The Great Gun Control Debate

[Garry]

A thought: we‘re all talking about "reasonable". Define reasonable. I guarantee that not all will agree.

We cannot legislate common sense, nor can we legislate inanimate objects into compliance with out version of good and evil.

We can legislate behaviour.

I think that there should be NO gun laws. You want to carry a gun? Fine. Act stupid, and you‘re gone. Personal responsibility.

Kinda tough in a welfare state, but an idea.....

Cheers-Garry

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

And put thousands of otherwise useless leeches of society that lawyers are out of work and mingling with real people? C‘mon Garry, there is an entire sub culture dedicated to keeping people free from personal responsability. Blame McDonalds for being fat, blame your boss because you drank too much at the office party ignoring offers to call a cab and hit and killed someone on the way home, blame mom/dad for being a low life criminal. If we could make it on our own without having "special interest groups" at every corner representing slackers then this personal responsability that you talk of could actually work.

 

[matt wright]

Portcullisguy;

My whole intent here was to add another perspective to further stimulate this thread, and it appears I succeeded.

One point I was getting at was that an experienced police officer will use every piece of information he can get his hands on when performing a risk assessment or conducting an investigation, and hopefully will not make too many assumptions. Of course I will trust my own observations over computer information which may or may not be accurate (garbage in, garbage out). But you would not believe how many bone-headed people out there do not have their serial numbers recorded or memorized (I realize this is an almost incomprehensible concept to any disciplined soldier). Anyway, I realize there are plenty of flaws with the system, and i agree the money could be much better spent in other areas.

On a side note, the vast majority of firearms that I encounter which have been used in a crime actually started out as long-barrelled firearms. Sawed-off shotguns and .22 cal rifles are by far the most popular.

Garry;

Sorry to hear about the individual who lost his guns, but without knowing all the facts I can‘t really comment. however, police do still require a warrant to search in most cases, unless there are "exigent circumstances", ie, immediate threat to public safety.

 

[Garry]

Recce,

Not your fault! ...but thanks, it was a little upsetting to all, this is a small community.

No matter what the trade, there will be a range of competence and professionalism. So far, the vast majority of Cops I‘ve dealt with have been pretty good.

I think the biggest thing here to note is that Cops enforce the laws that we, as a society, ask them to. I think everyone‘s day would be a little easier if we made things crystal clear.

Cheers-Garry

 

[tmbluesbflat]

The gun registry, has to be a scam nobody but nobody is so stupid that they waste a billion dollars on this insanity, unless of course they have their hand in the till, when a very reliable workable system has been in place for 70 or more years. If it ain‘t broke keep your hands off! Recently here in B. C. I understand some gunsel got probation for waving his weapon about, there are people doing hard time for flashing the real McCoy, go figure!

 

[tmbluesbflat]

One reason the American people are so rabid about gun control etc, is that they know the treachery of their government adequately demonstrated over their history, and they know better than to trust politicians etc. past a certain point. We in Canada are not nearly as familiar with the things our Gov. is capable of and has done. We have many more recent immigrants per capita than the U.S. and these people have had dramatic experiences with weapons, many of them having lost most of their families in this generation also an experience most of us have not had. There is no excuse however for the conduct of this program it is and it has and it will be a criminal enterprise. We should set up a lottery to see what the final cost comes in at. I‘m thinking about 3billion. (and it won‘t work)

 

[Enzo]

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/02/13/gunregistry_rdi040213

Gimme a break, and yet we can't afford to upgrade our tanks for example...

I'm not even going to go near the costs to maintain our bloody Senators for example.

Canada's controversial gun registry is costing taxpayers far more than previously reported, CBC News has learned.


Nearly $2 billion has either been spent on or committed to the federal program since it was introduced in the mid-1990s, according to documents obtained by Zone Libre of CBC's French news service.
 

The figure is roughly twice as much as an official government estimate that caused an uproar across the country.

The gun registry was originally supposed to cost less than $2 million. In December 2002, Auditor General Sheila Fraser revealed that the program would run up bills of at least $1 billion by 2005.

But the calculations remained incomplete, so CBC News obtained documents through the Access to Information Act and crunched the numbers.

A large part of the $2 billion expense is a computer system that's supposed to track registered guns, according to one document. Officials initially estimated it would cost about $1 million. Expenses now hover close to $750 million and the electronic system is still not fully operational.

Other errors and unforeseen expenses include $8 million in refunds to people who registered their guns, and millions more in legal fees that mounted during court challenges.

A spokesperson for the Coalition for Gun Control disputed Zone Libre's calculations, calling the $2 billion figure inaccurate.

The auditor general has pledged to re-examine the gun registry to come up with an updated assessment. Last month, Prime Minister Paul Martin rejected calls to scrap the program. But he said the government intends to review the way it's being run and is prepared to make changes.

 

[Slim]

You know...I‘m proud as **** to live in the greatest country in the world...And then I read something like that.

Our leaders are f#@ked.

With all of the problems our country has, these clowns spend 2 BILLION on gun control and start fights over the Conan O‘Brian Quebec comments. For Heavens sake the man is a comedian...He‘s supposed to say stuff like that.

Why do we put up with an immature government that acts in an irresponsible and childish way every chance it gets?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Slim, get your facts straight - the furor was not over what Conan said (though he made a comment or two as well), but in what a sock puppet said.

Yes, a sock puppet. A sock puppet from the US speaking with a foreign accent may very well be the instrument via which Canadian Confederation is unravelled.

And ironically, it will be 1 million Canadian dollars that funds it.

 

[Duotone81]

Yes, a sock puppet. A sock puppet from the US speaking with a foreign accent may very well be the instrument via which Canadian Confederation is unravelled.

Are you suggesting that this whole fiasco will spark another separatist movement? I think the whole point was for the sake of comedy and Americans have a natural tendency to equate French-Canadians to the citizens of France which would explain why the Quebecers would be the punchline. Tasteless none the less however. What do they say about comedy which insults the audience? It‘s the lowest form of comedy? IMO I don‘t think Quebec will entertain any serious notions of seceding on account of some name calling by foreigners.

 

[muskrat89]

I think Michael was being facetious

 

[nbk]

Originally posted by Duotone81:
[qb] I think the whole point was for the sake of comedy and Americans have a natural tendency to equate French-Canadians to the citizens of France which would explain why the Quebecers would be the punchline. [/qb]

Exactly. Iwonder how many of these people actually stayed up to 1 am and actually say the sketch, as opposed to how many of them jus theard about it, without realize the whole joke.

Although he was making fun of the Quebecois, if you were to just view it as that, you would be missing the bigger joke.

The puppet was making a joke about the americans. He was being the stereotypical loud, ignorant and obnoxious american.

"You are in North America now, learn the language!"

That was never meant to be a serious comment, it was a joke on television, after most people had gone to bed. The joke was not being rude, the joke was him being blatantly obnoxious and rude. Over the top and excessively. That was the funny part.

It only makes people who got offended look bad, like they cant take a joke...

 

[SFontaine]

I love Conan. Watch him every night. I can‘t believe people are getting uppity over a joke he made. What did they expect him to come in an sing Canadas praises?
You don‘t see the American government getting upset over every little joke Canadian comedians make about htem.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

They would if they thought it could hurt their chance of re-election. ie [Liberal=Quebec=Seats‘o‘Plenty] I wish I had seen the show. I read a couple of the jokes and both myself and my French-Canadian wife thought they were funny.

 

[Enzo]

I‘ll give you that SF, anyone recall Mercer‘s trips to the US in the past? I seem to recall a moment w/ the Governor of Arkasas who happily wished Canadians the best of luck on our "peace dome" which we were going to build to protect our Parliament buildings in Ottawa from melting due to global warming primarily from American companies (Mercer told him that Parliament was made out of ice, great shot of them shaking hands )

Then there is the infamous moment w/ Dubya when he wasn‘t the "war president," greetings to "Prime Minister Poutine" anyone?

I‘ll grant the Yanks this, our man makes fools out of top government officials and they take it, a talking puppet (whom I enjoy immensly) shows up to have some fun and our "buzzkills" decide to make an issue out of this, I suppose the recent AG‘s report and the falling polls have nothing to do with this eh?

Politics and people with far too much time on their hands, whatever...

 

[Yes Man]

This gun law cr@p is crazy. Its getting to the point where they could just about buy every Canadian a gun, and scrap the program about knowing who has a gun.

I wish they would give me 2 billion dollars, I could have every gun in Canada checked in 6 month and be done with it.

 

[mattoigta]

Not that I agree with the people who got their panties in a bunch over Triumph the insult comic dog, the comparison to Rick Mercer is hardly the same, Rick just makes them seem dumb by finding ignorant people and exploiting them, whereas Triumph walks around purposely insulting people to their faces

 

[Enzo]

Scarlino - "Rick just makes them seem dumb by finding ignorant people and exploiting them"

Do you mean the people on the street, or the Governor‘s (including former Gov. Bush (TX)) who Mercer was always surprised to be allowed to have an iinterview with, and they spoke for themselves. Your words, ignorant people who he exploits Sorry, I love that.

Sure, "Triumph" hides behind a sock puppet and goes after people of opportunity, including celebrities. He is aggressive. Mercer is assumed to be a reporter from the CBC and asks questions in a playful manner and is surprised at some of the responses. The thing is, the politicians who speak with him are under that same assumption, what are they thinking when they answer questions of which they are uninformed? The result is humourous for us.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

I love mercer. Anybody who can make a politician look even MORE stupid (in a tasteful manner) is top notch in my books.

 

[tmbluesbflat]

I see my previous prediction of costs and effectiveness are extremely accurate giving the Auditor Generals report, closing on three billion as we speak, I never thought of myself as a conservative. Graft, you don‘t say!!!!