The Khadr Thread

[aluc]

It is truly a shame that liberal democratic societies welcome these people with open arms. In my opinion they show no respect or regard for the traditions and value systems of their new countries. As well as a lack of willingness to learn , appreciate, and adapt to the customs and values of their new land. They believe there is a right to carry on as they did back home. Supposedly they immigrate to a new land of freedom and opportunity because their homeland did not provide this for them. Interestingly, upon arrival they are granted their rights and freedoms ( as well as citizenship soon afterwards) yet have done nothing (aside from paying taxes) to really deserve these privileges. It appears they simply want to turn _______ (insert any liberal democratic society) into their former homeland. It sickens me to witness these people take advantage of our rights and freedoms and apply them for their own selfish ends (which mostly have nothing to do with the majority of Canadians or Canada) The actions of the Khadr family, as well as the deplorable actions taken by the family members of the suspected terrorists in Australia (when they severely beat a reporter who was simply exercising his right of freedom of the press) are extreme examples of this lack of regard for the values of liberal democratic societies across the globe. That beating conjured up images of those mass demonstrations you see on the news in ______(insert any middle eastern country). The soft and welcoming brand of multiculturalism, where everyone belongs, and no one has to adapt, is only helping to ruin Canada and everything she identifies with  and stands for. On a personal note - when my grandparents thankfully chose to come here after WWII they had to adapt to their new land, and they worked their as*es off. They had to learn the language, they adopted the holidays and customs of their new land. Why? Because it made them proud to do anything that would make them more Canadian.  They didn't whine a b*tch about the lack of social services, or not being able to write a drivers licence test in the language of their choice ( I think there are dozens of languages to choose from in Ontario - may be wrong) etc, etc. They wanted my parents (who came here at a very young age) to become real  Canadians, and they have.  Although my brother and I are the only members of my immediate family,(excluding cousins and such)  who were actually born in Canada, we couldn't give two  sh*ts about the our "motherland", and neither do my parents, we are all fiercely proud Canadians. And that's because my parents put that pressure on us to be Canadian - not Italian. The same thing was done to them. And this lack of pressure on new Canadians now a days to conform to the customs, values, and traditions that shaped this great nation (primarily English / French) is a contributing factor in the confusion that surrounds the new Canadian identity no one can really identify.

I just felt like ranting a bit...maybe a little off topic ....I think I'll stop now

 

[scm77]

Pentagon won't seek execution of Khadr: report

CTV.ca News Staff

A 19-year-old Canadian detained at Guantanamo Bay and facing trial by a U.S. military court for several charges, including murder, will not be executed if he's convicted, according to a report.

The Pentagon will not seek the death penalty against Omar Khadr, the Toronto-born suspect who is facing charges stemming from the death of a U.S. army medic during a 2002 grenade attack in Afghanistan, The Globe and Mail reports.

"The case will not be referred as a capital case," a U.S. Defence Department spokesman said Tuesday.

"They have assured me that the death penalty will not be a consideration in his case."

The announcement was welcomed in Ottawa.

"We have sought these kinds of assurances for some time now from the United States, that they would not seek the death penalty because of Mr. Khadr's age," Dan McTeague, the Canadian parliamentary secretary for Foreign Affairs told the newspaper.

"He was just 15 at the time of the alleged offence. But in addition, Canada opposes the death penalty in all instances as being inconsistent with Canadian values."

McTeague said Ottawa will continue to press the Americans to allow Khadr to have access to Canadian lawyers and to have civilian lawyers representing him when the military tribunal is convened.

Khadr was born in Toronto. His family moved to Peshawar, Pakistan when he was four.

Khadr is charged with hurling a hand grenade that killed an American soldier and wounded three others during a firefight with Taliban fighters in Afghanistan in July 2002, when he was 15.

Khadr arrived in Guantanamo Bay as a 16-year-old, the youngest enemy combatant detained there, and has been held at the base on Cuba amid accusations from supporters that he has been tortured.

Some legal observers have said they believe the Pentagon decided against seeking the death penalty, mainly because of the Supreme Court ruling in March that barred executions of criminals under 18 as cruel and unusual punishment.

In Toronto on Tuesday, Khadr's mother Maha Elsamnah, lashed out at both Washington and Ottawa over the detention and treatment of her son.

"The Americans are gods now. The Americans can do anything. They make the law. Nobody can tell them anything. Nobody can disagree with them."

"The Canadians have not been trying anything," Ms. Elsamnah told The Canadian Press. "Ottawa is allied to the Americans, so what do you expect?"

The Khadrs, all of whom are Canadian citizens, have had an uneasy relationship with Canada since it emerged that Omar's father, Ahmed Sa'id Khadr, was a close associate of Osama bin Laden.

The family patriarch was killed in a gun battle with U.S.-led coalition forces in Pakistan in October 2003. His youngest son Karim, was paralyzed during the same incident.

Karim's mother brought her son back to Canada for treatment in the fall of 2004.

Another son, Abdurahman, is on the outs with his family after admitting to being a mole at Guantanamo Bay.

The family's oldest brother, Abdullah, is believed to have been detained in Pakistan more than a year ago.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051109/khadr_deathpenalty_051109/20051109?hub=Canada

 

[Slim]

Great msg that's being sent out to the world about Canada...

"Come to Canada where you can go to war with us, then live in the country who's soldiers you tried to kill!"

 

[aluc]

http://www.torontosun.ca/News/Columnists/Worthington_Peter/2005/11/10/1300192.html

God bless Peter Worthington.

 
He's no soldier - or Canadian

By PETER WORTHINGTON




There's something weird about murder and attempted murder charges being laid against Omar Khadr, now in his fourth year as a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay.

He was in Afghanistan, which was being invaded, and he was fighting the invaders, who killed everyone but him. Allegations are that he killed a U.S. medical corpsman and wounded another with a grenade. Surely that's "war," not murder?

That said, shed no tears for Omar Khadr -- described in our media as a "Toronto teenager." Although he was born here to a notorious al-Qaida family, Omar is hardly a typical "Canadian."

His loyalty, training and beliefs belong elsewhere. His Egyptian father chose Canada as a base from which to operate. Predictable hearts are now bleeding for this guy, the lone survivor of a raid on an al-Qaida position during the war against the Taliban.

Concerns that Omar, now 19, would face execution if convicted were never realistic. Despite a military tribunal not being a real court, Americans do not sentence 15-year-olds to death who throw grenades in war. Indeed the Pentagon confirmed yesterday that Khadr would not be executed.

Even if they convicted him of murder (a ridiculous charge since he was fighting back), the Americans were unlikely to embarrass the Canadian government, which opposes executions.

Omar's New York lawyer, Muneer Ahmad, calls him a "child" and says the U.S. government "has robbed Omar of his youth."

What rubbish.

Omar's "youth" was robbed by al-Qaida, for whom he fought. It was robbed by his father, who took him and his siblings to al-Qaida terror camps in Afghanistan. His mother, too, has made it clear theirs is an al-Qaida family.

One son, Adurahman, when caught by the Americans, rebelled against his al-Qaida-Taliban indoctrination and is now free in Toronto.

A younger brother was crippled by a bullet -- again, thanks to the fanatic father, Ahmed Said, who died in a gun battle with Pakistani security forces in 2003.

In 1996, then prime minister Jean Chretien persuaded Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf to release Daddy Khadr, who was in prison for the bombing of the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad.

This is not the Walton family. Omar has claimed torture and abuse in Gitmo and gone on hunger strikes. Depending on one's definition of torture, nothing Omar has endured can compare with what his own side inflicted on disbelievers. Rather than torture, Omar and others have endured humiliation and degradation. So what? He still has his fingernails.

Complaints that the 500 confined at Gitmo don't fall under the Geneva Convention are baseless. These guys weren't fighting by civilized rules of war; they honoured no code of behaviour or practice.

Military tribunals are a far cry from regular courts and due process, which takes years in the U.S. The Americans understandably want to avoid such an endless charade. Canada has largely avoided getting involved in Omar's case, or commenting.

Ottawa can't be faulted for this, though Omar's defenders feel Ottawa should be protesting on behalf of a "citizen."

Some citizen! Canada ignored Bill Sampson's torture and death sentence on framed charges in a Saudi prison and ignored Maher Arar in a Syrian prison. So why expect Ottawa to react on Omar's behalf -- other than a chance to snipe at America.

Apart from Adurahman, the Khadr family seems unworthy of Canada. The sympathy Omar deserves is that his own family so poisoned his mind that he may well be unsalvageable.

The best that can be said for him is that he was a fighter for a misguided cause ... and lost.

Let's have no more whining and let him accept his fate like the soldier he thought he was.

 

[long haired civvy]

I think what we need in Canada is some form of legislation(similiar to the proposed UK anti terror bill) that would  allow authorities to expel(or better yet revoke the citizenship of) naturalized Canadian citizens who support or make statements of support for terrorist organizations. The British bill is aimed squarely at lowlife like the Khadrs, who while enjoying all the advantages of Canadian citizenship, work dilligently abroad spreading the plague of Islamic fundamentalism.

 

[GO!!!]

I have an innovative solution.

Ask for Khadrs release from Guantanamo.

Offer the Syrians a "by" for their treatment of Maher Arar, and their guarantee that prisoners are poorly treated.

Then release Khadr - to the Syrians!  >  >  >

 

[Armymedic]

And to be somewhat equal, an oposing view from the Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1131576446129

Editorial: Khadr's terror trial
Nov. 10, 2005. 01:00 AM


The only Canadian terror suspect at Guantanamo Bay has just been charged with murder, attempted murder, conspiracy and aiding the enemy in Afghanistan.

If convicted, Omar Khadr, 19, may face years in prison.

While U.S. military prosecutors have wisely chosen not to press for the death penalty, Prime Minister Paul Martin has yet to see that in writing. Even when he does, Canadians will have reason to worry that Khadr may not receive a fair trial.

"Khadr is a Canadian citizen who is entitled to due process, the right to his choice of American or Canadian counsel, and consular visits," Dan McTeague, parliamentary secretary for foreign affairs, told the Star this week. But winning even those modest concessions from U.S. President George Bush's tribunals is proving to be an uphill struggle.

Martin may be relieved that he won't have to publicly press Bush to spare Khadr's life, but Ottawa must monitor this case closely, and raise a fuss at the United Nations or in Geneva if Khadr receives less than a fair trial by international standards.

A Canadian citizen, Khadr is the son of Ahmed Khadr, allegedly a former "close associate" of Osama bin Laden. The Khadrs cheered the 9/11 attacks.

U.S. prosecutors contend Omar received Al Qaeda training in Afghanistan in 2002, spied on U.S. troops, planted mines and killed U.S. Army Sgt. Christopher Speer with a grenade during a firefight in which Khadr was shot. All this makes him sound like a seasoned terrorist.

In fact, Khadr was 15 at the time, a classic "child soldier." He was subject to his late father's indoctrination and authority. He says he was "dropped off" at the Al Qaeda camp shortly before U.S. troops surrounded it and the firefight began.

Few Canadians have much time for the Khadr clan. Not when our troops are in Afghanistan, battling terror and delivering aid. But Canadians do care about justice. And what Khadr is likely to get may fall short.

Khadr will not face his accusers in a credible court of law. The controversial U.S. military commissions at Guantanamo are anything but impartial.

Military officers function as judges and jurors. Evidence can be withheld from the accused. Information from unlawful coercion is admissible. There is no right of appeal or independent judicial review.

Indeed these military courts have sparked such controversy that the U.S. Supreme Court has just agreed to hear a challenge to their constitutionality.

The Supreme Court already has shot down the administration's claim that Guantanamo is beyond the reach of U.S. law.

Khadr should have been brought before a competent court in Afghanistan, where his alleged crimes were committed. Or before a U.S. criminal court, or an international tribunal. He could even have been tried here.

He could also have been set free, on humanitarian grounds. He has already spent years in detention.

Instead, Washington has chosen to put a child combatant before a partisan military tribunal to face years in prison for acts committed on his father's orders, and under fire.

It is not the way Canadians do justice. There are better ways to serve freedom, and thwart terror.

:skull:

 

[3rd Horseman]

When will someone in Ottawa start stripping passports?

  It reminds me of that US citizen they caught at the first suurender in Afganistan of the TB. Forget his name but he was brought back to the US and tried and put in jail. Why not just strip him of his passport when he was in that sh*t hole jail in Afganistan and set him adrift countryless and in the hands of theb northern alliance who probably would have carved him a new as*hole.

Kahdrs along with countless others on our country that dont play our game need to have the old passport and citizinship yanked and they need to be set adrift as world refugees.

 

[The_Falcon]

It is not the way Canadians do justice. There are better ways to serve freedom, and thwart terror.

It may not be the way Canadians do justice up here in Canada (The most morally superior high forehead nation in the world), but that is a good thing, considering the way we molly-coddle criminals in our "legal system" (We do not have "justice" system, despite what the bleeding hearts say).  Except maybe for this star reporter, the scumbags family and the usual left-wing suspects, Canadians as a whole are not going to cry in there beer/timmies over this waste of life.

 

[Acorn]

There is currently nothing in Canadian law that allows for the stripping of citizenship. Passports can, and have, be denied.

 

[armyintheafterlife]

It is truly a shame that liberal democratic societies welcome these people with open arms. In my opinion they show no respect or regard for the traditions and value systems of their new countries. As well as a lack of willingness to learn , appreciate, and adapt to the customs and values of their new land. They believe there is a right to carry on as they did back home. Supposedly they immigrate to a new land of freedom and opportunity because their homeland did not provide this for them. Interestingly, upon arrival they are granted their rights and freedoms ( as well as citizenship soon afterwards) yet have done nothing (aside from paying taxes) to really deserve these privileges. It appears they simply want to turn _______ (insert any liberal democratic society) into their former homeland. It sickens me to witness these people take advantage of our rights and freedoms and apply them for their own selfish ends (which mostly have nothing to do with the majority of Canadians or Canada) The actions of the Khadr family, as well as the deplorable actions taken by the family members of the suspected terrorists in Australia (when they severely beat a reporter who was simply exercising his right of freedom of the press) are extreme examples of this lack of regard for the values of liberal democratic societies across the globe. That beating conjured up images of those mass demonstrations you see on the news in ______(insert any middle eastern country). The soft and welcoming brand of multiculturalism, where everyone belongs, and no one has to adapt, is only helping to ruin Canada and everything she identifies with   and stands for. On a personal note - when my grandparents thankfully chose to come here after WWII they had to adapt to their new land, and they worked their as*es off. They had to learn the language, they adopted the holidays and customs of their new land. Why? Because it made them proud to do anything that would make them more Canadian.   They didn't whine a b*tch about the lack of social services, or not being able to write a drivers licence test in the language of their choice ( I think there are dozens of languages to choose from in Ontario - may be wrong) etc, etc. They wanted my parents (who came here at a very young age) to become real   Canadians, and they have.   Although my brother and I are the only members of my immediate family,(excluding cousins and such)   who were actually born in Canada, we couldn't give two   sh*ts about the our "motherland", and neither do my parents, we are all fiercely proud Canadians. And that's because my parents put that pressure on us to be Canadian - not Italian. The same thing was done to them. And this lack of pressure on new Canadians now a days to conform to the customs, values, and traditions that shaped this great nation (primarily English / French) is a contributing factor in the confusion that surrounds the new Canadian identity no one can really identify.

I just felt like ranting a bit...maybe a little off topic ....I think I'll stop now

You know, this story isn't about immigrants, as much as the Canadian media keeps trolling, its about a young man getting all cranked up and set on hopeless journey by the morons that were supposed to be guiding him to maturity.  Instead of 'go read your math book' it was let's all go have a jehad.  Now these same folks want Canadians to feel sorry for their deviant son and will manipulate the media any way they can to get at the politicians, who will react consistent with how many votes they think they may lose or get.  Doesn't matter where he launched from, point is, his critical error was shooting at American soldiers.  For that he was kept locked up, likely questioned and will now be tried and punished for his crimes.  The rules for this sort of thing worldwide are simple: when you're in a country other than your own you are subject to the rules of that country and by extension, when you're in a country at war with America (or Canada for that matter) and you shoot at American troops, expect them to return effective fire.  If they get hold of you, expect to be treated like the POW you are.  Canada has no right or obligation to protect this person from the death penalty.  Last time I checked we were militarily allied with the U.S. and ought to hold up our end of that log.  If this isn't the case then we ought to stop signing international agreements that say we are.  End of story.     

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

I read somewhere that Canada has a law on the books that  makes it illegal to fight in a war that you are fighting againist Canadians or allies. I do not fully understand it. Read about in the Ottawa Sun in a story  about a Canadian that went to Nam, as part of the USMC . it was illegal for Canadians to go as it was not a declared war by Canada, and fighting for US was not legal either but the Canadian Government looked the other way  as they  did they  took in non Canadians during WW 2 when they wanted to join up north.

But if there is such a law on the books after they are done with the POS in the States, they need to send him home to face Canadian Law and see what  happens.

My personally feelings on this matter are very  uncaring

1) they fought in an declared war, did not wear a uniform, did not belong to a legal army, killed women and children and other innocents, fired upon Medics.

2) They oppressed their own people for sake of power

3) some of them are involved in the drug trade

4) He personally  insulted his country and his family expects Canada to bail him out of Cuba ( give me a break )

5) he wants to protest his lack of freedom and lack of rights.

where is the freedom for the medic he shot
where is the conventions of war for the people he killed, or tried to kiil or helped to capture.
where was he when his country  needed him to help defend it and support it
He did the crime let him do the time.

If he thinks he needs to be saved and given back his freedom, send him back to where he was captured and let the Afgan people decide what  sort of punishment he deserves. Let him rot in one of the fine 5 star jails they have over there. I am sure they  will give him a shower , 3 meals a day, time to pray, recreational area, and free medical care as needed.

if i had my way  i would drop the POS into the Ottawa River and see if he can walk on water with blocks of concrete around his neck. drown the bastard and forget about him, he does not deserve the help of Canada, and does not require court hearing, he was there armed, shooting at US forces. let him rot and die. I am sick of the people coming to Canada and brining the crap over here with them and then taking Canadian money , sending it back home to support terror, sort illegal businesses. then they want Canada to bail them out, screw them and the camel they  rode in on.

 

[Britney Spears]

A slight nitpick: The Taliban, being fanatical Muslims, adhered very strictly to the Koranic prohibition on the use of mind altering substances, that is, alchohol and any form of narcotic. The opium trade was essentially stamped out in Taliban controlled areas. The principle areas of opium cultivation were those controlled by the Northern Alliance, for whom it was essentially the only form of financing they had access to, prior to 9/11.

So, no, he probably wasn't involved in the drug trade.

 

[Hollywog]

Seems to me that the Death Penalty is still used in both Afghanistan and parts of the US of A.   The 'alleged' crime was committed in Afghanistan against Americans.   He is being tried by an American Judicial System.   'Canada' does not enter into the equation at all (other than his claim to Citizenship.).   He is being treated as any other foreigner would, if committing a crime in the US or in this case against a US citizen.  

There are numerous cases of Canadians on Death Row in the US. for crimes they have committed there.   Why should Canadians plea for this retches case?

Didn't Chretien do that when one of the Khadirs was held by Pakistan?

 

[George Wallace]

Didn't Chretien do that when one of the Khadirs was held by Pakistan?

Yes.   And what thanks did he give?   He went back and was killed in a Firefight with the Pakistani Army.  Hope I got that right?  That family has had such a convoluted History in the Region, it is hard to keep track.

 

[patt]

maybe he should read up on his Charter of rights and freedoms..they dont apply when you do something bad outside of Canada

 

[silentbutdeadly]

So i guess when the americans hang this Killer, the family , living here in Canada, will blame us for his murder. Funny isn't it! :threat:

 

[armyvern]

So i guess when the americans hang this Killer, the family , living here in Canada, will blame us for his murder. Funny isn't it! :threat:

Well they already announced that they would not seek the death penalty. Too bad....perhaps I can start a lobby group entitled "let Vern have him for 10 minutes!!" Actually, give me 15 so that I can make sure it really hurts!!

 

[Infanteer]

In an attempt to learn more about the Khadr family, I watched this frontline episode focusing on the "blacksheep" of the family, Abduraman.  It was well worth watching (as with other Frontline episodes)

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/khadr/view/

Osama bin Laden is a volleyball fan - I wonder if he gets many games in at his cave?  The Khadr women sure seem like a bunch of unrepentent bags; my opinion on them still stands.

Interesting to see that Bosnia is recognized as a major pipeline for Al-Qaeda activity - it certainly shores up some of my observations from being there.

 

[3rd Horseman]

Bosnia had a very big Muji element in theatre during the war, they as I see now years later were AlQuida. They were brutal fighters and stayed close to the secretive Black Swan units who were well supplied by the CIA and Saudis. During early 95 the BIH government wanted to get them under control and was having problems with them and there hidden agenda in the new BiH government post war 95. During the mid summer 95 the BiH made an attempt to oust them from Bosnia sensing the war was ending soon. They requested the UN assist them, that didnt go very far.lp of the UN. They would have no part of it other than negotiations to ask them to leave. It fell upon the special assets in theatre to get ride of them and this activity was very productive. By the end of the fall most Mujis were gone, maybe now they have gotten a better toe hold. I can only imagine what effect all the money funneled into new mosques and madras's would have on that poor state as they rebuild there country after the war.