The life of a new recruit

[HIghFlyer]

Here is my story for those of you who may be interested. I just joined the Pres, under the DEO program, and was enrolled as a 2Lt on January 31st. I am three weeks into my journey so I thought why not let others know what the life of a new recruit is like.

Week 1:

Myself and nine other where enrolled during a 2 minute ceremony.  I am not sure what I was expecting but the process was a little under whelming. We all sat around a table with a bible in our hands and we repeated the pledge together. I didn't even see the Captain who enrolled us as he was behind me.  For some reason I expected the officer enrollment to be a little different from the NCM enrollment but I was mistaken. The rest if the night we completed paper work and were sent home.

Week 2:

The initial group of 10 has been reduced to 4 as the other 6 individuals will not be parading at this unit. The four of us are ushered off to a side room and have no interaction with the rest of the unit.  The first part of the night, we spend getting some of our kit.  (Ruck, helmet, sleeping bag etc..)  During the assigning of our kit, the supply clerk referred to me as Private which put me in weird situation. Should I tell her I am an Officer or pass it off? I decided to pass it off as I was not in uniform thus she would not have known. But as we were leaving, she wrote on my file Private, at which time, I corrected her. She looked shocked and somewhat apologetic. Her PO just looked at her a little funny but that was about it. Glad that awkward situation was over.

We spend the rest of the night being entertained by a corporal who provides us with some insight into what lies ahead for us. He focuses on the NCM aspect of the unit, as I am the only Officer in the group. This sucked a little but I understand the need to address the majority of the group. The night was concluded by a review of the rank structure and how to address senior ranks. Again, from a NCM point of view but I like getting the full picture so I benefited a great deal.

Week 3:

I meet my three comrades at the unit and again we ushered away to a side room. This is my third night at the unit and I have not seen or spoken to another Commissioned Officer. I am finding this odd as I assumed I would be put under the “care” of another officer until I am trained but again one should never assume anything. Once the Corporal arrives we are informed that tonight is uniform night. We get aboard a van and spend the next hour at the supply store getting fitted. Just like I expected, I didn't get my entire kit do to a shortage in sizes and supply but I got critical elements.

After the fitting, we return to our meeting room where we are given a quiz on rank structure. Not difficult for most but for those who had trouble I spent the next 20 minutes providing some assistance. It is too early in the game for people to get frustrated by something that will come in time. I wish the Corporal would have noticed the frustration by one individual and their sense of feeling “stupid”.  We as a team, rallied together and the individual got through it. After the quiz, we were told to bring in all of our kit next week and we were dismissed.


So the last three weeks have not been glamorous or exciting but that is the life of a new recruit. I am a little disappointed I have not been introduced to other Officers and getting referred to most of the time as a Private but being new, not in uniform and untrained that is too be expected. There will be lots of time to be referred to by my correct rank and, at the moment, I am enjoying the time with my new comrades. I will keep this post updated every week  for those who are wondering what it is like after you get in.

 

[HIghFlyer]

Week 4

Once again I met my fellow recruits at our regular meeting place away from the rest of the unit. Tonight we had to bring, “everything the Army gave us” to the unit to ensure everything was ok and to put our names on it.  During this exercise, the Corporal assigned to look after use, made sure we knew the proper names for everything  to ensure we don’t get surprised at BMQ when we get asked to  produce a piece of equipment. After we properly marked our kit, we were told to wear our uniforms next week and to go home.  Again, not the most exciting night at the unit but this is a necessary task and a part of getting acclimated to the CF culture.

On a personal note, I was told that my commission script is ordered. I am not sure when I will get it but at least it is ordered. It is week 4 and we still haven’t been paid. This is not a big deal for me but for the younger recruits this could be a concern.

More to come…….

 

[HIghFlyer]

Week 5:

This week I felt like a part of the Army as I got to wear my uniform!  The feeling of joy of wearing the uniform was mixed by feelings of uneasiness as I have not been shown how to properly wear it. Once the uniform goes on there is less tolerance for not adhering to proper protocol but thank fully  the unit I am with is very understanding of new recruits.

The night was much the same as any other, sent to the side room where we are entertained by the corporal assigned to us. Tonight’s major activity was learning how to polish and lace our boots. I had some experience with polishing boots but I had the lacing totally wrong. After this was completed, the Corporal decided to have a Master Corporal come into the room and give us an inspection. The point of the inspection was twofold: one, give us some insight into BMQ; secondly, help us understand attention to detail with the uniform. I got the point! After the inspection we reviewed what just occurred and were dismissed.

I will finish this note by saying, make sure you keep you beret on while outside! Stay tuned for more to come.

 

[HIghFlyer]

week 6:

I am thinking I should have a MOD change the title of this thread to "the life of a new recruit awaiting BMQ".  This week we didn't do anything at the unit expect sit around a table and chat.  We arrived at 19:00, directed to the side room and stayed there until we were dismissed at 21:30.

I thought the benefit of getting us in early was to teach us things which would be of use during BMQ.  Getting to know you fellow recruits is great but I was expecting a little more.

On a side note, I am a 2Lt (untrained and very green) but I am wondering about protocol regarding addressing someone like me? To date, when a NCM meets me, (within and outside the building), I am ignored. I am never saluted (I don't expect it at this point) or addressed as Sir, 2Lt or even Mr.  I asked the Corporal, who is looking after us, for his opinion and his comment was, “I will never salute you or call you sir until you get some courses under your belt". I am okay with this fact if it is normal procedure and to be honest I am in no position to be addressed like a trained Officer but I am proud of my commission and it deserves the respect associated with it.  “You salute the commission not the individual” Is this not the case?


Staye tuned for week 7!

 

[slowmode]

Mr. Wallace,

I am only repeating what was told to me regarding the ordering of the scroll. I am actually expecting it to be presented to me after CAP is complete. As for my attitude, you have no basis to question it. I may not have BMQ or CAP complete but I am no fool.  I have the outmost respect for the commission and to your comment about purchasing it, that is ridiculous.

I hope the arrogance you show in this forum is not indicative of how you act in the real world. If it is, you are in for a very sad journey. Salute that!

First I must say I enjoyed reading this little thing

1. I must say I agree with George, from what I was reading your attitude is not what it should be. But you will in turn learn and be carved into a great soldier. Ill have you know George is not arrogant at all , hes a great member of Army.ca who tries to help everyone he can. Saying "salute That" to him is extremly rude and I believe he deserves an apology.

2. Since you have not completed BMQ yet you are not "qualified" to salute, since you have not be taught yet. I believe until you are done your BMQ you are an Officer Cadet. The officers ranks are ranks everyone should respect. But since you are currently an officer recruit I dont believe you will be saluted.

3.  Honestly with the attitude your showing in this topic, you dont seem to pose officer qualities. Please look in turn of how your acting and read over what you said. You will learn in time.

Slowmode

 

[Cardstonkid]

As an officer candidate life can be a bit confusing. You wear the rank, but are you an officer? Well yes and no. You are not, but your rank is. Let me put it this way, the rank you wear denotes you are an officer in training. The level of respect and responsibility you get will depend on how much training you have had and how well you do your job.

As for saluting you have not been taught so you do not do it, second you are an officer "in training" so in reality you are essentially on course so you have no effective rank. You will be called by your rank or as Mister. (This will continue throughout your military career, if you are on a course as a Captain and you are taught by a WO he is still your boss and will accord him the respect that is due.) As for your scroll you will be lucky if you see it after CAP. More likely after phase 3 or 4.

As for your attitude, well let's just say you may blush in the next year or so when you go back and read this thread.

Finally, let me create a visual for you. Imagine a road, a pile of dung, and a boot. You are at the absolute  bottom of the pile of dung. As an officer candidate you are arguably below the NCM's because more is expected of you. After CAP you could argue that you are at the top of the pile of dung but not quite in the boot. After Phase 4 you will be safely nestled under the sweaty foot of the Army. 

Hey, it's going to be fun. relax, enjoy it, and keep posting, you will entertain the forum and it may give you a good perspective over time.

Remember no matter what don't quit, do your best and laugh.

 

[infanteer-it]

Weelllll lets take a step back for a second and assume that here, as is always the case, attitudes and intonation cannot be conveyed properly in text. As a newly comissioned officer it is confusing at first to know if you should be saluted or not, should you salute or not, who, when, how often do you salute the same person, etc.. I think High Flyer was just trying to inquire as to whether or not he should be saluted and/or whether this particular corporal was in the right or not. The truth of the matter is, it IS the commission being saluted and not the person. As a matter of discipline, the thick gold bar (even if it is only one of them) should be saluted by non commissioned members. However, often time it isn't and there really is nothing to be done about it. 2Lts can vary in training from an untrained reservist like yourself to a phase 4 qualified army ranger/advance recce grad etc. High Flyer you will find that on a different base you will most likely get salutes from passing NCMs. Your corporal who knows you've got less than 24 hours time serverd on the other hand probably won't and you have to deal with it.

Second point High Flyer. George and most of the other directing staff on this site are well into their career, deserve the utmost respect, but can be hard on some of the new guys if they sense something a little out of whack. My advice? In your military career, never talk back to anyone because it reflects poorly on yourself and word travels in this army of ours. Eat some humble pie, toss George an apology, and continue with your story because I'm sure a lot of prospective recruits are curious to what a reservist has to go through.

 

[HIghFlyer]

I think High Flyer was just trying to inquire as to whether or not he should be saluted and/or whether this particular corporal was in the right or not.

This is exactly what I was trying to convey. It was no big deal. I just have a lot of respect for the commission. As for me personally, I don't know crap when it comes to the Army  and I know where I sit in the big scheme of things.

Second point High Flyer. George and most of the other directing staff on this site are well into their career, deserve the utmost respect, but can be hard on some of the new guys if they sense something a little out of whack. My advice? In your military career, never talk back to anyone because it reflects poorly on yourself and word travels in this army of ours. Eat some humble pie, toss George an apology, and continue with your story because I'm sure a lot of prospective recruits are curious to what a reservist has to go through.

I agree and have offered an apology to Mr. Wallace.

 

[George Wallace]

Moving on.

A compliment paid should be returned.  If you are saluted by a subordinate, repay the compliment and don't be slovenly when you do so.  Nothing reflects more negatively and instantly on an officer's character than their returning a compliment with a sloppy salute.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Highflyer,

The things I am going to say you may not like, but are based on my years of experience in the military.  

First off, I will correct/inform you on the use of the term NCM.  NCM is used to refer to any mbr of the CF who is not a Commissioned Officer.  However, NCMs are broken down, in the army, into Privates (you will learn the ranks used by different Corps later I am sure), Junior NCOs (Cpls and MCpls), Snr NCOs (Sgts) and Warrant Officers (WO, MWO, and CWO).  That is lesson #1.  So, from that, you can see that not all NCMs are NCOs.  A Warrant Officer is NOT a Snr NCO.  A Cpl with 25 years in is not a Snr NCM either.  "Attention to detail".  Make it a habit.  

For some reason I expected the officer enrollment to be a little different from the NCM enrollment but I was mistaken.

What did you expect, trumpets to sound while someone fed you grapes and the troops rallied around you?

During the assigning of our kit, the supply clerk referred to me as Private which put me in weird situation. Should I tell her I am an Officer or pass it off? I decided to pass it off as I was not in uniform thus she would not have known. But as we were leaving, she wrote on my file Private, at which time, I corrected her. She looked shocked and somewhat apologetic. Her PO just looked at her a little funny but that was about it. Glad that awkward situation was over.

This is where I started saying "oh for the love of f--k...".  Please, can I teach on your CAP?  Please?  Are you sure the 'shock' was not sarcasim?  The rest of your Week 2 post was rank of arrogance and ignorance.  

The night was concluded by a review of the rank structure and how to address senior ranks. Again, from a NCM point of view but I like getting the full picture so I benefited a great deal.

The NCM point of view of the CF rank structure?  There is only 1 CF rank structure.  Notice where you fit into it, and subtract from that taking into consideration your "TI", training, experience and knowledge.

This is my third night at the unit and I have not seen or spoken to another Commissioned Officer. I am finding this odd as I assumed I would be put under the “care” of another officer

wtf?   :   You did the wrong thing, you ***-U-ME 'd.  Officers do not solely conduct the training of untrained Officers at the BMQ/BMOQ level.  What ever made you think that? 

I wish the Corporal would have noticed the frustration by one individual and their sense of feeling “stupid”

Perhaps he was too 'dazzled' by being in the room with you.   :  Who says he didn't notice?  Why don't you let the staff do their job and just learn what you are supposed to.  Thats your job at this point.

I am a little disappointed I have not been introduced to other Officers and getting referred to most of the time as a Private but being new, not in uniform and untrained that is too be expected. There will be lots of time to be referred to by my correct rank

Jesus christ.  What makes you think the Officers in the unit give a sweet damn about you at this point?  This is not some country club where you buy your membership and are 'one of the boys' the first day on tee-off.   :

On a personal note, I was told that my commission script is ordered. I am not sure when I will get it but at least it is ordered.

Ya atleast the CF ordered your scroll.  I have one question at this point.  How many hours, before you actually go to your unit, do you stand in front of the mirror staring at that itty bitty 2Lt stripe on your rank slip-on, with scenes of Band of Brothers playing thru your head, where you are Capt Winters, leading the men into combat...

I had some experience with polishing boots but I had the lacing totally wrong.

But yet, you are wondering why people aren't paying you the 'respect due your commission'.  Are you catching on yet?  You don't know how to tie up your BOOTS yet.  Has that light bulb gone 'ding!' yet?  

On a side note, I am a 2Lt (untrained and very green) but I am wondering about protocol regarding addressing someone like me?

...which is a completely untrained member of the CF who happens to be a 2Lt. Get over yourself.  The way you talk, you are not going to be well received by the troops, NCOs, WOs or Officers in ANY unit without a MAJOR attitude adjustment.  

To date, when a NCM meets me, (within and outside the building), I am ignored. I am never saluted (I don't expect it at this point) or addressed as Sir, 2Lt or even Mr.

For the love of jesus, if you didn't EXPECT it then why are you on here whining about it?  Do you know how to properly return a salute?  :

I am in no position to be addressed like a trained Officer

I think that is the only thing I read that you wrote that makes ANY sense so far.  I think you should re-read that line over...and over...and over...

but I am proud of my commission and it deserves the respect associated with it.  “You salute the commission not the individual” Is this not the case?

Damn!  You were starting to catch on and then you went and said that... :

You are a 2Lt, untrained.  As stated, you feel you should be with your fellow officers, doing whatever you think that is (relaxing in the meadow with the women-folk whilst the men groom your horse and polish your boots of something by the sounds of it...).  Here is my suggestion.  Stop the Commanding Officer or Deputy Commanding Officer next time you see them, and ask them their opinion of your concerns about being 'entertained by the NCMs', 'denied access to the fellow Officers in the unit' and for an update on just exactly when that scroll will be placed into your oh-so-deserving hands.  As fellow Officers, I am sure they will ensure that your are properly taken care of.  Let me know how that all works out for you.  I need a good laugh next week, its the end of the FY afterall and PER season.  (NOTE - I am being sarcastic.  DO NOT do that.)

To clarify, I was enrolled as a  2Lt and I am wearing the thick gold bar.

Gee, REALLY!  And you know about that thick gold bar, after staring at in the mirror, with the scenes from Band Brothers playing in your head, staring Capt HighFlyer Winters, Easy Companys CO...

I am actually expecting it to be presented to me ...

I am sure it will be on the National with Peter Mansbridge.  Fear not.

Now, everyone else is being wayyyyyyy nice to you on here IMO.  Note - all we have to go by to judge you on is how YOU present yourself, by the words YOU write, focusing on the issues YOU present.  If you do not think you are coming off as arrogant, you are. 

I have a challenge for you.  Go back, thru all the posts in this thread that you have made, and count how many times you have said "I". There is no "I" in "TEAM".

My last words to you are;  you will make the name for yourself that you will have to live with.  In your unit, and on this forum.  So far on this forum, you have come across as 'where is my commission scroll' 'why am I not with all the other officers' 'how come people aren't saluting me?' and 'why does no one respect my commission'.  You can take the advice of the mbrs of this forum, or toss it aside.  Thats up to you.  Some of the people you are saying things like 'salute that!' to have probably been in the CF as long as you have been alive, or close to it.  You can listen to their years of experience and advice...or you can continue to stare at the 'thick gold bar' in the mirror.  

Your call.

 

[Lumber]

I must have hesitated for at least a minute before actually clicking on the Reply button, but hear I go, stepping on another land mine...

OK. Lets get the most relevant fact clear and straight. Highflyer has not even complete basic training. His military experience is limited to his enrolment process and the few nights hes spent at his unit. How can he be expect to know exactly what his place in the CF is?

I agree, his "Salute that!" comment was downright disgusting, and I'm glad he realized and apologized for it. I'm not going to try and address any of the issues about commissions, saluting and training, because I just don't have the experience or the knowledge, but I disagree with the bashing hes getting here for his ignorance. Of course he's ignorant! That's why we have training courses, isn't it? I know that in law as well as the CF, ignorance is no excuse. But for someone as green as him how can we belittle him so for not knowing  the difference between an Officer untrained and an Officer who has finished his Phase training.

All he's been told is that he has been enrolled as an Officer, that Officer are the leaders, that Officer's have commissions, and that because of those commissions Officers are saluted and addressed as Sir/Maam.

I'm having trouble getting this across without myself sounding arrogant, I'm really trying not to piss any one here off, especially those with a mountain's worth of experience over top of me (I'd say that would be just about everyone). He came on here with the wrong attitude because he didn't know any better; he doesn't know that having no experience and no training puts him at the bottom of the crap pile.

And I don't think he came off as arrogant at all. When he said, for example, "This is my third night at the unit and I have not seen or spoken to another Commissioned Officer. I am finding this odd as I assumed I would be put under the “care” of another officer." He did not say "I'm a commissioned officer, why am I being stuck with NCMs? I'm an Officer, I should be taught by one," which would be blatantly arrogant. He doesn't know about his position in the CF world, so he asked about it. His prudence and lack of arrogance is further demonstrated by one of his last questions where he asked, " 'You salute the commission not the individual' Is this not the case?". He clearly demonstrated his lack of knowledge, expressing no arrogance at all, and asks for clarification from the more knowledgeable members here on the site.

Now, I know many people tried to answer his questions honestly, and even more tried to correct the incorrectness of his attitude vis-a-vis his place as an untrained Officer. Berating him though for not yet possessing the attitude that basic training and general experience instills is uncalled for, IMO.


...and I'm leaving my foot on that mine for now....

 

[George Wallace]

And for all. 

High Flyer has sent me an apology via PM, so as CSA 105 has pointed out, he is in the process of learning, and has taken his lumps along the way in this thread.  Show your professionalism and help him in his quest.  It is not an easy road, as most of us can attest.  Be a mentor, rather than a heckler.

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

Cleaned up and unlocked.

Let's try to keep this one going with a view, as George said, to mentoring and development.

High Flyer, keep up the updates!

The Army.ca Staff

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

Highflyer,

Being an untrained officer in a unit can be awkward, especially if you are the only one in that situation.  You are a relatively unknown quantity, but the system has seen fit to enrol you in the rank of 2Lt.  You are a commissioned officer, even though you are not trained.  As such you most likely have little or no credibility in the unit.

Take it slow and try to remember that you will have to live with the outcomes of your decisions.  It has been some time since I was an OCdt in a reserve unit, but I seem to remember that untrained OCdts did not parade with the unit to avoid just such problems (as an aside I have never liked the idea of "pre-basic training").  Once we had completed some form of training (RESO 2 or the first blocks of MITCIP) we began to be around soldiers.  My little group had an advantage in that four of us had been Troopers in the unit.  This is of no help to you, but I tell you this to let you know that I recognize the issues that you face.

Having a mentor in the unit would be great.  That mentor does not have to be an official designation, but rather someone that you trust who takes the time to give you advice.  If you go to the mess you could use that time find someone interested in giving you some pointers.  I do not have "the lay of the land" of your unit, and that can only come from someone in your unit.  We can quote QR&O/DAOD/CFAO chapter and verse, but local customs, norms and traditions vary across the military and especially so with the Reserves.

The NCO who has been assigned to look after you and the other recruits would be a good start as a resource.  Ask him for advice and guidance. 

 

[Infanteer]

Another instance pointing to the fact that commissioning in the CF needs to be sorted out.  It simply isn't taken seriously when it is given out willy nilly.  Nobody's fault, but how is a commission to be taken seriously when some are ignored because "he's that guy who has 3 Class A nights".  Hell, 2Lt has almost become a de facto "commissioned but not commissioned rank".  How about "Reg or PRes upon full trade qualification"?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Infanteer,

I am also wondering how this person was able to go from civilian to 2Lt, whether DEO or not, without having ANY training completed.  Perhaps he can elaborate more, or maybe for PERSEC reasons would rather not.

Some of you, such as Lumbar, think I went overboard.  Did I, or did I simply state some thinks you were thinking as well but decided not to post.  HighFlyer is seemingly a degree educated person, and 36 years old I believe, in his profile.  Agreed he is new to the CF, but 7 weeks into this is long enough for that 'rude awakening' to happen, would you agree?  His posts are more centered around commissioning scrolls, meeting 'fellow officers', and other arrogant or inflated ideas about his perception of the life of a 2Lt.  After 7 weeks, no one here nicely put things into perspective for him, or so it appears.  Had someone sent him a PM to that effect, say after his Week 3 post, that would mean that he didn't get the point or ignored what was written or whatever.   So what would  you suggest then?  A hand holding session?  Hopefully he gets the point from my points and the points from others, rather than making a complete arse out of himself at his unit.  Here he is relatively unknown;  at his unit, you all know he is an unproven commodity at this point, and the memories of what he does wrong will likely outlive what he does right.

Highflyer, although you were commissioned as a 2Lt, you may as well consider yourself as an untrained OCdt at this time, because in reality that is how you are going to be treated.  Agree, disagree, that is the way it most likely will be, and probably no one will care what your military opinion is on this.  And while I am at it, I may as well fill you in that, after you complete whatever training you are required to do, you will then be 'qualified' whatever rank, but you will still have zero experience and gaining the respect of your troops, and superiors isn't something that happens overnight.  Sure, you will outrank them and you will get that salute and called 'Sir', but if that is your only concern, I am suggesting you might want to sit down with a Lt from your unit and discuss these things with him/her.

Maybe if some of you OCdt/2Lt types that are calling me out for MY post had chimed in early on, or PMd him, he would not have had made it to point he did at Week 7. 

Editted to add -  Once you are trained and filling a Platoon Leader or similar role, you will understand this more as new soldiers and NCOs move into the organzation you are in command and responsible for, as they will earn your respect and trust as well.  All completely normal by the way, IMO.

 

[hauger]

I have a challenge for you.  Go back, thru all the posts in this thread that you have made, and count how many times you have said "I". There is no "I" in "TEAM".

Little hard on the guy, Eye In the Sky.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think people are mistaking "just-joined" naivety with arrogance and thus feeling a crucifixion is in order to "sort this guy our".

By the way....there isn't an I in TEAM, but there's definitely an M and an E  ;D

Oh, HighFlyer, keep the stories coming...they make for an interesting read.

 

[HIghFlyer]

In reviewing my posts under this thread I am embarrassed by the poor attitude and message I was purveying.  I tried to detail what it is like to be a new recruit instead, I presented a message of look at me I am an "Officer" and why am I not being taken seriously. NOT GOOD! In retrospect, I would have worded things much differently. I apologize to all. I have learned from my mistake and will not let it happen again.

I know where I fit in the scheme of things and it is where I belong. I don’t have the training, expertise or knowledge to put in a position of authority or treated as such. I barely know how to lace my boots.  My goal at the moment is get through BMQ with my fellow recruits at our unit and then complete ROTP and CAP.  These activities will keep me busy for the foreseeable future.

I want to thank all for the constructive feedback! It is greatly appreciated.  If it is of benefit, I will continue to keep the thread going.

 

[geo]

heh... let us know when you want another critique... no charge

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Highflyer,

Keep the posts coming.  Every single one of us had to learn along the way and I doubt any of us in uniform has not learned a hard lesson at some point in time.  Probably most of us, if we were honest, would have to admit to atleast several if not more 'hard lessons learned', of various types.  The important thing is to learn from them, and not make them again, and to pass them on to those that will follow us.

Good luck on your training.  It is a challenge at first, and I think the CF would have been better off to enrol you as a OCdt, which may have made it somewhat less confusing for you.  On a positive note, when you are complete your training and filling a position in your unit, if this happens to someone else in your unit or Brigade, you will certainly be in a position to understand their situation and provide some early guidance and advice to them.