The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Haggis]

Well, then, it should be super easy for various police forces to arrest and charge these ”legal gun owners.

If there were a single charge laid that supported this narrative Vaughn, Minister Blair and the PM would be all over this like ugly on an ape.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

There was a gun shop in Burnaby that was importing guns and then selling them under the table (including handguns), they eventually got caught, how they imagined they were going to get away with it, I can't imagine. Went in their once and they were all excited to see me, I guess having a "real customer" was good cover. The place reeked of sketchy and never went back.
Now gun shops are under the direct review of the CFO, so some of the responsibility needs to rest there as well.

 

[Haggis]

There was a gun shop in Burnaby that was importing guns and then selling them under the table (including handguns), they eventually got caught, how they imagined they were going to get away with it, I can't imagine.

They count on not being scrutinized due to limited investigative resources the same way impaired drivers count on missing those two or three RIDE checks every weekend.

Imagine what a billion dollars in re-directed ban-and-buyback money could do for policing and border integrity....

 

[Haggis]

Oops!

I know this is an opinion piece, but it appears that someone didn't really press the "delete" button on the Long Gun Registry. Is this serious? I think so, as it shows contempt for Parliament (and not the only time the RCMP has done so on the gun file). Is Minister Blair next up to issue an apology, using the standard Liberal template?

 

[Haggis]

Further to my above post, Conservative MP Blaine Calkins is sponsoring another petition for the Liberals to ignore regarding the alleged RCMP retention of Long Gun Registry records, contrary to the will of Parliament.

I'm expecting the Liberal's reply to this petition, when tabled, will be to state something along the lines of "the RCMP knew that the Harper government was compromising public safety in order to pander to Canada's NRA, so they acted in the best interests of all Canadians. This act is completely excusable and we commend the RCMP for taking a principled stand against flawed legislation".

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I signed the petition, no doubt you are right, but I do use it in arguments that the police broke the law and wilfully disobeyed Parliament to people when I debate with them about gun control.

 

[OldSolduer]

Oops!

I know this is an opinion piece, but it appears that someone didn't really press the "delete" button on the Long Gun Registry. Is this serious? I think so, as it shows contempt for Parliament (and not the only time the RCMP has done so on the gun file). Is Minister Blair next up to issue an apology, using the standard Liberal template?

The RCMP is a bureaucracy like every other department but more so. Bureaucracies don't toss out stuff like this at any time.

 

[Haggis]

The RCMP is a bureaucracy like every other department but more so. Bureaucracies don't toss out stuff like this at any time.

Perhaps the RCMP should be made to suffer the indignity of a Somalia document style "Easter egg hunt" for LGR records..

 

[Haggis]

In May 2021, the CCFR was handed a small victory in that Associate Chief Justice (ACJ) Gagné ruled that the Trudeau government must provide the evidence used to support the May 2020 OIC gun ban to the CCFR for use in their court case against the OIC. The Liberal's position was that the evidence was cabinet confidence and was exempt from disclosure. ACJ Gagné ordered that the evidence was to be provided to her so she could weigh the public interest impact of disclosure.

Of course, the Liberal government refused, citing Section 39 of the Canada Evidence Act which allows the Clerk of the Privy Council to "make secret" any document which is believed would seriously harm the national interest if released.

The Liberal government is thereby saying that the evidence used to support the May 1, 2020 OIC is so damaging, so explosive, so shocking that it cannot be seen by anyone.

...or, maybe...

that the evidence cannot and must not be disclosed because it doesn't exist?

 

[ModlrMike]

Gotta love that open and transparent government we elected [/sarcasm]

 

[OldSolduer]

Gotta love that open and transparent government we elected [/sarcasm]

Its not about cold hard facts and evidence - its about "feelings". Nothing more than feelings.....

 

[QV]

Gotta love that open and transparent government we elected [/sarcasm]

Nobody is immune to bad judgement occasionally, however voting for the Trudeau Liberals was so obviously a poor choice if the voter had been paying any attention at all beyond CBCs top cover. The skewed narrative to justify unnecessary firearm bans is only one very small example.

 

[Eaglelord17]

So looking at my local paper, one scumbag has been arrested on weapons charges 3 times in the last month, from waving around illegally acquired loaded pistols, to waving around bear spray.

This is getting ridiculous, we have criminals essentially having a revolving door where there is no consequences for their actions so why would they stop committing crimes? They have no fear anymore. People I work with have caught people trying to go through their car and when they yell at them the only reaction from the criminal is to flip them off and walk across the street to try their neighbours doors. The Liberals are literally creating a crime crisis in our country, then using it to blame legal firearms owners as though we are somehow the problem.

The cops are overloaded, my one friend is a dispatcher and the cops are literally going from one higher priority call to the next with no time to address the smaller stuff. Many murders recently, someone has become a firebug, etc. If you have a noise complaint it is never going to get answered at the moment, etc. It also must be so frustrating to constantly be arresting the same people for the same crimes and knowing your going to be arresting them again in a few days or weeks. Not only that but the public has turned on them, demanding they do something about the criminals, not realizing their is literally nothing they can do as when they arrest them they are immediately released.

I am amazed people haven't gone vigilante yet because if the government is failing to provide order, eventually people will take it on themselves to do so.

 

[mariomike]

I am amazed people haven't gone vigilante yet because if the government is failing to provide order, eventually people will take it on themselves to do so.

Citizen's Arrest, or full Bronson?

 

[ModlrMike]

So here's a question. If the government's decisions are challenged before at court, and the government refuses to present the evidence used to make the decision (even to the judge in chambers) should that not result in a judgment for the plaintiff?

 

[Eaglelord17]

Citizen's Arrest, or full Bronson?

Bronson style, only so long people will take being robbed and cheated with no consequences before they have had enough.

 

[Haggis]

So here's a question. If the government's decisions are challenged before at court, and the government refuses to present the evidence used to make the decision (even to the judge in chambers) should that not result in a judgment for the plaintiff?

Not necessarily. However, when the government goes to present it's case without evidence, the judge can make an "adverse inference", meaning that she can conclude that the government has no evidence or that the evidence is not strong enough to support the government's case. The judge could then rule in favour of the plaintiff either wholly or partly.

My belief is that the AG or PMO will intervene in this case before that point.

 

[mariomike]

Bronson style, only so long people will take being robbed and cheated with no consequences before they have had enough.

Saw it at the show when it came out. Bronson put it this way, "It's like killing roaches - you have to kill 'em all. Otherwise, what's the use?"

 

[Halifax Tar]

I am amazed people haven't gone vigilante yet because if the government is failing to provide order, eventually people will take it on themselves to do so.

Its coming. Look at the cases out west in the Prairies with farmers defending their property. Canada is a slow burn.

 

[Haggis]

Back in February, Minister Blair and the PM said to the effect that "Canadians don't arm ourselves for protection from our fellow citizens". That was meant to dissuade citizens from using firearms or other weapons for self-defence and for the police and courts to take a hard stance against those practices.