The Great Gun Control Debate

[Redeye]

This is still only baby steps.

There are far worse aspects to the Lieberals' firearms programme, but these have not received the attention in the media that they deserve because of their complexity. Wasted money was a simple concept for journalists though.

Licensing and criminalization of gun owners has to go.

Never going to happen. I'd actually like to see the resources wasted on the registry directed to better screening of license applicants, especially restricted license applicants. That might keep some of the bad eggs, like Kimveer Gill and Edward Paredes, legal licensed owners who killed people, from getting licenses in the first place.

Attacks on constitutionally-guaranteed rights and freedoms (unless one is a law-abiding gun owner) have to go.

What freedoms, specifically? There's no right to keep and bear arms provided for in Canada's Constitution.

"Good gun/bad gun" classifications (prohibitted/restricted/unrestricted) classifications, and, with them, the ridiculous concept of "grandfathering", have to go.

Bans on certain firearms, usually based upon nothing more than "scary" looks have to go.

Agreed, to an extent, some of the restricted classifications are ridiculous. Why is an AR15 restricted, when a Mini-14 isn't. By characteristics, they are identical.

Idiotic magazine bans have to go.

Meh. I don't care. Haven't really come up with a course of fire I've shot on a range where it was an issue. Granted, it's not really a public safety issue like some think, but again, this ain't going to change.

The political/police/media mindset that guns are evil and owners are deranged criminals-in-waiting has to go.

Pressure has to be maintained on politicians.

I refuse to be a scapegoat for failed Liberal hug-a-thug policies.

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[Bruce Monkhouse]

Said it before and I'll say it again,....why should I have to register my car, dog, cat, etc. and not register a gun??

 

[GAP]

stop registering them.....

 

[Redeye]

Said it before and I'll say it again,....why should I have to register my car, dog, cat, etc. and not register a gun??

Ultimately it's annoyance, and a minor annoyance at that. The money's already blown setting it up, and it basically costs nothing to keep it at this point, so why make such a production about it? It's just something to hand to rural voters. I own guns and I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing.

 

[QORvanweert]

Said it before and I'll say it again,....why should I have to register my car, dog, cat, etc. and not register a gun??

I support the abolition of the firearms registry and I believe that firearms differ from your examples in several crucial areas. It is entirely possible that your dog/cat may run away and need to be returned to you. That will never happen with a firearm. Your vehicle is registered for safety and insurance purposes. I have yet to meet a single firearms owner who's 2 tonne gun drives around town at 80+ km/hr and could with a single swipe take someone else's life(On this site there may very well be those who own such things, I don't believe they represent the majority of the population). For each of your examples there are realistic explanations for the limitations imposed through registration. A firearm is a tool which is why no one can rightfully complain about the user being licensed. The liability for its use is always assumed by the person using it. Registering the number of guns that someone has makes no difference whatsoever. I own 10-14 rifles and shotguns. All but one of which are at the family cottage in Pointe Au Baril. I live in Victoria, BC. though and every time I move I have to call up the RCMP and tell them my new address so they 'know' where my firearms are. It is ludicrous to think that such a system reduces crime, which it was nominally supposed to do. If it doesn't serve its purpose then it shouldn't be funded. Registration for the sake of registration(of any type for that matter, bicycle, tricycle or hang glider) is wasteful and encourages the government to overstep its bounds in other areas as well. Aside from the proven failure of the Firearms Registry, I know that I have been treated significantly differently by police as a result of being a legal firearms owner. So has my father and so have several of my brothers, relatives and friends. The destruction of the long gun registry is more than a sop to rural voters as another poster posited. It represents the end of a long and extremely frustrating road whereon we were treated like second class citizens all because a crazy man in Quebec went on a rampage. Its creation was purely political and its destruction will be a very very very welcome development for the millions across Canada who have been harangued and socially demeaned just because they like to hunt.

 

[RangerRay]

Said it before and I'll say it again,....why should I have to register my car, dog, cat, etc. and not register a gun??

For one thing, if I don't register my dog or my car, and get pinched for it, I don't get a criminal record.

Dogs and cars are registered through local authorities (municipalities, provinces) and there are no ties between those statutes and the Criminal Code.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the draconian search and seizure provisions of the Firearms Act is still in place.

 

[Stoker]

Good first step, hopefully we'll be able to take out our prohibs again and shoot them. I have a C1 that I would like to try out.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Said it before and I'll say it again,....why should I have to register my car, dog, cat, etc. and not register a gun??

Bruce,

You've asked this before and you've been answered before, but I'll give it to you, in part, one more time to ponder. Hopefully, this time it sticks.

You do not need to register a car to operate on your own property, However, if your car registration lapses, the police cannot show up, seize your car, do a warrantless search of your premises and ding you for unsafe storage of your vehicle. They will not take you to court and plea bargain your charges by getting you to abide to terms of not owning a car for ten years. If you forget your car registration and get stopped, you pay a small fine. Gun owners have their property confiscated and have to fight in court to get it back. You also won't garner federal charges, under the Criminal Code against yourself. You will not get the police coming to do warrantless searches of your property if you own more than 10 cars. All these things can and do happen to law abiding firearms owners.

You are talking apples and bowling balls. Both are inanimate objects that can't do harm without human interaction.

The firearms registration has not saved one single life since it came into being. No more than registering cars has stopped drunk driving.

Please do some reading and educate yourself before coming here looking like a troll trying to get a rise from people. And please stop asking the same question when it's been sufficiently answered for you before.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Never going to happen. I'd actually like to see the resources wasted on the registry directed to better screening of license applicants, especially restricted license applicants. That might keep some of the bad eggs, like Kimveer Gill and Edward Paredes, legal licensed owners who killed people, from getting licenses in the first place.

Licensing has not stopped a single shooting. People intent on carrying firearms and shooting people do not care about licenses. Most shootings are carried out by unlicensed criminals with illegal guns. The two people mentioned would have likely have committed the same crimes without a license. They are going to kill people, do you really think they care about plastic card? Guns are readily available illegally and without licenses or registrations getting in the way.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ultimately it's annoyance, and a minor annoyance at that. The money's already blown setting it up, and it basically costs nothing to keep it at this point, so why make such a production about it? It's just something to hand to rural voters. I own guns and I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing.

There's thousands upon thousands of legal firearms owner that are not ambivalent though and are totally opposed to your view.

 

[chrisf]

stop registering them.....

Everything I've bought new is registered at point of sale by the dealers... I can't imagine any dealer is going to risk their lisence by selling you an unregistered firearm...

 

[Stoker]

Reeceguy, no matter what you say to the anti's they will always be anti's. Nothing you say or do will change that. Thank god we have a government that for the time being is on our side, if the Liberals or the NDP won the last election we would be looking for a new hobby by now.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Everything I've bought new is registered at point of sale by the dealers... I can't imagine any dealer is going to risk their lisence by selling you an unregistered firearm...

That's if you're buying them from a dealer. There's lots out there that private owners refused to register the first time around.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Reeceguy, no matter what you say to the anti's they will always be anti's. Nothing you say or do will change that. Thank god we have a government that for the time being is on our side, if the Liberals or the NDP won the last election we would be looking for a new hobby by now.

Oh, I'm well aware. I don't mind giving people the benefit of the doubt or educating them about the lies being told by the likes of Wendy Cukier, the Liberals, NDP, RCMP, Unions or the Chiefs of Police. I'll try it once.

 

[ballz]

From a public finance essay I wrote last March:

But unfortunately in 2008, the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics reported "There are nearly 7 million registered long-guns in Canada. Yet of 2,441 homicides recorded in Canada since mandatory long-gun registration was introduced in 2003, fewer than 2 percent (47) were committed with rifles and shotguns known to have been registered." Another important thing to consider investigating crimes after they happen is that in Canada you are more likely to be stabbed than shot. According to the 2008 Statistics Canada Homicide Report, firearms were only used in about one third of all homicides. What is 2 percent of one third? It is two thirds of one percent. Yes, that is correct, registered firearms were used in about 0.67 percent of all homicides that year. That means of the 611 homicides in 2008, the long-gun registry may have helped catch around 4 criminals, and if it did, for the 08/09 Fiscal year, the Canadian Firearms Program spent $50.8 million to catch them. Unfortunately, not only has the long-gun registry failed to prevent any violent crimes from happening, it has also failed to really catch any criminals either.

Now, where specifically those facts came from I don't remember, so here is the list of Works Cited within the paper

Works Cited
1. Beattie, Sara, and Adam Cotter. "Homicide in Canada, 2009." Statistics Canada n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85- 002-x/2010003/article/11352-eng.htm>.

2. Beattie, Sara. "Homicide in Canada, 2008." Statistics Canada n.pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002- x/2009004/article/10929-eng.htm>.

3. Li, Geoffrey. "Homicide in Canada, 2007." Statistics Canada n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002- x/2008009/article/10671-eng.htm>.

4. Silver, Warren. "Crime Statistics in Canada, 2006." Statistics Canada n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85- 002-x/85-002-x2007005-eng.pdf>.

5. "Canadian Firearms Program - Overview." Royal Canadian Mounted Police n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.rcmp- grc.gc.ca/pubs/fire-feu-eval/pg1-eng.htm#Mission>.

6. "Canadian Firearms Program Evaluation." Royal Canadian Mounted Police n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.rcmp- grc.gc.ca/pubs/fire-feu-eval/index-eng.htm>.

7. "The Long-Gun Registry: Costs and Crime Statistics." Public Safety Canada n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/media/nr/2007/nr20071116-2- eng.aspx>.

8. Robinson, Walter. "CTF projects multiple scenarios for gun registry's future costs, CTF says gun registry accounting smacks of Enron fiasco." Canadian Taxpayer's Federation n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://taxpayer.com/federal/ctf-projects-multiple-scenarios- gun- registrys-future-costs-ctf-says-gun-registry-accounting->.


  9. Dauvergne, Mia. "Trends in police-reported serious assaults." Statistics Canada n. pag. Web. 4 Apr 2011. <http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2009004/article/10930- eng.htm>.

10. Gunter, Lorne. "Gun control myths just won't die." National Post 09 May 2005, Print.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Ultimately it's annoyance, and a minor annoyance at that. The money's already blown setting it up, and it basically costs nothing to keep it at this point, so why make such a production about it? It's just something to hand to rural voters. I own guns and I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing.

Perhaps to you $100 million a year in administrative costs for the Registry is nothing, but to me it's a big deal.  Also, as a rural person it's a touch offensive that you wave this off as "something to hand to rural voters".  What is required is laws and enforcement to keep firearms out of gangs and "city folk" who tend to shoot one another more than us country bumpkins.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Features/2007/08/28/4452833-sun.html

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Recceguy, in case you need to be reminded, I totally support the right of people to use em, keep em, collect em, shit you can have sex with them if you like, makes no mind to me.

I also think the govt. has screwed this program, and the gun owners, but registering isn't the problem,.........as per, stupidity in implementation is.

Chief Stoker,...I'm certainly not an "anti", but I guess when you have no other arguement..................

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Perhaps to you $100 million a year in administrative costs for the Registry is nothing, but to me it's a big deal.  Also, as a rural person it's a touch offensive that you wave this off as "something to hand to rural voters".  What is required is laws and enforcement to keep firearms out of gangs and "city folk" who tend to shoot one another more than us country bumpkins.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Features/2007/08/28/4452833-sun.html

The Urban vs Rural is just another antigun coalition lie. There are very few urban owners that are 'ambivalent' to this boondoggle either.

 

[Lowlander]

Does anyone know when the vote is going to happen, or has that date not been set?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Please clarify.

If the long gun registry gets canned people who have or want to buy restricted weapons (ie ar15) will still have to register them and be held accountable to the laws like only taking the weapon to and from a registered shooting range etc..

The long gun registry deals with non-restricted long guns?