute and another blow for them. They are bleeding votes and a new threat on their left, the Greens, has emerged making their job even harder.
This could be easy cheap points for them to try and recuperate some of the votes they lost on the left, if they overdo it (all handguns and all currently restricted rifles) I think it might backfire as those who sit on the LibCon fence would be pushed to the Cons after another serious blow to democracy and liberty. But I think if they limited the order-in-council to make AR-15s prohibited, they would walk away saying they did something to take assault rifles off the streets as they promised, and unfortunately not enough Canadians, including not enough firearm owners, would be appalled.
This could be easy cheap points for them to try and recuperate some of the votes they lost on the left, if they overdo it (all handguns and all currently restricted rifles) I think it might backfire as those who sit on the LibCon fence would be pushed to the Cons after another serious blow to democracy and liberty. But I think if they limited the order-in-council to make AR-15s prohibited, they would walk away saying they did something to take assault rifles off the streets as they promised, and unfortunately not enough Canadians, including not enough firearm owners, would be appalled.
- Reaction score
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Couple of problems I see with making them prohibited.
a) do you grandfather all owners to 12.6 status and expand the base of people that can own prohibs?
b) if not, do we create a special class for AR variants?
There's more along that line, but eliminating the obvious allows for drilling down to the end result.
Whatever they do though, they will be creating thousands of criminals overnight.
a) do you grandfather all owners to 12.6 status and expand the base of people that can own prohibs?
b) if not, do we create a special class for AR variants?
There's more along that line, but eliminating the obvious allows for drilling down to the end result.
Whatever they do though, they will be creating thousands of criminals overnight.
- Reaction score
- 5,538
- Points
- 1,160
The only reason I can see them doing that is to try and bait the worst out of some people, and it's working.
On CGN, I see people working on theories that they have not enough time left in their lives to let anyone take their weaps. I get the sentiment, but I think it's too much Hollywood and not enough pragmatism. Why anyone would think the high ground would be to operationalize this to fighting words let alone fighting sentiment is beyond me. It's just property and a certain construct of "rights", and the deprivation thereof does not amount to property in weapons = the DNA of their life, or anyone else.
On CGN, I see people working on theories that they have not enough time left in their lives to let anyone take their weaps. I get the sentiment, but I think it's too much Hollywood and not enough pragmatism. Why anyone would think the high ground would be to operationalize this to fighting words let alone fighting sentiment is beyond me. It's just property and a certain construct of "rights", and the deprivation thereof does not amount to property in weapons = the DNA of their life, or anyone else.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 497
- Points
- 910
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/UPDATE---AR-15-Rifle-to-be-included-in-Liberal-Gun-Bans.html?soid=1124731702303&aid=3w5MwM13yKc
CSSA is reporting that "two separate, unconnected government sources, one of whom has direct knowledge of the plan, confirmed the Liberal government’s proposed “sweeping gun ban” will include the AR-15 target rifle."
CSSA is reporting that "two separate, unconnected government sources, one of whom has direct knowledge of the plan, confirmed the Liberal government’s proposed “sweeping gun ban” will include the AR-15 target rifle."
- Reaction score
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- 1,040
Fishbone Jones said:
They cannot grandfather anyone without changing the laws. Currently the laws allow for the prohibition of firearms based off a OIC but you cannot grandfather anyone into a prohibited category except for direct relatives with a pre-1945 registered 12.6 firearm.
- Reaction score
- 5,538
- Points
- 1,160
The Toronto Star takes the view there is no sweeping gun ban in the works, because --- wait for it ....
"It could be that the Trudeau team is aware that all this pro-feminist rhetoric of the past four years has been interpreted in some quarters as being unfriendly to men, and that it doesn’t want gun control falling into that polarized, men-versus-women atmosphere. Gun control, historically, has been polarizing enough already."
:
As everybody knows, Trudeau is not about polarizing ...
"https://www-thestar-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thestar.com/amp/politics/political-opinion/2019/05/10/trudeau-government-takes-a-gender-neutral-approach-to-gun-control.html?amp_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestar.com%2Fpolitics%2Fpolitical-opinion%2F2019%2F05%2F10%2Ftrudeau-government-takes-a-gender-neutral-approach-to-gun-control.html"
"It could be that the Trudeau team is aware that all this pro-feminist rhetoric of the past four years has been interpreted in some quarters as being unfriendly to men, and that it doesn’t want gun control falling into that polarized, men-versus-women atmosphere. Gun control, historically, has been polarizing enough already."
:
As everybody knows, Trudeau is not about polarizing ..."https://www-thestar-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thestar.com/amp/politics/political-opinion/2019/05/10/trudeau-government-takes-a-gender-neutral-approach-to-gun-control.html?amp_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestar.com%2Fpolitics%2Fpolitical-opinion%2F2019%2F05%2F10%2Ftrudeau-government-takes-a-gender-neutral-approach-to-gun-control.html"
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
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Cloud Cover said:
I think allot people talk a big game but when actually faced with violent civil disobedience the vast majority will cower and peacefully surrender their firearms.
The thing with firearms arms debates in Canada is that the Liberals and other left leaning parties really have nothing to lose with bans and confiscations.
Our numbers are too small and we are more or less mostly right leaning folks. So it wouldn't hurt the poll numbers.
In fact I think it would work in their favor. The average Canadian is apathetic to just about everything that doesn't immediately effect them negatively or get in the way of hockey night in Canada, and they aren't firearms owners. Lastly they have a negative opinion of firearms and believe there is a gun problem in this country.
Just look at the Kingston city council vote.
- Reaction score
- 1,846
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ModlrMike said:
Regarding the first part of your statement I refer to what The Constitution Act of 1867 has to say on the matter:
Also, from the Supreme Court of Canada in its ruling in Harrison v. Carswell, [1976] 2 S.C.R. 200 Date: 1975-06-26
Whether federal responsibility for regulating firearms overrides provincial responsibility for property rights and whether an OIC would constitute "due process" I'll leave up the legal experts.
As for the second part of your statement, I take it you are placing the blame on PM Pierre Trudeau, when the actual guilty person was Roy Romanow, Sask. Attorney General.
Anyone looking for further reading of Canadian property rights can check out these sites:
PROPERTY RIGHTS AND THE CONSTITUTION
Property Law (The Canadian Encyclopedia)
Are property rights protected in Canadian law?
Sorry for the hijack. Back to regular programming.
- Reaction score
- 9,047
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- 1,160
Bottom line is that you can sit back, do nothing and wait until June.
This government will do what it wants, no matter what the populous thinks or wants.
You can worry a hole in your guts till then or sit back and wait to see what happens.
Civil disobedience to the previous laws was fairly widespread with people refusing to register their firearms.
Once the requirement got dropped, even more vowed to never again let the government know what property they hold.
Quebec is the most draconian in the country for self established gun laws.
They also have the highest incidence of non compliance.
The law will be ineffective and only useful for scoring political points, depending of course whether it happens or not and what kind of dictatorial powers the PM decides to exercise.
This could/ could not become a defining moment in civil disobedience and far outweigh whatever points he thought he could gather.
The anti gun squad on Parliament Hill is really just a well connected, vocal minority of bleating folks that roll out Armageddon for the benefit of the liberal party's tactics of demonization and deflection of the less organised, uninterested and feeble response from the gun lobby that far outweighs the concern of the left.
Whatever is planned, will probably take place in whatever form they decide. They'll talk about concensus and overwhelming support of the majority of Canadians, but it'll just be another lie from the liberals to force their agenda.
Bottom line is we don't know what's happening. A couple of rumours, well placed or not. That's not enough to get upset about......yet. We need to see what they roll out, then there will be serious thought among individuals, who will seek out like minded others to become a larger force. With luck this will be the incident that galvanizes everyone in the country concerned with overreach of government and property rights.
But again, until we see what he says when he gets all grandiose and pompous during the speech to women and virtue signals the world, there is no sense getting wrapped around the axle about what may or may not happen.
Any firearm owner that didn't see this coming and didn't make contingencies to ensure their property would be somewhat safe until the liberals are defeated has only themselves to blame and will likely be the same people that meekly turn over their property with all the woe is me whimpering that'll come with it. They'll gather in garages, have a couple of beers, grouse about trudeau, bitch about their losses, then go home and watch Jimmy Fallon.
This government will do what it wants, no matter what the populous thinks or wants.
You can worry a hole in your guts till then or sit back and wait to see what happens.
Civil disobedience to the previous laws was fairly widespread with people refusing to register their firearms.
Once the requirement got dropped, even more vowed to never again let the government know what property they hold.
Quebec is the most draconian in the country for self established gun laws.
They also have the highest incidence of non compliance.
The law will be ineffective and only useful for scoring political points, depending of course whether it happens or not and what kind of dictatorial powers the PM decides to exercise.
This could/ could not become a defining moment in civil disobedience and far outweigh whatever points he thought he could gather.
The anti gun squad on Parliament Hill is really just a well connected, vocal minority of bleating folks that roll out Armageddon for the benefit of the liberal party's tactics of demonization and deflection of the less organised, uninterested and feeble response from the gun lobby that far outweighs the concern of the left.
Whatever is planned, will probably take place in whatever form they decide. They'll talk about concensus and overwhelming support of the majority of Canadians, but it'll just be another lie from the liberals to force their agenda.
Bottom line is we don't know what's happening. A couple of rumours, well placed or not. That's not enough to get upset about......yet. We need to see what they roll out, then there will be serious thought among individuals, who will seek out like minded others to become a larger force. With luck this will be the incident that galvanizes everyone in the country concerned with overreach of government and property rights.
But again, until we see what he says when he gets all grandiose and pompous during the speech to women and virtue signals the world, there is no sense getting wrapped around the axle about what may or may not happen.
Any firearm owner that didn't see this coming and didn't make contingencies to ensure their property would be somewhat safe until the liberals are defeated has only themselves to blame and will likely be the same people that meekly turn over their property with all the woe is me whimpering that'll come with it. They'll gather in garages, have a couple of beers, grouse about trudeau, bitch about their losses, then go home and watch Jimmy Fallon.
- Reaction score
- 12,821
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https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-gun-buyback-screw-up
In the Toronto police's attempt to brag about the success of their gun buyback program they posted personal information about at least one of the individuals turning in guns. This puts them at an increased risk to be targeted by thieves and probably harassment from anti-gun SJWs.
In the Toronto police's attempt to brag about the success of their gun buyback program they posted personal information about at least one of the individuals turning in guns. This puts them at an increased risk to be targeted by thieves and probably harassment from anti-gun SJWs.
Haggis
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
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Even though it a long weekend, Minister Blair is keeping the gun ban possibility very much alive.. However, if one reads between the lines one could surmise that anything AR-15 like is probably doomed in June with all other semi-automatics and handguns to follow during their next mandate.
- Reaction score
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Haggis said:
Gun bans ~ real bans ~ are likely keys to winning many urban ridings in October.
35% of Canadians live in three cities:
Toronto ~ population 5.9 Million;
Montreal ~ population 4.0 Million; and
Vancouver ~ population 2.4 Million.
Of course, some of those voters are in "close" suburbs" but many, something like 100 of the 338 seats in the Commons are really "urban" and in those ridings gun ownership is low and gun ownership is often seen as a problem, not as a right.
I'm not predicting anything ... just saying why Bill Blair is not saying anything that gun owners want to hear.
Haggis
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
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E.R. Campbell said:
Edward, you may not be predicting anything, but I earlier posted a quote from a Liberal strategist that predicted gun bans as an "untapped opportunity" to boost Liberal fortunes. Any bans announced in June may well push Liberal poll numbers back into majority territory. But I also believe those numbers will fall once the Liberals start to open their mouths and speak to a stable or increasing violent crime rate post ban.
- Reaction score
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All semantics and conjecture until the shoe drops. It'll be what it is.
People have had fair warning, if they haven't taken steps by now, to secure or dispose of the rumoured items, they have nobody to blame.
I know, at least, five people that have called the CFO in the last week, and had their AR registrations changed to lower receiver only. The CFO has been, surprisingly, cordial, efficient and happy to help. It's a small move that may save you thousands, depending on your holdings. If you haven't made that call....... :dunno:
People have had fair warning, if they haven't taken steps by now, to secure or dispose of the rumoured items, they have nobody to blame.
I know, at least, five people that have called the CFO in the last week, and had their AR registrations changed to lower receiver only. The CFO has been, surprisingly, cordial, efficient and happy to help. It's a small move that may save you thousands, depending on your holdings. If you haven't made that call....... :dunno:
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 497
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I think I need a lawyer to interpret it, but I think Bill C-71 has built into it that if you own a restricted firearm and it is changed to prohibited, you are then eligible for a prohibited PAL.
"Grandfathered individuals — regulations
(9) An individual is eligible to hold a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms of a prescribed class if the individual
(a) possesses one or more firearms of that class on a day that is prescribed with respect to that class;
(b) holds a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class in the circumstances prescribed with respect to that class; and
(c) was continuously the holder of a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class beginning on the day that is prescribed — or that is determined under the regulations — with respect to that class."
Tricksy Liberals, they aren't just using an OIC because they've ran out of time / are desperate, banning firearms by OIC was always their plan.....
"Grandfathered individuals — regulations
(9) An individual is eligible to hold a licence authorizing the individual to possess prohibited firearms of a prescribed class if the individual
(a) possesses one or more firearms of that class on a day that is prescribed with respect to that class;
(b) holds a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class in the circumstances prescribed with respect to that class; and
(c) was continuously the holder of a registration certificate for one or more firearms of that class beginning on the day that is prescribed — or that is determined under the regulations — with respect to that class."
Tricksy Liberals, they aren't just using an OIC because they've ran out of time / are desperate, banning firearms by OIC was always their plan.....
- Reaction score
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- Points
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I wonder if this will create a new class of prohibs? Their original idea for prohibs was to class a number of poodle shooter pistols and their owners to 12.6. The idea was that in a couple of generations, they'd be done with prohibs by default death of the holders. If everyone that has AR types, get that 12.6 designation, they've just expanded the prohib base by thousands of people and guns....and years. The legal traffic/ market in prohibs will expand accordingly.
If they give out 12.6 that is.
If all they do, is switch the designation to 12.6, it'll make no difference to the owner. They'll still be able to take them to the range, etc just as now. Maybe they just want to be seen as tough, but it's all a word game. Prohibited 12.6 or restricted carry the same rules for transport and use, just a different class name. They get their publicity and they don't end up in a big confiscation fight with taxpayers.
If they give out 12.6 that is.
If all they do, is switch the designation to 12.6, it'll make no difference to the owner. They'll still be able to take them to the range, etc just as now. Maybe they just want to be seen as tough, but it's all a word game. Prohibited 12.6 or restricted carry the same rules for transport and use, just a different class name. They get their publicity and they don't end up in a big confiscation fight with taxpayers.
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