The Great Gun Control Debate

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile, from the "NDP is all about democracy and free votes" file.....

Two Thunder Bay-area New Democratic Party MPs have been punished for voting in favour of the abolition of the long-gun registry.

Thunder Bay-Superior North MP Bruce Hyer and Thunder Bay-Rainy River MP John Rafferty will not be allowed to make statements or ask questions in the Commons chamber.

They were also removed from their critics' roles.

(....)

The two went against the NDP's official position and voted with the government this week during the second reading of the bill to abolish the controversial long-gun registry.

Jack Harris, the NDP's justice critic, said Rafferty and Hyer had been warned they would suffer "the consequences" if they broke ranks.

(....)

CBC.ca, 3 Nov 11

Following a new leader being chosen, one of the MP's mentioned above is now sitting as an independent:

Bruce Hyer is dropping his caucus affiliation with the New Democratic Party to sit as an Independent in Parliament.

“I was honoured when the voters of Thunder Bay-Superior North chose me to be their voice in the House of Commons. I committed to them to be honest, open, and accessible, and to keep my campaign promises.” said Hyer in Parliament. “I have much respect for most Members in this House. But our three main parties require lockstep discipline, with little room for meaningful public debate... or for putting constituents ahead of party politics.”

“Instead of cooperation and compromise, voters often see mindless solidarity, where political parties are always right and voters are always wrong. One example is the long gun registry, where there has been no real compromise at all. Mr. Mulcair has made it clear he will bring back the long gun registry, and will use the whip. I am also concerned that Mr. Mulcair does not seem willing to co-operate with other parties on important issues. And on climate change, parties are hopelessly locked to Cap & Trade or outright inaction, making compromise to achieve even piecemeal progress impossible.”

First elected in 2008, Hyer was left out the NDP shadow cabinet announcement last week. “One of the jobs of any new Leader is to unite their party, and there are different ways to do that. Being excluded from any position was a clear message that my constituents will be muzzled.”

“As an Independent voice, I will better be able to represent my constituents in Parliament. I will focus on doing what I have worked hard to do for over three years: Help the people being mistreated by federal agencies like CRA or EI. Work with all parties or MPs when possible to make Parliament work. And speak up inside and outside the House for issues important for Northwestern Ontario, and Canada.” Hyer concluded.

Bruce Hyer's (still orange for now) web page, 23 Apr 12

 

[my72jeep]

This one has me wondering? Did I miss a section last time I read it?

Shared with the usual caveats:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/toronto-12-old-brought-loaded-gun-school-172642450.html

Possession of a firearm.


Possession of ammunition.

Careless storage of a firearm.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This one has me wondering? Did I miss a section last time I read it?

Shared with the usual caveats:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/toronto-12-old-brought-loaded-gun-school-172642450.html

Possession of a firearm.


Possession of ammunition.

Careless storage of a firearm.

You can't, legally, aquire ammunition without a PAL.

 

[my72jeep]

So if I have ammo in the basement from 15 years ago when I had a gun, but got rid of because I did not want to go through the idiocy of a PAL/POL am I breaking the law?
This just for my info not to caause a issue.

 

[GAP]

Germany announces plans for gun registry
Article Link

Germany's parliament is establishing a weapons registry. The decision came on the tenth anniversary of a school massacre, but is part of an EU plan for Europe-wide gun registration.

On the morning of April 26, 2002, a 19-year-old who had been expelled from Gutenberg High School in the eastern German city of Erfurt began a deadly rampage. Over the course of two hours, he systematically stalked his former school's corridors and classrooms. The perpetrator killed 12 teachers, one secretary, one police officer and two students before taking his own life. Germany's first school shooting put the country into a state of shock, and triggered an earnest debate on how to toughen gun laws.

Exactly ten years after the massacre, Germany's lower house of parliament, the Bundestag, decided to establish a central weapons registry. It will gather information from the 600 offices that issue weapons permits throughout Germany in one place.

The Erfurt massacre was not in fact the main impetus for the registry. Rather, the Bundestag is aiming to follow a European Union directive calling for every member country to set up a computerized, constantly updated weapons register by 2014.

Germany was also influenced by another massacre. In 2009, a 17-year-old student went on a rampage in Winnenden, killing 16 people.

Better risk analysis

The registry is intended to make it easier for German authorities to get an overview of the roughly 10 million firearms in the hands of private owners. According to the draft of the Bundestag legislation, "the national arms register catalogs weapons as well as weapons permits, exemptions, orders, indemnification and personal prohibitions pertaining to weapons."

Germany's Federal Administration Office is charged with maintaining the registry, which is designed to be quickly available to authorities. The goal is to make it easier to determine whether or not weapons are legally possessed, and to help officials with risk analysis when emergencies come up.

"This brings about a new dimension," said German Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich. But he cautioned against expecting the registry to actually prevent another shooting rampage from taking place.
More on link

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm sure there's still plenty of people in that country that remember what happened the last time the government asked them to register their firearms. 

 

[my72jeep]

anzer: was it these guys?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

anzer: was it these guys?

Bingo. Once they had them registered, they confiscated them.

 

[Loachman]

I'm sure there's still plenty of people in that country that remember what happened the last time the government asked them to register their firearms. 

Unfortunately, very few of the original victims of that gun control measure survived its first decade.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You can't, legally, aquire ammunition without a PAL.

Much to the surprise of many a LEO when they are refused at the gun store.

 

[BernDawg]

So if I have ammo in the basement from 15 years ago when I had a gun, but got rid of because I did not want to go through the idiocy of a PAL/POL am I breaking the law?
This just for my info not to cause a issue.

Just off the top of my head, no. I don't believe it's illegal to posses ammunition. It's just that you cannot buy it without a PAL/POL.

 

[BernDawg]

This one has me wondering? Did I miss a section last time I read it?

Shared with the usual caveats:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/toronto-12-old-brought-loaded-gun-school-172642450.html

Possession of a firearm.


Possession of ammunition.

Careless storage of a firearm.

I believe under the Criminal Code that the possession of the Prohibited weapon is, of course, illegal and the possession of the ammuntion for said weapon is an add on charge. The article seems to have paraphrased a little in that regard. (like that ever happens ;-) )
The possession of ammunition itself is not illegal AFAIK.

109. (1) Where a person is convicted, or discharged under section 730, of

[...]

(b) an offence under subsection 85(1) (using firearm in commission of offence), subsection 85(2) (using imitation firearm in commission of offence), 95(1) (possession of prohibited or restricted firearm with ammunition), 99(1) (weapons trafficking), 100(1) (possession for purpose of weapons trafficking), 102(1) (making automatic firearm), 103(1) (importing or exporting knowing it is unauthorized) or section 264 (criminal harassment),

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Much to the surprise of many a LEO when they are refused at the gun store.

Yea,..OK.....

 

[cupper]

I believe under the Criminal Code that the possession of the Prohibited weapon is, of course, illegal and the possession of the ammuntion for said weapon is an add on charge. The article seems to have paraphrased a little in that regard. (like that ever happens ;-) )
The possession of ammunition itself is not illegal AFAIK.

109. (1) Where a person is convicted, or discharged under section 730, of

[...]

(b) an offence under subsection 85(1) (using firearm in commission of offence), subsection 85(2) (using imitation firearm in commission of offence), 95(1) (possession of prohibited or restricted firearm with ammunition), 99(1) (weapons trafficking), 100(1) (possession for purpose of weapons trafficking), 102(1) (making automatic firearm), 103(1) (importing or exporting knowing it is unauthorized) or section 264 (criminal harassment),

Unfortunately you selected an incorrect section of the Code. This section refers to persons who are subject to a prohibition order to possess firearms.

There is nothing in the Criminal Code that makes it illegal to possess ammunition, unless it is ammunition for a probhibited weapon.

 

[BernDawg]

Fair enough, it's the wrong section but we're still in agreement about the simple possession of ammunition.  :nod:

 

[Colin Parkinson]

2billion+ but they can't renew my long term ATT when they send me a new PAL to replace the expired one. Now I have to apply for another long term ATT.

 

[my72jeep]

There is nothing in the Criminal Code that makes it illegal to possess ammunition, unless it is ammunition for a prohibited weapon.

OK now with that statement you say that 38 special ammo is illegal to possess! I have like many other a short barreled revolver that is prohibited. it uses the same ammo as a long barreled relover that is not prohibited.

 

[cupper]

OK now with that statement you say that 38 special ammo is illegal to possess! I have like many other a short barreled revolver that is prohibited. it uses the same ammo as a long barreled relover that is not prohibited.

Let me rephrase.... it should have read "prohibited ammunition", not "ammunition for a prohibited weapon".

My apologies if anyone was mislead by my error. :sorry:

 

[my72jeep]

Let me rephrase.... it should have read "prohibited ammunition", not "ammunition for a prohibited weapon".

My apologies if anyone was mislead by my error. :sorry:

All is forgiven.

 

[BernDawg]

I can understand a retailer keeping a ledger of their sales however I don't see why they have to record anything but the PAL # associated with the sale. Once the police have the PAL# they have all the other information anyway.