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The Khadr Thread

Loachman

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jmt18325 said:
The law is their area of expertise.

And that does not make them infallible or immune to bias.

Justice and what the courts say are not always the same thing.
 

Bird_Gunner45

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shawn5o said:
BrdGunner - I guess opinions and viewpoints don't matter, right? And speaking of JAG branch, wasn't it quiet on Omar?

Opinions and viewpoints within someone's lane are fine and should be seen as an expert opinion to be sought.

While I know that the army receives legal training to a small extent, no one outside of the legal system/SCC is qualified or has the expertise to make the decisions.

It'd be akin to show a justice how to use a C7 and then having him brief the Bn Comd on how a BG attack went on based on his training.

So no- I categorically do not believe that 26 years of military experience, outside the JAG branch, counts in this regard.
 

jmt18325

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Loachman said:
And that does not make them infallible or immune to bias.

Justice and what the courts say are not always the same thing.

I agree - they're completely fallible.  They're simply more qualified to make the determination.
 

FJAG

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Honestly guys. This s**t is getting lame.  :blah: Move on.

:cheers:
 

Remius

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FJAG said:
Honestly guys. This s**t is getting lame.  :blah: Move on.

:cheers:


I tend to agree.  No one is going to convince anyone here.  When it comes to Khadr, each side of this is pretty entrenched. 
 

gryphonv

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FJAG said:
Honestly guys. This s**t is getting lame.  :blah: Move on.

:cheers:
Thank you.

We all established where we stand in this thread several pages ago. I doubt anyone here is going to change their opinion. I know I'm not in this regard. To me Khadr is a terrorist regardless of how or why or a confession. And there are those who don't feel that, or something else entirely


I'm all for seeing new news articles added here from all viewpoints and developing stories, but for the commenters, including myself, going back and repeating something over and over adds little to this going forward.

A few of us need to share a few beers and agree to disagree.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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Good suggestion,  FJAG, this topic isn't worth the sweat off my balls.  I'm going to stay off this thread.  :salute:
 

George Wallace

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Traveling the Maritimes right now, and it seems that the whole matter has completely disappeared from their collective radar.  In travelling from ON to NB seemed to be a magical imaginary line where outrage turned instantly to apathy.  I have seen absolutely nothing in the Press in NB, NS, nor PEI on Khadr.  Any predictions that this will have a negative on the Liberal Red Voters in the Maritimes will likely be long forgotten in 2019; as they are already forgotten.
 

Loachman

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http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/07/17/ndp-havent-been-all-that-vocal-about-khadr-deal-and-heres-why

NDP haven’t been all that vocal about Khadr deal and here’s why 

By Anthony Furey, Postmedia Network 

First posted:  Monday, July 17, 2017 06:56 PM EDT  | Updated:  Monday, July 17, 2017 07:01 PM EDT 

It’s risky business, being a politician on the left these days.

They champion new-fangled progressive issues and this makes them the darlings of social justice warriors and the liberal media.

But they do so at the risk of alienating the non-elite, blue collar folks within their ranks for whom these increasingly fringe concerns just don’t resonate.

The political fallout from the Omar Khadr payout has largely been portrayed as a Liberal government vs. Conservative opposition issue – with Conservative leader Andrew Scheer taking a stand against Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

The NDP has managed to stay largely off the radar, despite being in the midst of a leadership race. Lucky for them.

Lucky because this has become a wedge issue that isn’t as easy for them as you might at first suspect.

It perfectly exemplifies the big split that exists among the rank-and-file of Canada’s left-wing party: the champagne socialists vs. the blue collar types.

The Angus Reid Institute poll on the matter showed 71% of Canadians opposed the government’s settlement deal with Khadr and would have preferred they tough it out and fight it in court.

When broken down by voter intention, the Conservative opposition was highest at 91%.

However 64% of NDP voters also rejected the deal, several points higher than the Liberal opposition, at 61%.

That’s a red flag to the NDP caucus and party grandees that this is one of those common sense issues where they risk upsetting a huge swath of their support if they play it wrong.

But it looks like they already know this.

Because for all of the strongly worded opinions we’ve heard and read from people across the spectrum, the NDP has been surprisingly quiet on it.

Evan Solomon writing in Maclean’s summarizes the political reactions as: “There are the ‘Never Pay’ Conservatives, the ‘Had to Pay’ Liberals and the ‘Must Pay’ NDP.”

As an ardent Hill watcher, Solomon is no doubt right that this is the position they’re articulating in Ottawa.

But they didn’t exactly blast it over the megaphones to make all Canadians crystal clear on where they stand, as the Conservatives did.

The party website features no releases on the matter, even though a scroll through recent ones is a reminder they’re not shy about speaking up on issues of the day.

On social media, where the Khadr debate has been high octane, even by online standards, all four of the leadership candidates have curiously been near silent.

Only two of them - Guy Caron and Jagmeet Singh - posted about the issue. Just once, on Twitter.

And they managed to do it in a way that voiced their disapproval of Khadr’s prolonged legal ordeal, without commenting on the steep, $10.5 million pay-out.

Similarly, that was the thrust of NDP justice critic Alistair Macgregor’s position: former Liberal and Conservative governments are to blame for getting us into this position in the first place.

The focus was on the charter rights angle. There was little talk of the cash payment to Khadr, nor of rationalizing or downplaying his jihadist past, as some voices have done.

Smart move. Good luck arguing with factory workers that this is a virtuous use of their tax dollars.

As savvy politics goes, the party and leadership candidates were wise to not jump in with both feet into this conversation.

But it’s quite the contrast: Leftist SJWs online passionately embracing the payout while almost two-thirds of social democrat voters polled reject it.

What a split to reconcile.
 

Loachman

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http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/07/17/tory-mp-cheryl-gallant-slams-citizen-other-media-for-fake-news-around-omar-khadr

Tory MP Cheryl Gallant slams media for 'fake news' around Omar Khadr 

Olivia Blackmore

First posted:  Monday, July 17, 2017 10:42 PM EDT  | Updated:  Monday, July 17, 2017 11:31 PM EDT 

Conservative MP Cheryl Gallant is accusing media outlets, including seemingly the Citizen, of putting out “fake news” in regards to their coverage of the federal government’s $10.5-million settlement with Omar Khadr.

"Whether it's the Toronto Star, CBC, Globe and Mail, CTV or even the National Post, editorialists and columnists have been tripping over themselves in a rush to justify Justin's payout to Khadr," Gallant said, in a video posted to her Facebook page last week, against a backdrop that included media signs including the Ottawa Citizen logo.

Gallant, the MP for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke, made the statement in a 10-minute news-style segment called “Gallant Night News” or GNN.

She introduced her video by talking about her previous episode in which she had interviewed a veteran who was injured in Afghanistan. She also talked about Julie Payette becoming the next Governor General, about the Bank of Canada raising interest rates and about her thoughts on how some media outlets have covered the $10.5-million payout to Khadr. The money was part of a settlement of Khadr’s multimillion-dollar lawsuit against the federal government for violating his charter rights during interrogations at Guantanamo Bay.

“(The media) has been working overtime to ‘media-splain’ why you should zip it and just accept the payout,” Gallant said.

“They brought out fake news story after fake news story claiming that it was all somehow Harper’s fault. That Trudeau had no choice.”

Gallant said that apart from letters to editor and “a few rebels” it was hard to find media who oppose the payout.

“They have so thoroughly cocooned themselves into their tiny media bubble that no amount of basic common sense can be penetrating,” Gallant said.

Gallant refers to the recent poll released by the Angus Reid Institute that said 71 per cent of Canadians believe that the government made the wrong decision by settling with the Khadr.

“Canadians do not want a government that gives $10 million to somebody who built a roadside bombs when the same government is refusing to give a benefit to a qualifying veteran injured by a roadside bomb,” Gallant said.

In her last video posted two weeks ago, Gallant interviewed a veteran named Roger Perrault who was injured by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan and who she said was denied his critical injury benefit.

The video has received 1,400 views on Facebook.

oblackmore@postmedia.com

Twitter.com/olivia_blckmr
 

tomahawk6

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Gateway Pundit has a piece on Khadr. On Fox news Tucker Carlson interviewed a soldier who was blinded by Khadr's grenade. By giving Omar 10.5 million the Canadian government has provided the people he injured/killed the means to achieve restitution that they otherwise wouldnt have gotten.Seems fair.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/07/former-canadian-prime-minister-called-us-hero-apologize-trudeaus-shameful-actions-video/
 

Lightguns

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tomahawk6 said:
Gateway Pundit has a piece on Khadr. On Fox news Tucker Carlson interviewed a soldier who was blinded by Khadr's grenade. By giving Omar 10.5 million the Canadian government has provided the people he injured/killed the means to achieve restitution that they otherwise wouldnt have gotten.Seems fair.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/07/former-canadian-prime-minister-called-us-hero-apologize-trudeaus-shameful-actions-video/

Except there are members of the governing party that seem to be willingly assisting in making sure that money is never available to a Canadian court.  In this case, these folks may have to use the process to ensure that he never enjoys the money and contributes heartily to his lawyers retirement fund. 
 

shawn5o

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jmt18325 said:
Close only counts in horse-shoes and hand grenades though.  Whether or not they made a mistake is kind of beside the point.  They're the final arbiter of such things, and they've already decided.

What I am saying and the point you missed is the SCC was divided in its ruling. If the SCC made a mistake - it is a huge mistake.

Secondly, the SCC ruled that Canada failed its "international human rights obligations". What the SCC really means is Khadr was tortured. Of that, I highly doubt it happened. Water-boarding? Only Khadr's lawyer and khadr claim that happened. Was proof presented to the SCC? Answer: No.

Third, the SCC also ruled that Canada was complicit in Khadr's imprisonment. And this, of course, deprived Khadr of his Charter rights, specifically, his right to liberty and security of the person guaranteed by s. 7.

Anyone can see the problem with that ruling.

Finally, a quote that sums up my position of the SCC:
"'If the law supposes that,' said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, 'the law is a *** — a idiot. If that's the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is, that his eye may be opened by experience — by experience.'"

Another two cents of mine
 

shawn5o

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Bird_Gunner45 said:
Opinions and viewpoints within someone's lane are fine and should be seen as an expert opinion to be sought.

While I know that the army receives legal training to a small extent, no one outside of the legal system/SCC is qualified or has the expertise to make the decisions.

It'd be akin to show a justice how to use a C7 and then having him brief the Bn Comd on how a BG attack went on based on his training.

So no- I categorically do not believe that 26 years of military experience, outside the JAG branch, counts in this regard.

Yes, brdgnr - you do have that right to dismiss my complaint as I have the right to dismiss the JAG and the SCC. Frankly I don't care if the JAG or the chief justice is Jesus Christ, returned. I still will flip him or her or JC the bird in regards to this case
 

Remius

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So on another issue that is related.

Brian Lily of CFRA is looking to raise 1 000 000$ for the Speer family.  Canadians so far have stepped up and donated 200,000 or so in very little time. 

Regardless of how you feel or what side of the argument you are on, this is a worthy gesture.

Link is here.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-raise-1-000-000-for-sgt-chris-speer-s-kids#/

Mods if this violates site policies about solicitation please remove.

 

shawn5o

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I know that this Khadr debate is moot. However, I wish to draw attention to the Canadian taxpayer's Federation petition against the pay-out.

Dear supporter,

Thanks again for signing our petition opposing the $10.5 million payment to Omar Khadr.

In the first nine days, more than 133,000 Canadians signed the petition. Excluding the middle of the night, that’s 1,000 Canadians per hour.

To put this into context, the most successful e-petition tabled in the House of Commons was around 130,000 and that took four months. We beat that in nine days!



We might not have been able to stop this payment, but getting organized made an impact. There’s no doubt that the Prime Minister heard loud and clear that Canadians are upset. Hopefully that will cause him to reconsider next time he’s faced with a similar decision.
(Taxpayer.com)
----------------

If I offended anyone with my rants, I apologize.
 

Wookilar

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It's not so much the payout that bothers me, or some of the recent opinion pieces coming out stating opposition/support of said payout...
What bothers me is some of the language used, repeatedly, when this was announced. It was the right thing to do....oh and we saved a metric-buttload of money as well :nod: see aren't we S-M-R-T?

I've been having a discussion with a local journalist, one with a pretty solid rep, on some of the stranger aspects of this whole thing. He pointed me to this opinion piece:

http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/07/07/opinion/what-if-omar-khadr-isnt-guilty ATTENTION: a few photos in here that some may find disturbing. However, I think they are extremely important to see. Perspective is vitally important and so much of what we have always gotten about this entire affair has been muddied and filtered through so many political screens that the truth, as we all know, lies somewhere off screen.

Thoughts?
 

Loachman

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I could never understand the "murder" bit, given that this was an armed conflict. PWs have traditionally been kept until the conflict du jour was over, and this conflict still continues.

Regardless, he took up arms against this Country and an ally, and he would have been happy if one of his IEDs had killed one or more of our guys.

He is still a traitor, still undeserving of that much money, and should still be behind bars (iron, not gold) for his actions.
 
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