The Great Gun Control Debate

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Because guns tend to be much more effective at killing then knives.

WHAT????.....................Someone with any amount of training would have a much easier time taking out your family with a knife  than if he/she was carring a firearm in your house.

 

[Yrys]

WHAT????.....................Someone with any amount of training would have a much easier time taking out your family with a knife  than if he/she was carring a firearm in your house.

Civy question : if you're talking about the noise, wouldn't a "silencer" make the gun more effectif then the knife ?

 

[canadianblue]

Clocks ticking..........waiting.............waiting...........

Here you go.

All the discussion about various conditional restrictions misses some key points.
1) Even mentally ill people have a right to self defence.

The anti-gun lefties will tell you, "Well, why not just call the cops, they'll protect you." Let me ask you this: If the cops are to protect us from the criminals, who will protect us from the cops?

WHAT?.....................Someone with any amount of training would have a much easier time taking out your family with a knife  than if he/she was carring a firearm in your house.

I believe I read it in a medical journal, I'll attempt to find the link. However it found that shootings tended to be more fatal than knife attacks.

 

[canadianblue]

Bullshit. You took a hypothetical situation and tried to make him the actual player.

I wouldn't really be surprised especially with regards to some of the responses on here, especially with regards to comments aimed at members of the LE community stating that they are incompetant. The same thing happened in a thread on a seperate forum, so this really isn't much of a surprise.

0% faith in police competance; and

 

[QV]

Wes,

Here are your two answers.  Somehow I get the feeling people don't read the posts.  Yes I have a licence.   

And it will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens when some of this firearms stuff makes it to the Supreme Court of Canada.  Canadian judges also take into consideration rulings from the USA and vice versa. 


BTW, thanks for the range invite but I have my own collection.  I am also a member of a local range.  I am also a member of the National Firearms Association.  Maybe we can go together sometime?   8)

How many of you can say you are members of the National Firearms Association?

 

[QV]

Which would be truly frightning as they're both involved in law enforcement.

Actually recceguy, what is frightening is that there are people in the forces that believe they need to be able to carry a concealed weapon around anytime they want because of some deep rooted fear of society, the government or authorities.  That is truly scary and I wonder how a security clearance check has not picked that up. 

 

[QV]

WHAT????.....................Someone with any amount of training would have a much easier time taking out your family with a knife  than if he/she was carring a firearm in your house.

The saying "never bring a knife to a gun fight" comes to mind with that statement there Bruce.  If I was a betting man I would wager that the average person could take a life easier with a gun then with a knife. 

 

[Yrys]

  If I was a betting man I would wager that the average person could take a life easier with a gun then with a knife. 

I'm a civy that would make that bet to, it's seem "less personal" .

 

[QV]

I want to know why you consider this a personal attack? Do you believe all LEOs are infallable and know everything? It's a simple fact that neither you or the rest know it all, and many cases daily from around the country of cops making mistakes does make it abundantly clear. Get off your high horse, you are not any more special than the rest of us.

Good attempt to spin out of that sarcastic remark.  But to everyone else reading this you are only proving my point.  And BTW I guess YOU havn't read half my posts either because not once did I say that I or other LEOs know it all.  As a matter of fact I have said many times that I don't know it all.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Actually recceguy, what is frightening is that there are people in the forces that believe they need to be able to carry a concealed weapon around anytime they want because of some deep rooted fear of society, the government or authorities.   That is truly scary and I wonder how a security clearance check has not picked that up.  

Don't have any NEED whatsoever. Simply want to have the choice, if I choose. You seem to be the one with the NEED to colour us all as redneck psychopaths.


Pretty cheap shot, now your going for the good cop bad cop shit with veiled threats? Pretty childish, petty and vindictive. Not what I'd expect from a professional LEO, and a military one at that. Kind of makes everything you've had to say, good and bad to this point, very moot. I was enjoying our sparring, but you've just shown you're true colours and are no longer worth the time to read

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Good attempt to spin out of that sarcastic remark.  But to everyone else reading this you are only proving my point.  And BTW I guess YOU havn't read half my posts either because not once did I say that I or other LEOs know it all.  As a matter of fact I have said many times that I don't know it all.

Sorry the weight of the readers isn't with you at all on this one. You're the one that's spinning, and not very well either.

 

[QV]

What are you talking about?  Why do some of you guys always take a generalized statement as a personal insult?  Who do you think I was talking about there recceguy?  

 

[QV]

Don't get mad because I have pointed out that many of you have misinterpreted the law regarding seizing firearms.  I have not made any snide or abrasive comments on here yet, to any of you, despite myself being on the receiving end of sarcastic and inflammatory remarks. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

>All the discussion about various conditional restrictions misses some key points.
>1) Even mentally ill people have a right to self defence.

I thought that would grab your attention.  Try not to let your initial impression colour the fact that "mentally ill" covers a wide range of conditions which can range from rendering a person virtually non-functional to being entirely within the control of a rational adult.  The profound point here is that mental illness doesn't transfer to any one or several other people the moral authority to dictate limits on another person.  "It's for his own good" and "It's for my (our) safety" just don't cut it as excuses.

Given the mission creep of mental illness diagnosis criteria (mostly for the trivial reason of billing authority) and the much graver and apparently serious occasional attempts to associate certain political leanings with mental instability, I can only see the right to be armed as a greater necessity than ever.  There are plenty of "mainstream" groups whose motives and intentions are entirely bereft of any moral authority to grant them political power over others.

 

[Fry]

Wes,

How many of you can say you are members of the National Firearms Association?

I'm saving for a life membership with the NFA but am currently a member of the CSSA.

Actually recceguy, what is frightening is that there are people in the forces that believe they need to be able to carry a concealed weapon around anytime they want because of some deep rooted fear of society, the government or authorities.  That is truly scary and I wonder how a security clearance check has not picked that up. 

What are you talking about?  Why do you guys always take a generalized statement as a personal insult?  Who do you think I was talking about there recceguy? 

recceguy is for carrying concealed and is in the forces... prehaps it was aimed at him? Seemed like it.

The saying "never bring a knife to a gun fight" comes to mind with that statement there Bruce.  If I was a betting man I would wager that the average person could take a life easier with a gun then with a knife. 

You go into a home and shoot someone sleeping at night and the whole family is awake. You go in with a knife and it's dead silent. You can hit where you want as opposed to aiming and firing.

Good attempt to spin out of that sarcastic remark.  But to everyone else reading this you are only proving my point.  And BTW I guess YOU havn't read half my posts either because not once did I say that I or other LEOs know it all.  As a matter of fact I have said many times that I don't know it all.

You don't have to say it. You seem to have an illogical "beating around the bush" comment about every single arguement against your beloved firearms act and registry.

No one said LEO's know it all. We're all human. When LEO's make mistakes regarding other people's lives then it gets very serious. That's why it's discussed to a great extent.

Don't get mad because I have pointed out that many of you have misinterpreted the law regarding seizing firearms.  I have not made any snide or abrasive comments on here yet, to any of you, despite myself being on the receiving end of sarcastic and inflammatory remarks. 

When you make comments like you have, then expect some sarcasm back. None of us have misinterpreted the law regarding seizing. You wrongfully take and not provide compensation in return, is simply stealing. I won't get into the rest, it's already explained dozens of times over in this thread.

Well first of all, I said if he actually did let his kids play with firearms then I'd question his parenting skills. As for miscontruing people's posts, that never goes on here, as long as one is flowing with the current.

If you couldn't understand the context that the message was presented in, go back to grammar school... hell, go back to the womb, start over and relearn life.

No, we simply do not want to see a bunch of guns floating freely around. Since one suggestion was that people suffering from mental illness should also have firearms, I think we both can feel safe in knowing that CCW will never come. It seems to me that any opinion which goes against the current is considered trolling, especially when some members have suggested they need guns for protection from the police, or start delving into conspiracy theories which have little or no merit.

Neither do I. But guess what. The illegal ones ARE floating around. Still are, always have and always will. The registry has zero ties with illegal firearms and until they're confiscated and "allegedly" destroyed, then the criminal code and firearms act have zilch to do with them as well.

I don't think just anyone should be given a license to purchase... proper testing, courses and suitability checks/tests can be administered to screen applicants just as it is now with current licensing.

Not everyone who voices their opinion against what the majority wants is trolling. In my last few posts I've mentioned Wes and I'll mention him again. He's made it clear his reasons why he thinks CCW shouldn't be. He gave valid logical arguments against others. Yourself and QV come on here, toss around someone's post, come up with a pile of BS and then a fine topic is thrown off because neither of you can stay on track properly.

It seems to me that any opinion which goes against the current is considered trolling, especially when some members have suggested they need guns for protection from the police, or start delving into conspiracy theories which have little or no merit.

Who said they need gun for protection from the police? Here you go AGAIN. This is ridiculous. Your contribution to this thread is zilch. All you do is take what someone says, stretch it (or in this case make it up) and then try to start a flame war. You're doing a good job, but I've got a feeling if this keeps up, we'll be seeing the 'banned' icon come up a few times. Stay on track.

 

[QV]

Fry, I suggest you go back and re-read my posts.  Read them ten times if you have to, in order to understand them.  Then go back and read the section of the Firearms Act I quoted and read that ten times if you have to, then go and read S. 117.04 of the CCC and read that ten times if you have to.   


I can't believe you would even post this, now that is scary:

You go into a home and shoot someone sleeping at night and the whole family is awake. You go in with a knife and it's dead silent. You can hit where you want as opposed to aiming and firing.

And you own guns.  How nice.  Aside from the concerns I have about you even thinking about this stuff, but you post that on the internet.  I have an idea, why don't we take two armies and match them against each other.  One army can have all knives and the other army can have all firearms.  Which army do you think will win?      :  Unbelievable.  How old are you?  Nevermind I found it.

 

[Fry]

Fry, I suggest you go back and re-read my posts.  Read them ten times if you have to, in order to understand them.  Then go back and read the section of the Firearms Act I quoted and read that ten times if you have to, then go and read S. 117.04 of the CCC and read that ten times if you have to.   


I can't believe you would even post this, now that is scary:

And you own guns.  How nice.  Aside from the concerns I have about you even thinking about this stuff, but you post that on the internet.  I have an idea, why don't we take two armies and match them against each other.  One army can have all knives and the other army can have all firearms.  Which army do you think will win?      :  Unbelievable.  How old are you?  Nevermind I found it.

How about you re-read what was posted by everyone else? You read and see a discussion on weapons and which are more effective at a particular task. You take into effect what each does and what that pos intruder would do and you can conclude which would be more deadlier. You took that, try to brand me as a wacko nutjob as you have with others in this thread and to be frank, I'm growing quite irritated with your BS posts. I posted that because I'm trying to explain to you how a knife would be just as if not a more dangerous weapon in a home. You said a firearm was, and I countered and explained.

A home invasion is entirely different from two armies fighting.

How old am I? You found it? More childishness. I'd rather fend for myself anyday than have someone with your illogical childish attitude, incapable of comprehending a simple internet forum post, taking that post, twisting it upside down, starting a flame war all because you're incapable of properly debating.

I think I speak for many when I say... just give it a rest. Post and contribute. Stop making up crap from other people's posts, stay on track. Grow up, quit the childishness and just let it go.

 

[Scott]

Don't get mad because I have pointed out that many of you have misinterpreted the law regarding seizing firearms.  I have not made any snide or abrasive comments on here yet, to any of you, despite myself being on the receiving end of sarcastic and inflammatory remarks. 

Stop your bloody whining about receiving harsh comments, it's getting old. You are just as guilty of posting things here that could get people riled up with the way they were written.

Scott
Army.ca Staff

 

[canadianblue]

He gave valid logical arguments against others. Yourself and QV come on here, toss around someone's post, come up with a pile of BS and then a fine topic is thrown off because neither of you can stay on track properly.

Not really, I guess on track means everyone being in complete agreement.

How old am I? You found it? More childishness. I'd rather fend for myself anyday than have someone with your illogical childish attitude, incapable of comprehending a simple internet forum post, taking that post, twisting it upside down, starting a flame war all because you're incapable of properly debating.

:

A home invasion is entirely different from two armies fighting.

What if said criminals find the gun first?

I think I speak for many when I say... just give it a rest. Post and contribute. Stop making up crap from other people's posts, stay on track. Grow up, quit the childishness and just let it go.

That's fairly hypocritical coming from yourself.

You go into a home and shoot someone sleeping at night and the whole family is awake. You go in with a knife and it's dead silent. You can hit where you want as opposed to aiming and firing.

I'd imagine some people might make a sound if they get hit with a knife. Even if the whole family is awake, the guy still has a gun, that is unless all of the children lie in bed with a gun under their pillow.

Given the mission creep of mental illness diagnosis criteria (mostly for the trivial reason of billing authority) and the much graver and apparently serious occasional attempts to associate certain political leanings with mental instability, I can only see the right to be armed as a greater necessity than ever.

Such as white supremacy movements, or anti-government militias?

If you couldn't understand the context that the message was presented in, go back to grammar school... hell, go back to the womb, start over and relearn life.

Sorry, I have learned in life, which is why I don't have an infatuation with guns.

Who said they need gun for protection from the police? Here you go AGAIN.

Did you notice that qoute?

All you do is take what someone says, stretch it (or in this case make it up) and then try to start a flame war. You're doing a good job, but I've got a feeling if this keeps up, we'll be seeing the 'banned' icon come up a few times. Stay on track.

Buddy you said that I supported drug use because I pointed out that just because somebody wants to do something, doesn't mean they should necessarily be able to do it. :

Stop your bloody whining about receiving harsh comments, it's getting old. You are just as guilty of posting things here that could get people riled up with the way they were written.

Ridiculous.

 

[1feral1]

Wesley and the NFA....

During my life in Canada, when it came time to jump on the gunowner's bandwagon for support, I joined the NFA, and when my collection was sold off in 1994, and I left Canuckistan, I let the membership lapse.

I was also a member of the local CF Rod and Gun Club, SWLF (Sask Wildife Federation), SGCA (Sask Gun Collector's Assn), and the WCAC (Western Canada Arms Collector's) the latter three Saskatchewan clubs.

I supported overall hunting, IPSC and target competitions (had a swag full of trophies), and firearms education at all levels for all ages.

Now in Australia, I am a member of the SSSA (google it), a licensed shooter, owning one bolt action rifle, an AIA M10A2 (based on the No.4 JC) carbine in 7.62 x 39mm.

I have owned firearms for 35 years, all catagories, shy of FA, and I support legal gun onwership of all types.


Wes