The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Jarnhamar]

Great points CBH.

I always scratch my head when people buy into to these 11th hour election promises.

If it was such a big deal why not start dealing with it week one someone is in office.

Speaking of backfiring, the LPC did a bunch of them in chinese targeting Chinese Canadians. I guess to counter the Conservative Chinese ads about Liberals and hard drugs.

The LPC must not have did their homework- Asians in Canada make up a huge, I'd say exploding, demograph of firearm owners and people getting into guns and shooting.

When I seen the ads I laughed and said you dummies.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Any ideas where this election leaves the liberal promise of banning firearms?

Few thoughts.

The criteria for what constitutes an assault weapon is pretty open meaning millions of guns could in theory be taken. Easily over a billion dollars. I think I calculated up to 6 or, 7 billion.

Would a minority government be able to pass a law like that which will cost 6 billion?

NDP didn't seem to care that much. Singh spoke about supporting cities and municipalities being able to ban handguns if they wanted but I don't recall much talk about assault weapons.

Quebec instituted their own gun registry but from what I can see there's a very low compliance rate. Like the long gun registry of old, Quebec firearm owners aren't playing ball. Would the Bloc want to escalate the Quebec gun registration into a full firearm ban?

With the #wexit talk what would the optics of a gun ban pushed by the Liberals look like?  I can't imagine western Canada using it as an oppertuity to paint the LPC as trying to disarm them before bullying them. Like Trudeau told Scheer "You're not in Alberta anymore".



Safe to say that promise is put on the back burner or will the Liberals try to use it to their advantage?

 

[Remius]

Any ideas where this election leaves the liberal promise of banning firearms?

Few thoughts.

The criteria for what constitutes an assault weapon is pretty open meaning millions of guns could in theory be taken. Easily over a billion dollars. I think I calculated up to 6 or, 7 billion.

Would a minority government be able to pass a law like that which will cost 6 billion?

NDP didn't seem to care that much. Singh spoke about supporting cities and municipalities being able to ban handguns if they wanted but I don't recall much talk about assault weapons.

Quebec instituted their own gun registry but from what I can see there's a very low compliance rate. Like the long gun registry of old, Quebec firearm owners aren't playing ball. Would the Bloc want to escalate the Quebec gun registration into a full firearm ban?

With the #wexit talk what would the optics of a gun ban pushed by the Liberals look like?  I can't imagine western Canada using it as an oppertuity to paint the LPC as trying to disarm them before bullying them. Like Trudeau told Scheer "You're not in Alberta anymore".

Safe to say that promise is put on the back burner or will the Liberals try to use it to their advantage?

I think they will move quick on this.  The NDP will support as they are on the same page more or less.  Quebec's political class has always supported less guns so I doubt the Bloc will oppose it either. 

At least on cities banning handguns.  Banning certain firearms would likely be easy as well as they would leave it to the RCMP to decide I would think.

 

[Haggis]

Look for an announcement on or near the Ecole Polytecnique massacre date.  As for what will be banned, see the New Zealand list for an idea of how the PM will proceed.

My guess is that the Government will determine that allowing municipalities to enact handgun bans wilt be too cumbersome to administer and result in a patchwork of gun free urban areas with lawless countrysides in between, that a nation handgun ban will follow shortly thereafter.

And if you think the "fair market value" price offered for your confiscated guns will be anywhere near reasonable, forget it.  I foresee that all transfers of newly classified prohibs will be stopped meaning that you won't even be able to sell then to a foreign buyer, thus driving the "fair market value" in Canada to near zero.

 

[Eaglelord17]

My prediction unfortunately is they are likely to use a OIC to ban rifles they don't like (hence avoiding parliament), and might just forget about the handgun thing. Otherwise they have to risk running it through parliament and that is only risk, not much reward.

The laws required to ban any firearm in the country is already enacted, its surprisingly easy for the government to do so, its just disgusting that they might.

 

[Jarnhamar]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/rcmp-handgun-stolen-at-mall-in-west-toronto-1.4665811


Not sure why someone would keep a handgun in a satchel and goto the mall with it. Shoulda went with a fanny pack.

Those guns look like bricks. I wonder why the RCMP haven't moved to Sigs or Glock.

 

[Jonezy76]

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/rcmp-handgun-stolen-at-mall-in-west-toronto-1.4665811


Not sure why someone would keep a handgun in a satchel and goto the mall with it. Shoulda went with a fanny pack.

Those guns look like bricks. I wonder why the RCMP haven't moved to Sigs or Glock.

"Only the Police and Military should be trusted with guns"  ;D

 

[Eaglelord17]

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/police-seize-250-guns-200-000-rounds-of-ammo-from-kitchener-residence-1.4669099

Way to go police, you really have caught a dangerous criminal  :

 

[Jarnhamar]

https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/police-seize-250-guns-200-000-rounds-of-ammo-from-kitchener-residence-1.4669099

Way to go police, you really have caught a dangerous criminal  :

Our storage laws seem very ambiguous but 250 guns in the open or easily accessible if that's the case seems irresponsible to me.

He probably could have stuck with 225 guns and bought some trigger locks and safes.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Judge rules RCMP weapons serial numbers are not personal information. There must be a story behind this story! https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/gun-serial-numbers-are-not-personal-information-judge-tells-rcmp-1.4673232

 

[Eaglelord17]

Our storage laws seem very ambiguous but 250 guns in the open or easily accessible if that's the case seems irresponsible to me.

He probably could have stuck with 225 guns and bought some trigger locks and safes.

Obviously we don't have all the details as to how they were stored, such as was he home (in which case it doesn't have to be stored), where they were, and how they were. But even if it wasn't stored properly, at the end of the day it is a victimless crime.

If I was him I would also be looking at a lawsuit against the police for destruction of property (how they have his personal property stacked like cordwood), and invasion of privacy for the photos of personal property which is all legally acquired and is legally his property. That dummy grenade isn't a licenced or registered item and even if after all this is over his firearms get taken, he will still be allowed to own those. It is also interesting to note how most the media has reported that he had a grenade, this is the only one I saw which reported its dummy status.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Obviously we don't have all the details as to how they were stored, such as was he home (in which case it doesn't have to be stored), where they were, and how they were. But even if it wasn't stored properly, at the end of the day it is a victimless crime.

Understanding how flippy floppy our storage laws are, I don't think insecure firearms are a victimless crime. If they're stolen they can very much create victims. It's kind of like saying drinking and driving is a victimless crime as long as you don't crash. Lots of missing information so it's hard to make an informed opinion.

That dummy grenade isn't a licenced or registered item and even if after all this is over his firearms get taken, he will still be allowed to own those.

Yup. He can also own a flame thrower (for clearing ice and brush), RPG7 and 84mm CG. Just not a blow gun or ninja star. 

M203 style grenade launchers used to be unlicenced but I heard people need a RPAL to buy one now?

 

[NavyShooter]

You can own a 40mm, but you need to be registered with the Controlled Goods Directorate....there's a post about this on CGN somewhere I saw a while ago.  I haven't been on there in a while.

 

[Cloud Cover]

He had them In his dwelling together with ammunition, ostensibly also not stored. Even if he committed no firearms offence, it is certainly reckless or blind to the potential for something to happen.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Careful about how much you take from media and LEO in regards to Firearms Act violations, I have seen figures as high as 84% for "safe storage" charges withdrawn or tossed. Mainly as people don't understand the Act. if the non-restricted firearms are locked in a room or a closest they are considered stored. also the Act is silent as I recall on the "in use", so if a firearm is in use, then the storage requirements do not apply. The Act also does not speak that much about ammunition. Been a while since I dove into it, but with a "safe" (anything that has been modified to store firearms securely) then yes you can store ammunition with them. 

 

[Cloud Cover]

True enough: as a matter of being a responsible citizen and gun owner though? Locking the front door isn’t going to make the grade of reasonable and prudent behaviour in an urban environment ( and probably nowhere for that matter).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well they tried charging a guy for unsafe storage when it took the bad guys 3 days with power tools to break into his safe. The difference now is that there are several good lawyers versed in firearms law. A lot of cases were pleaded that should not have been because the lawyer hired did not know the Act. There is nothing stopping you from going above and beyond and it certainly helps you when you go to court. Fast access is also possible with biometric safes. 

 

[Haggis]

Let's just hope that this case is not another example used by the Government to "prove" that the only safe storage is centralized storage.

 

[Loachman]

Well they tried charging a guy for unsafe storage when it took the bad guys 3 days with power tools to break into his safe.

Mike Hargreaves, a firearms instructor who also wrote articles for Blue Line Magazine. I remember this incident well.

Only one article popped up when I (quickly) searched: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/1yt5l0/charges_dropped_in_mike_hargreaves_unsafe_storage/

 

[Jarnhamar]

Mike Hargreaves, a firearms instructor who also wrote articles for Blue Line Magazine. I remember this incident well.

Only one article popped up when I (quickly) searched: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/1yt5l0/charges_dropped_in_mike_hargreaves_unsafe_storage/

Thats such a messed up situation. 2 days to burn their way into a safe and he was still charged.


I do recall reading allegations the police had something against him and eledgedly wanted to punish him. Also allegations that the theives had connections to the police or one of the officers.

Not trying to disparage the police but when you consider it took 11 years to drop the charges and the whole 2 days to blow torch their way in = unsafe storage it doesn't seem implausible.