The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[NavyShooter]

When people build their own guns from pipes and other hardware, they will become criminals with illegal guns.

To be precise.

If you build a firearm of a class for which you have no license, you are a criminal.

If you build yourself a non-restricted firearm as a Possession an Acquisition License holder, you are, legally, good to go.

If you build yourself a restricted firearm as a holder of a Restricted PAL, and you go through the process to register and build the firearm properly, you are, legally, good to go.

You may not, without a business or special movie license, build a prohibited firearm. 

How do I know?  I may have built a firearm once upon a time.  It might be restricted.  I might have met with the Provincial Chief Firearms Officer three times during the build process for inspections of the item and to get his help with the paperwork. 

It might have originally been registered as a 'frame or receiver only' and then, on completion, re-registered as a Restricted Firearm.

There is no need to have a business license to build a firearm, only to build firearms to sell.

There are minutia of law that apply, and the problem with firearms laws seems to be that the idiots who write new legislation seem to not have a clue about the importance of that.  Some would call it dancing on the head of a pin, others would call it attention to detail.  A distinct lack of it is usually exhibited by those writing laws.

NS

 

[Haggis]

Probably true but not a good reason why 'you' should object to what I said. If people build illegal guns then they become criminals. You're talking about something entirely different because you're talking about criminals and my point made it abundantly clear that people who build illegal guns turn themselves into criminals in the process.

And also fwiw, he wasn't talking about criminals either so your objection is unfounded.

I didn't "object" to what you said.  I stated facts.

As Navyshooter pointed out there is a process whereby a PAL/RPAL holder can build their own firearm,whether it be from mail ordered parts (which will be screened by CBSA upon entry into Canada and only released if the consignee has the proper licences) or from gun tape, water pipes and 550 cord.  Everything else is illegal.

 

[Donald H]

I didn't "object" to what you said.  I stated facts.

As Navyshooter pointed out there is a process whereby a PAL/RPAL holder can build their own firearm,whether it be from mail ordered parts (which will be screened by CBSA upon entry into Canada and only released if the consignee has the proper licences) or from gun tape, water pipes and 550 cord.  Everything else is illegal.

Yes Haggis, years ago a good friend of mine, a CPO on the West coast, built his own deer rifle from scratch. Everything! And then created a new cartridge out of the 7.62X50 necked down to about .250. And all completely legal of course. If Navyshooter was around in the 70's he would know my friend as Les. Pretty much all the P/O's on the west coast knew each other.

Sorry about going off topic but I thought it was useful information.

 

[shawn5o]

Forgive my impudent tone.
I have heard you can build a slam shot gun from home hardware parts (galvanized gas pipe) for under 20$ canadian! I have heard you can start manufacturing ammunition for 50$!!  I have even heard rumours you can  3D print lowers and use EDM to make barrels(using parts from thrift stores)!!!!  :rofl: I won't link to it because my post will be deleted  (again)


My high school had an airgun shooting range. Probably one of the last in Canada.  My culture is firearms and having a good time.

Hi materialpigeonfibre

I wouldn't trust a "gun" made from hardware parts. The 3D printing is true. Someone in Alberta got caught building lower recievers using 3D.

Alberta man charged with 3D printing firearm parts
https://globalnews.ca/news/7313873/alberta-man-charged-alert-3d-printing-firearm-parts/

And the local HS here has a pellet gun range (for Army Cadets)

Your culture is like mine - guns and fun

:cheers:

 

[Haggis]

I wouldn't trust a "gun" made from hardware parts.

It will fire at least once.  That may be all you need.  Or, you may not need to fire it at all and just use it to threaten or intimidate someone who believes it to be real.

I recall a few decades ago some craftsmen-turned-bandits built a very realistic looking mock Browning M2 .50 cal and put it in the back of a van.  Then, they pulled up in front of a Brinks truck and used the fake "Ma Deuce" to rob the truck of it's contents.

 

[shawn5o]

It will fire at least once.  That may be all you need.  Or, you may not need to fire it at all and just use it to threaten or intimidate someone who believes it to be real.

I recall a few decades ago some craftsmen-turned-bandits built a very realistic looking mock Browning M2 .50 cal and put it in the back of a van.  Then, they pulled up in front of a Brinks truck and used the fake "Ma Deuce" to rob the truck of it's contents.

Hi Haggis

Do you remember "zip guns" - I don't know if true or not, but breaking a car antenna to fire a .22 round?

Yeah, I  remember that robbery with the 50 cal. I don't blame the Brink's guys - who would want to take a chance, eh

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Khyber pass gun plumbers laugh at your futile attempts

 

[suffolkowner]

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeau-targets-hunting-rifles-and-shotguns-not-crime-guns/wcm/9e23d0a9-b000-4fd9-994d-f1c21cc25e0f/

posting this article mostly because it says the ruger no 1 is banned! WTF, I have two and I never saw it on the list before. Its a single shot rifle for....I guess I'm 100% a criminal now

 

[Halifax Tar]

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeau-targets-hunting-rifles-and-shotguns-not-crime-guns/wcm/9e23d0a9-b000-4fd9-994d-f1c21cc25e0f/

posting this article mostly because it says the ruger no 1 is banned! WTF, I have two and I never saw it on the list before. Its a single shot rifle for....I guess I'm 100% a criminal now

Look into banned ammunition.  Some rifles have been banned in certain calibers.

 

[Donald H]

Look into banned ammunition.  Some rifles have been banned in certain calibers.

Are there other ammunition restrictions that would make Suffolk's rifle illegal?

On May 1, 2020, the Government of Canada has prohibited: nine (9) types of firearms, by make and model, and their variants; and. firearms with a bore of 20 mm or greater, and those firearms capable of discharging a projectile with a muzzle energy greater than 10,000 Joules; and.Jul 30, 2020

 

[Haggis]

Are there other ammunition restrictions that would make Suffolk's rifle illegal?

The Ruger No.1 came in a variety of calibres. If the one owned suffolkowner is of a calibre that would generate a muzzle energy greater than 10K joules, that firearm is now prohibited.

 

[Donald H]

The Ruger No.1 came in a variety of calibres. If the one owned suffolkowner is of a calibre that would generate a muzzle energy greater than 10K joules, that firearm is now prohibited.

Thanks for the info. So is this correct?

204 Ruger.
22 Hornet.
218 Bee.
222 Remington.
223 Remington.
22 PPC.
22-250 Remington.
220 Swift.

Not being familiar with the 22 PPC, I'm assuming the 220 Swift.

 

[suffolkowner]

Thanks guys I double checked and it's just the 460 weatherby that's banned due to the joules. My 6.5x55 and 35 whelen are safe for now

 

[Haggis]

Thanks guys I double checked and it's just the 460 weatherby that's banned due to the joules. My 6.5x55 and 35 whelen are safe for now

Curious. What 6.5x55 mm rifle do you have?

 

[suffolkowner]

Curious. What 6.5x55 mm rifle do you have?

Both my 6.5 x 55 and 35 whelen are ruger no 1. They're beautiful rifles but I haven't figured out the scope to my satisfaction yet. Which is why I started to freak out a little.

 

[shawn5o]

Are there other ammunition restrictions that would make Suffolk's rifle illegal?

Hey Don

Speaking of restrictions, ref ammo restictions for rifles .I won't comment. But going with pistols, calibres prohibited are .32 and .25 cals.

Back when I was attached posted to in D & E Pl, 1 HQ & Sigs, I cleaned the Brig Comd's weapon, a .32 cal and was told it was his "suicide pistol".
Cool, eh

Anyway maybe the govt. should just ban the AR-15 556 round from the civie market. Just a thought.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=shawn5o]

Anyway maybe the govt. should just ban the AR-15 556 round from the civie market. Just a thought.
[/quote]

Or we could ban rap music and target the gangster culture flourishing in big cities causing violence, shootings and crime.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Hey Don

Speaking of restrictions, ref ammo restictions for rifles .I won't comment. But going with pistols, calibres prohibited are .32 and .25 cals.

Back when I was attached posted to in D & E Pl, 1 HQ & Sigs, I cleaned the Brig Comd's weapon, a .32 cal and was told it was his "suicide pistol".
Cool, eh

Anyway maybe the govt. should just ban the AR-15 556 round from the civie market. Just a thought.

Caliber restrictions are the most pointless thing possible. How does banning any specific caliber accomplish any sort of reduction in crime?

 

[Donald H]

Hey Don

Speaking of restrictions, ref ammo restictions for rifles .I won't comment. But going with pistols, calibres prohibited are .32 and .25 cals.

Back when I was attached posted to in D & E Pl, 1 HQ & Sigs, I cleaned the Brig Comd's weapon, a .32 cal and was told it was his "suicide pistol".
Cool, eh

Anyway maybe the govt. should just ban the AR-15 556 round from the civie market. Just a thought.

That has me interested in the topic Shawn. Why would a .32 and a .25 be banned? I can only guess that there has to be a lot more 32's and .25's than I was familiar with 20 or 30 years ago.

I'm not familiar with any round that is designated AR-15 or would be suitable for only an AR-15. You must be suggesting a ban on some 5.56 round?

:cheers:

 

[Donald H]

Caliber restrictions are the most pointless thing possible. How does banning any specific caliber accomplish any sort of reduction in crime?

I have to agree in principle with that, at least from a relatively uninformed position.  Having said that, I do recognize the difference between a 50 cal machine gun and an old British double rifle of 50 cal or larger.

If those who make the laws are uninformed then it behooves the gun lobby to step forward and volunteer expertise on the subject that falls within the suggested parameters. All that is required would be that an agreement could be reached on the parameters. By doing that, silly mistakes could be avoided.

That is, assuming that there are some silly mistakes.

That would be a good discussion but don't consider it for my benefit.