The Great Gun Control Debate- 2.0

[Halifax Tar]

If that's the plan the best COA is to register and force the underfunding right out into the open. Call the bluff.

A- you can't make a claim on a class action without attesting to ownership of the impacted property, and specifying what said property is - so pursuit of the class action effectively supplies the government with a registry anyway

B- After October 30th, unless the guns from said claim have already been surrendered or destroyed with a receipt, making the claim is essentially an invitation to be charged with illegally possessing a prohibited firearm

They have to know what you have. Don't give the police a reason to come into your house and your chances are good that you will be fine.

 

[Deleted member 175000]

Destroy the property in October, with recording and then sue for the value of the property. I still have the receipts for the property.

It only works if they ran out of money and closed the program well before the deadline and/or directly denied you compensation. Otherwise they can shrug and say "EL17 had their chance and chose not to participate" and a judge will throw it out.

"I didn't want to give those bastards the satisfaction and risk losing it for nothing if there wasn't enough money so I made the conscious decision to destroy it and for sure not get compensation but now I demand compensation" isn't going to fly.

 

[Eaglelord17]

It only works if they ran out of money and closed the program well before the deadline and/or directly denied you compensation. Otherwise they can shrug and say "EL17 had their chance and chose not to participate" and a judge will throw it out.

Considering they are starting by saying they refuse to offer any money for AR-15 uppers right there is the case being heard. You also can’t negotiate based on duress which saying there is ‘limited funds’ and ‘first come first serve’ is. They have a legal obligation to pay fair value, they can’t escape that.

Secondly I have the right to fair value for the items not arbitrary values put forth by the government. Their values are arbitrary and not reflective of the exact value of my property.

 

[Deleted member 175000]

Considering they are starting by saying they refuse to offer any money for AR-15 uppers right there is the case being heard. You also can’t negotiate based on duress which saying there is ‘limited funds’ and ‘first come first serve’ is. They have a legal obligation to pay fair value, they can’t escape that.

They will if the sign up period ends and they reimburse everyone that registered and still have a large amount of the funding left over.

You're premise is on exceptionally weak ground to begin on vis et vis conflating Police Powers with expropriation. Having elected to not participate in an available compensation program that (hypothetically) had funding left to pay you renders it DOA.

Secondly I have the right to fair value for the items not arbitrary values put forth by the government. Their values are arbitrary and not reflective of the exact value of my property.

That action, and the that of the uppers should have been commenced the day those lists/decisions came out.

 

[Haggis]

Secondly I have the right to fair value for the items not arbitrary values put forth by the government. Their values are arbitrary and not reflective of the exact value of my property.

Your now prohibited firearms cannot be sold or exported except under very narrow conditions. They have no monetary value and that's what they will pay for them, nothing. That was the plan all along, despite the government's messaging to the contrary.

 

[Jarnhamar]

They will if the sign up period ends and they reimburse everyone that registered and still have a large amount of the funding left over.

Regardless if money might be left over, there was no guarantee from the start anyone would be paid, read through the wording of the whole program. Even if you signed up within the first hour, you weren't 100% assured to receive money.

It's basically a lottery.

 

[Deleted member 175000]

Regardless if money might be left over, there was no guarantee from the start anyone would be paid, read through the wording of the whole program. Even if you signed up within the first hour, you weren't 100% assured to receive money.

It's basically a lottery.

One that they are sure to get away with if it's not maxed out and people aren't actually denied.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Your now prohibited firearms cannot be sold or exported except under very narrow conditions. They have no monetary value and that's what they will pay for them, nothing. That was the plan all along, despite the government's messaging to the contrary.

I bet if Trump informs Americans he's decided he will run for a 3rd and 4th term, and crime in Canada such as home break ins skyrocket, those firearms and ammo will be worth something to some Canadians.

 

[Jarnhamar]

One that they are sure to get away with if it's not maxed out and people aren't actually denied.

What a government to support and vote for eh?

 

[Haggis]

It's basically a lottery.

Where nobody wins except the Liberals.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Where nobody wins except the Liberals.

Gun owners who feel the Liberal government is satiated probably think they've won too.

 

[OldSolduer]

Regardless if money might be left over, there was no guarantee from the start anyone would be paid, read through the wording of the whole program. Even if you signed up within the first hour, you weren't 100% assured to receive money.

It's basically a lottery.

I think none of you will get a dime. I think any payment will be obstructed by "process" and now they know you had a firearm they didn't like.

 

[Eaglelord17]

They will if the sign up period ends and they reimburse everyone that registered and still have a large amount of the funding left over.

You're premise is on exceptionally weak ground to begin on vis et vis conflating Police Powers with expropriation. Having elected to not participate in an available compensation program that (hypothetically) had funding left to pay you renders it DOA.


That action, and the that of the uppers should have been commenced the day those lists/decisions came out.

We literally had to pay slave owners for the value of their ‘property’ when slavery was ended. It is a legal obligation, property rights are enshrined in law. The Canadian bill of rights, it being a pre-1867 right, and common-law requiring fair value for property.

Considering I have not yet received the damages for said property, I don’t have to sue yet for said damages. Until I am legally required to get rid of said property I will hold it. Until that point I have not received damages.

You can’t arbitrarily state how much you will or will not pay, that is not how expropriating works. You can’t start with a inherently flawed process (which limited funds and first come first served is) for removing property.

If the process was guaranteed to be 100% funded no matter what there is more of a leg for the government to stand on, but denying fair compensation without the courts only leaves the courts as the remedy.

Your now prohibited firearms cannot be sold or exported except under very narrow conditions. They have no monetary value and that's what they will pay for them, nothing. That was the plan all along, despite the government's messaging to the contrary.

It has no monetary value directly due to their actions. Either way, they will pay more in court costs than it will cost me in property value. If I win in court then even better.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Your now prohibited firearms cannot be sold or exported except under very narrow conditions. They have no monetary value and that's what they will pay for them, nothing. That was the plan all along, despite the government's messaging to the contrary.

My understanding is they can be exported, thinking of giving a couple to my US son inlaw?

 

[Eaglelord17]

My understanding is they can be exported, thinking of giving a couple to my US son inlaw?

Requirements for exporting prohibited firearms

The Export and Import Permits Act (EIPA) places strict controls on the export of prohibited firearms and their specially designed components or parts and other weapons and devices. Under the Act, these items may only be exported from Canada to countries on the Automatic Firearms Country Control...

www.international.gc.ca

Basically even if the US was to allow it into country you need a exporter with the proper licences, a importer with the proper US licences and approval of the export.

Pretty much they have made it a non-starter.

 

[Haggis]

Requirements for exporting prohibited firearms

The Export and Import Permits Act (EIPA) places strict controls on the export of prohibited firearms and their specially designed components or parts and other weapons and devices. Under the Act, these items may only be exported from Canada to countries on the Automatic Firearms Country Control...

www.international.gc.ca

Basically even if the US was to allow it into country you need a exporter with the proper licences, a importer with the proper US licences and approval of the export.

Pretty much they have made it a non-starter.

This, plus my understanding from a briefing a couple of years ago was that any firearm permanently exported from the US cannot be re-imported back to the US. Their rules. There are always exceptions, of course. Maybe @KevinB can weigh in.

 

[Eaglelord17]

This, plus my understanding from a briefing a couple of years ago was that any firearm permanently exported from the US cannot be re-imported back to the US. Their rules. There are always exceptions, of course. Maybe @KevinB can weigh in.

Depends on the firearm. Anything that was once US property is a no go without act of congress (such as M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, etc.). Not to mention there is all sorts of rules on what is allowed in ranging from physical characteristics (say AR-15s) to country of origin (Chinese and Russian stuff are no gos).

There is things banned which could have gone into the US provided we didn’t have ridiculous export laws. Say AG-42b’s or many of the single shot hunting rifles. That being said because of the export rules Canada has put in that is basically impossible.

 

[KevinB]

This, plus my understanding from a briefing a couple of years ago was that any firearm permanently exported from the US cannot be re-imported back to the US. Their rules. There are always exceptions, of course. Maybe @KevinB can weigh in.

US made firearms can be re-imported provided they meet certain eligibility requirements.
Cannot be a Lend Lease item (I ran into that with my 1943 Ithaca 1911A1 in Iraq) as the USG views them still as theirs.
Cannot be an automatic, (or CA - as we don't have CA laws here, we use once a MG, always a MG).
*certain exemptions exist - but not for individuals.
Cannot have any foreign parts installed (TBH not sure how they check that).
Foreign made firearms imported into the US, then exported from the US to a 3rd party cannot be re-imported (unless it's a curio/relic and importer needs to be a Museum or similar)

Foreign Made firearms imported into Canada direct - fall under the 1989 Import Ban, so pretty much a no go, unless they are bolt action rifles, or pump shotguns. Pistols have a lot of issues - requiring "target sights" and some other stuff, that I don't recall OTTOMH

Even if some firearms are legal to import, it is however a PITA, I ended up selling most of my collection in Canada rather than importing it, as the costs made it easier to buy new down here. OFC now most of that stuff would be prohibited up there -- so YMMV.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Wonder if I send my DPMS AR to a FFL dealer in the US, my son-inlaw could then get it from them as soon as he passes the checks?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Requirements for exporting prohibited firearms

The Export and Import Permits Act (EIPA) places strict controls on the export of prohibited firearms and their specially designed components or parts and other weapons and devices. Under the Act, these items may only be exported from Canada to countries on the Automatic Firearms Country Control...

www.international.gc.ca

Basically even if the US was to allow it into country you need a exporter with the proper licences, a importer with the proper US licences and approval of the export.

Pretty much they have made it a non-starter.

IRUNGUNS can both import and export. They do all the paperwork. Some caveats apply re: Chinese and Russian firearms, etc.

I Run Guns

importing into the CANADA importing into US

www.irunguns.ca