The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Lumber]

Sure it does. If you support this move by the sitting Gov you are a-ok with criminalizing otherwise law abiding and taxpaying Canadians. Not to mention removal of private property. Its exactly by design. Divide us.

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No Tar, it fucking does not!

The new law doesn't automatically make law abiding gun owners criminals. Gun owners wouldn't become criminals unless they chose to break the new law. What you're implying is that these 26% of Ontarians HOPE they chose to break the law and become criminals.

First off, the data does not say that, nor can you logically make that inference, and second, how can you possibly believe that close to 4 millions Ontarians are right now looking at gun owners and saying to themselves (and to these surveyors, apparently) "those people should all be criminals!" just because they own guns and have otherwise haven't broken any laws.

Just because you don't like the new law (neither do I) but some people do, doesn't mean you can just make up out of thin air that the supporters of the law think you should be a criminal.

Imagine the government making a law that bans 1000cc motorcycles because they are deamed too dangerous and unnecessary. The government gives owners of their bikes a year to turn them in (with a buy back program) or "deactivate" them. They do a survey and ask the public if they think this program would improve road safety. 26% of responds say "yea, I think that WOULD improve road safety". Does that mean that those 26% of respondents believe that "owners of 1000cc motorcycle should be criminals!". No, it does not. Claiming so is fucking assinine.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No Tar, it fucking does not!

The new law doesn't automatically make law abiding gun owners criminals. Gun owners wouldn't become criminals unless they chose to break the new law. What you're implying is that these 26% of Ontarians HOPE they chose to break the law and become criminals.

First off, the data does not say that, nor can you logically make that inference, and second, how can you possibly believe that close to 4 millions Ontarians are right now looking at gun owners and saying to themselves (and to these surveyors, apparently) "those people should all be criminals!" just because they own guns and have otherwise haven't broken any laws.

Just because you don't like the new law (neither do I) but some people do, doesn't mean you can just make up out of thin air that the supporters of the law think you should be a criminal.

Imagine the government making a law that bans 1000cc motorcycles because they are deamed too dangerous and unnecessary. The government gives owners of their bikes a year to turn them in (with a buy back program) or "deactivate" them. They do a survey and ask the public if they think this program would improve road safety. 26% of responds say "yea, I think that WOULD improve road safety". Does that mean that those 26% of respondents believe that "owners of 1000cc motorcycle should be criminals!". No, it does not. Claiming so is fucking assinine.

Can you maintain your composure ?

Sure they do. I think Poly, the LPC and those 26% of Ontarians would like nothing better than mass noncompliance. It would be the excuse they have been looking for. I expect they would cheer as SWAT bangs down my door and injures or kills me. We are the others. To be punished.

I don't wish this on them. I wish them peace and happiness. I just wish the felt the same for me.

Just like at the CRCN townhall yesterday, I don't feel welcome here anymore.

 

[The Bread Guy]

They hate us.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2014304620198199498

One in four think the fed plan will keep them safer than the TPS approach, but that =/= respondents hating responsible gun owners (unless Leger asked that question).

What jumps out at me is almost 1/3 aren’t sure which approach is best. If it truly applies across the board, THAT’S a crack that could be taken advantage of re: public education - by one side or the other.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Just like at the CRCN townhall yesterday, I don't feel welcome here ananymore.

What happened there?

 

[Deleted member 175000]

I think Poly, the LPC and those 26% of Ontarians would like nothing better than mass noncompliance.

Interesting thought. Maybe worth red teaming.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Can you maintain your composure ?

Sure they do. I think Poly, the LPC and those 26% of Ontarians would like nothing better than mass noncompliance. It would be the excuse they have been looking for. I expect they would cheer as SWAT bangs down my door and injures or kills me. We are the others. To be punished.

I don't wish this on them. I wish them peace and happiness. I just wish the felt the same for me.

Just like at the CRCN townhall yesterday, I don't feel welcome here anymore.

We saw that during COVID.

As for the townhall, was it the usual "you're all the problem here!" spiel!

 

[Halifax Tar]

We saw that during COVID.

As for the townhall, was it the usual "you're all the problem here!" spiel!

Typical NWOs and their views on Logistics/Sustainment.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Interesting thought. Maybe worth red teaming.

Life would be so much easier if gun owners just turn in all their property without guaranteed compensation. Do it for the safety of the children.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Life would be so much easier if gun owners just turn in all their property without guaranteed compensation. Do it for the safety of the children.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Typical NWO and their views on Logistics/Sustainment.

They have views on Logistics and Sustainment?

I found a picture of NWOs conducting a Rehearsal of Concept (ROC) drill for a storing ship evolution:

 

[Lumber]

Can you maintain your composure ?

Sure they do. I think Poly, the LPC and those 26% of Ontarians would like nothing better than mass noncompliance. It would be the excuse they have been looking for. I expect they would cheer as SWAT bangs down my door and injures or kills me. We are the others. To be punished.

I don't wish this on them. I wish them peace and happiness. I just wish the felt the same for me.

Just like at the CRCN townhall yesterday, I don't feel welcome here anymore.

The moment we answer being unfairly lumped together by lumping others together, we’ve lost the moral high ground. That kind of thinking doesn’t protect us, it corrodes the conversation and makes real understanding impossible.

Societal fractures start when we treat groups as monoliths. Some anti-gun people may hold extreme views about gun owners, but assuming all of them do is the same lazy thinking you’re objecting to. You don’t fix stereotyping by stereotyping back.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

No Tar, it fucking does not!

The new law doesn't automatically make law abiding gun owners criminals. Gun owners wouldn't become criminals unless they chose to break the new law. What you're implying is that these 26% of Ontarians HOPE they chose to break the law and become criminals.

First off, the data does not say that, nor can you logically make that inference, and second, how can you possibly believe that close to 4 millions Ontarians are right now looking at gun owners and saying to themselves (and to these surveyors, apparently) "those people should all be criminals!" just because they own guns and have otherwise haven't broken any laws.

Just because you don't like the new law (neither do I) but some people do, doesn't mean you can just make up out of thin air that the supporters of the law think you should be a criminal.

Imagine the government making a law that bans 1000cc motorcycles because they are deamed too dangerous and unnecessary. The government gives owners of their bikes a year to turn them in (with a buy back program) or "deactivate" them. They do a survey and ask the public if they think this program would improve road safety. 26% of responds say "yea, I think that WOULD improve road safety". Does that mean that those 26% of respondents believe that "owners of 1000cc motorcycle should be criminals!". No, it does not. Claiming so is fucking assinine.

They are pushing otherwise law-abiding citizens into being criminals and many have had enough and will choose to be one. How is that helping Canada to become a better place?

 

[suffolkowner]

Poly is losing it online right now. If Ford and the OPP come out as not subsidizing the confiscation it could be over

 

[Deleted member 175000]

Life would be so much easier if gun owners just turn in all their property without guaranteed compensation. Do it for the safety of the children.

No. Life might be harder for the people trying to take your property if you don't act how they want you to act.

Hopefully Ford is the straw that breaks it and it dies here and now. By all means wait that out. But if not and they press ahead

maybe, maybe, mass non-compliance leads to them seeing the error in their ways and completely reversing course, extending amnesty again etc. despite having not done so yet, having had every reason to. Wanna bet on that?

More likely they wash their hands of the issue and leave y'all to stew until Oct 31st to decide whether to destroy your property for nothing or cede the title of of "law abiding gun owner." Then they decide how to follow up. Maybe they put the blinders on and only act if and when someone is unlucky and/or does something stupid to advertise their status. Maybe they task an RCMP group with pulling on the threads available to them and investigating to find the guns. Who knows. Either way they've successfully passed on the onus to you. YOU have to destroy it, or not. THEY just drive on with the ban still in place.


Mass registration? It keeps the onus squarely on THEM. THEY have to justify underfunding the compensation program - with a minority government. THEY have to figure out how to actually confiscate the guns WITHOUT the support of the provinces or police- with a minority government. Mass compliance doesn't "turn in" the guns with click of hundreds of thousands of buttons, it creates an obligation for the government to figure out how to implement. How are they going to do it at all, let alone by Oct 31? It prevents them from sitting back smuggly while you all struggle with sophies choice and forces them to confront the abject stupidity of the program rather than their current plan of brazening through and passing the buck.

 

[Jarnhamar]

it creates an obligation for the government to figure out how to implement. How are they going to do it at all, let alone by Oct 31?

An obligation? What? Just erase 2026 and type 2027. The Liberal party has been doing that since 2020 lol

 

[Deleted member 175000]

An obligation? What? Just erase 2026 and type 2027. The Liberal party has been doing that since 2020 lol

Yup, typing 2027 because they can't meet the timeline definitely physically collects and destroys hundreds of thousands/ millions of guns and doesn't leave said non-destroyed guns in the hands of their non-criminalized owners past the current deadline.

 

[foresterab]

To be clear I hate the current classification and especially the way the gun control mandate is going on. While I'm not personally affected by the rule changes I'm close and most friends are.

But I often think of a program I was told about in Australia - voluntary compensation.

As I understand it they had a program where any individual could call a police station up and make arrangements for dropping off firearms for disposal.

Individual would show up and be compensated depending upon the type of firearm - normal shotgun got X, hunting rifle Y, handgun got Z. Unregistered and illegal firearms got a premium.

Every firearm turned, that was safe to do so, was fired for ballistic records especially the unregistered/illegal types.

But most importantly...no details and charges could be pressed for turning the firearm in. Cash payment paid, focused upon those firearms most desired in criminal acts (i.e. unregistered/illegal guns), and accountability for cross referencing past crime files.

Minimal new oversight required with an outlet to allow firearms to come in off the street. They had quite a few stories of grandpa's machine guns and other items brought back from the wars turned in but the price was high enough it was removing alot of the "cheap" handguns from the streets.

Unfortunately until we either have a set of rule changes to better address gun smuggling and/or use of a firearm in a crime it's too easy to all the anti-gun crowd to claim ALL guns are bad. And until there are results shown to address the illegal side of usage all law abiding users are going to be tarred with the same fears.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yup, typing 2027 because they can't meet the timeline definitely physically collects and destroys hundreds of thousands/ millions of guns and doesn't leave said non-destroyed guns in the hands of their non-criminalized owners past the current deadline.

Despite abysmal turn out, Liberals will declare a resounding victory and move on from this.
Minister of public safety was pretty clear that Carney doesn't want to deal with this bullshit anymore. They found a way to fuck around gun owners for compensation, then found a way to really fuck around gun owners for compensation.

It's clear non-compliance is a Liberal goal. It's also a present for future Liberal parties to pull out and squeeze.

Liberal voters should be proud how clever Carney is being on this file.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The moment we answer being unfairly lumped together by lumping others together, we’ve lost the moral high ground. That kind of thinking doesn’t protect us, it corrodes the conversation and makes real understanding impossible.

Societal fractures start when we treat groups as monoliths. Some anti-gun people may hold extreme views about gun owners, but assuming all of them do is the same lazy thinking you’re objecting to. You don’t fix stereotyping by stereotyping back.

I disagree.

I'm not trying to impose any thoughts, beliefs or political stance on anyone. I'm not advocating for taking away peoples property. I'm not advocating that people should own particular property.

And I'm not not advocating for the legislative creation of criminals out of otherwise upstanding Canadians.

I'm not lumping anyone together. I simply feel less welcome in my own country. A country I have served faithfully for 25 years.

I know this isn't the end. Next will be our bolt and pump guns. This is an attack on a group of Canadians because of political wrong think, and vote generation. It's divisive and a rot in our country.

 

[Deleted member 175000]

Despite abysmal turn out, Liberals will declare a resounding victory and move on from this.

A victory taken from their grasp and replaced with a problem by a turn out they have no plan or capacity to handle.

Minister of public safety was pretty clear that Carney doesn't want to deal with this bullshit anymore.

Yes I said that. So make him.

It's clear non-compliance is a Liberal goal. It's also a present for future Liberal parties to pull out and squeeze.

Yes I said that too. My heresy is pointing out that not giving them what they want makes things harder for them.