The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Colin Parkinson]

You’re offended, ok, be offended…doesn’t change the fact that nowhere did I advocate for increased gunlaws in the US.
As for it being a crazy free-for-all down there….. In the US how many firefighters were just shot? How many school shootings have there been since January 1st, how many mass shootings? How many times have guns been brandished during some sort of traffic altercation in the past 6 months in the US. It is a free for all down there…..what other civilized, first-world OECD country has the number of law-abiding, adult citizens, excluding law-enforcement, walking around in their daily lives legally armed that the US does? Can it be changed? ….. no, in my opinion it can’t. As for Canada…I think the government has over-stepped and gone too far in the area of gun-control, especially as far as where long-guns are concerned and they should dial-back some of the restrictions and ease some of the processes.

Keep in mind that 50% of the homicides in the US are in 2% of the counties

 

[mariomike]

The United States had, by far, the highest homicide rate of the G7 countries between 2000 and 2023.

Readers interested in a deep dive into the subject,

February 27, 2025

The Journal of the American Medical Association

Homicide Rates Across County, Race, Ethnicity, Age, and Sex in the US​

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2830783

 

[OldSolduer]

Keep in mind that 50% of the homicides in the US are in 2% of the counties

That is an interesting statistic.

Which 2% is that? I will be certain to steer clear of them.

 

[KevinB]

You’re offended, ok, be offended…doesn’t change the fact that nowhere did I advocate for increased gunlaws in the US.
As for it being a crazy free-for-all down there….. In the US how many firefighters were just shot? How many school shootings have there been since January 1st, how many mass shootings? How many times have guns been brandished during some sort of traffic altercation in the past 6 months in the US. It is a free for all down there…..what other civilized, first-world OECD country has the number of law-abiding, adult citizens, excluding law-enforcement, walking around in their daily lives legally armed that the US does? Can it be changed? ….. no, in my opinion it can’t. As for Canada…I think the government has over-stepped and gone too far in the area of gun-control, especially as far as where long-guns are concerned and they should dial-back some of the restrictions and ease some of the processes.

The legally armed civilian has a much larger chance of not committing any crimes.

You should have paid attention to my comments about enforcing current laws and mental health issues.

I find any criminal firearm use to appalling, but me relinquishing my firearms will only make me an easier target.

Enforce laws on the books (stopping straw purchases being one, and actually locking up criminals who do violent acts or are armed when committing other crimes) and put money into mental health programs and give LE and the medical profession the ability to flag potential problems.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The legally armed civilian has a much larger chance of not committing any crimes.

You should have paid attention to my comments about enforcing current laws and mental health issues.

I find any criminal firearm use to appalling, but me relinquishing my firearms will only make me an easier target.

Enforce laws on the books (stopping straw purchases being one, and actually locking up criminals who do violent acts or are armed when committing other crimes) and put money into mental health programs and give LE and the medical profession the ability to flag potential problems.

Honestly a handgun registry started when a firearm is sold would go a long way in the States to prevent a lot of firearms being used in crimes. Prevents strawbuying, prevents it from being exported out of country by criminal organizations, and in a couple decades the vast majority will be registered.

It also doesn’t matter for the ‘government will take my guns argument’ as a handgun is only useful for self defence, which is 100% based on what a state will legally allow you to do with it. Long guns are where the value is for keeping governments in line (which is also why they generally try to regulate those instead of handguns).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That is an interesting statistic.

Which 2% is that? I will be certain to steer clear of them.

They are east coast, I can't recall without digging it up again. They are inner city hoods.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Honestly a handgun registry started when a firearm is sold would go a long way in the States to prevent a lot of firearms being used in crimes. Prevents strawbuying, prevents it from being exported out of country by criminal organizations, and in a couple decades the vast majority will be registered.

It also doesn’t matter for the ‘government will take my guns argument’ as a handgun is only useful for self defence, which is 100% based on what a state will legally allow you to do with it. Long guns are where the value is for keeping governments in line (which is also why they generally try to regulate those instead of handguns).

Handgun hunting is a recognised and popular sport in the US.

There are thousands upon thousands of already owned handguns that will never see a registry.

Registration leads to confiscation. When a governmment steals your firearms under the guise of safety, it is the politicians and governments safety they speak of, not yours.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

They are east coast, I can't recall without digging it up again. They are inner city hoods.

Most firearms homicides per 100,000 population

1) St. Louis city, MO - 48.5 per 100,000

2) Baltimore city, MD - 40.5

3) Orleans Parish, LA - 39.4

4) Shelby County, TN - 28

5) Philadelphia County, PA - 25.4

https://www.jacksoncountycombat.com/1113/Facts-Stats-Counties-With-Highest-Firearhttps://www.jacksoncountycombat.com/1113/Facts-Stats-Counties-With-Highest-Firear

 

[Eaglelord17]

Handgun hunting is a recognised and popular sport in the US.

There are thousands upon thousands of already owned handguns that will never see a registry.

Registration leads to confiscation. When a governmment steals your firearms under the guise of safety, it is the politicians and governments safety they speak of, not yours.

Just because handgun hunting is popular doesn’t mean it is really affected by a registry. Your not defending yourself with a handgun against the government. Long guns are a whole different story, but a simple registry on handguns only would over time reduce the handguns available to criminals.

Most firearm related crimes are committed with handguns due to their conceivability. They are also the least practical firearm for anything other than point blank range defence, as the saying goes it exists to give you time to get to your rifle. Yes you can hunt with it but it isn’t particularly practical. The people who do so do it for a challenge.

I am pretty pro-firearm ownership, I own many handguns and rifles. A handgun registry is also one of the few tools which actually works in stopping strawbuying. Canada had one or two idiots who tried to buy legal handguns and sell them to criminals, they got caught pretty quickly.

This would prevent felons from acquiring handguns and prevent gun stores from selling to them or their intermediaries. It would also have the knock on effect of reducing handguns available for gangs in Canada and other countries. Yes there will always be some unregistered handguns in the States (there is in Canada still), but it would be a constantly decreasing number of increasingly obsolescent firearms.

 

[Maxman1]

Most firearms homicides per 100,000 population

1) St. Louis city, MO - 48.5 per 100,000

2) Baltimore city, MD - 40.5

3) Orleans Parish, LA - 39.4

4) Shelby County, TN - 28

5) Philadelphia County, PA - 25.4

https://www.jacksoncountycombat.com/1113/Facts-Stats-Counties-With-Highest-Firearhttps://www.jacksoncountycombat.com/1113/Facts-Stats-Counties-With-Highest-Firear

Flint, Michigan, used to be the highest with 65 per 100,000.

 

[KevinB]

Just because handgun hunting is popular doesn’t mean it is really affected by a registry. Your not defending yourself with a handgun against the government. Long guns are a whole different story, but a simple registry on handguns only would over time reduce the handguns available to criminals.

Most firearm related crimes are committed with handguns due to their conceivability. They are also the least practical firearm for anything other than point blank range defence, as the saying goes it exists to give you time to get to your rifle. Yes you can hunt with it but it isn’t particularly practical. The people who do so do it for a challenge.

I am pretty pro-firearm ownership, I own many handguns and rifles. A handgun registry is also one of the few tools which actually works in stopping strawbuying. Canada had one or two idiots who tried to buy legal handguns and sell them to criminals, they got caught pretty quickly.

This would prevent felons from acquiring handguns and prevent gun stores from selling to them or their intermediaries. It would also have the knock on effect of reducing handguns available for gangs in Canada and other countries. Yes there will always be some unregistered handguns in the States (there is in Canada still), but it would be a constantly decreasing number of increasingly obsolescent firearms.

A handgun is actually a very valuable tool for insurgents. It is small enough to conceal to be in place to use it so you can get you a long gun…

Realistically a Federal Registry will never fly. It’s too much overreach on one side, and not enough on another.

We already have 4473’s that log all gun sales from an FFL.

Once you have a firearm that you’ve done a 4473 on, you had better know where it is.

ATF can inspect the 4473 logs (most are electronic) and in several states (like VA) all sales also need to go through the State Police, so there is a defacto registry in a lot of states.

While it is possible in some states to still sell personal firearms at gun shows without an FFL, those are getting fewer and fewer.


The issue for a lot of illegal firearms is that criminals get their girlfriends etc to buy guns for them. A registry doesn’t stop that, and if you subscribe to the ATF various field office new bulletins, you see a lot of people are arrested weekly for straw purchases. The issue is they are rarely prosecuted fully, and I’ve see a few names multiple times a year // which means they have done the same thing over and over without any significant punishment.

 

[Eaglelord17]

A handgun is actually a very valuable tool for insurgents. It is small enough to conceal to be in place to use it so you can get you a long gun…

Realistically a Federal Registry will never fly. It’s too much overreach on one side, and not enough on another.

We already have 4473’s that log all gun sales from an FFL.

Once you have a firearm that you’ve done a 4473 on, you had better know where it is.

ATF can inspect the 4473 logs (most are electronic) and in several states (like VA) all sales also need to go through the State Police, so there is a defacto registry in a lot of states.

While it is possible in some states to still sell personal firearms at gun shows without an FFL, those are getting fewer and fewer.


The issue for a lot of illegal firearms is that criminals get their girlfriends etc to buy guns for them. A registry doesn’t stop that, and if you subscribe to the ATF various field office new bulletins, you see a lot of people are arrested weekly for straw purchases. The issue is they are rarely prosecuted fully, and I’ve see a few names multiple times a year // which means they have done the same thing over and over without any significant punishment.

What the registry does is as in your example the girlfriend who bought the pistol has it tied directly to her name. If it turns up somewhere else without being reported stolen you better have some good answers. It can also raise some serious redflags such as individuals buying 20 9mm hi-point pistols in one go.

I agree that it likely wouldn’t fly in the US, but it is also likely the strongest tool to reducing the proliferation of illegal handguns in civilian hands globally without actually doing anything to prevent legal owners from acquiring them in the US.

 

[KevinB]

That is exactly what the 4473 does. Each firearm is listed on that form with the buyers information.
The issue is it isn’t being prosecuted.