The Michael Moore Super Thread- Merged
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What evidence do you need in regards to the west installing its own dictators or at least backing them.
Saudi Arabia... Monarchy that is has tortured at least one Canadian.
Saddam was backed by the US for years
Bin Ladin was trained by the US to overthrow the Soviet goverment
It is all political game playing. It is done in the belief that if we put someone in charge that we can control that we can benefit from it and perhaps the people will benefit from it as well
Look at South America. Some of the dictators down there were placed in power by one foreign goverment or another.
Why all of this "If you dont have the paper work dont post it." stuff. What I am seeing alot of times is if it disagrees with a pro American , or right wing view than we are jumped on. Show me the evidence that Manuel Noriega was put in by his own people and not a foreign power. Show me the evidence that proves that much of what goes on in the middle east is not more to do with oil and money.
Saudi Arabia... Monarchy that is has tortured at least one Canadian.
Saddam was backed by the US for years
Bin Ladin was trained by the US to overthrow the Soviet goverment
It is all political game playing. It is done in the belief that if we put someone in charge that we can control that we can benefit from it and perhaps the people will benefit from it as well
Look at South America. Some of the dictators down there were placed in power by one foreign goverment or another.
Why all of this "If you dont have the paper work dont post it." stuff. What I am seeing alot of times is if it disagrees with a pro American , or right wing view than we are jumped on. Show me the evidence that Manuel Noriega was put in by his own people and not a foreign power. Show me the evidence that proves that much of what goes on in the middle east is not more to do with oil and money.
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For anyone who still cares about this subject, go see FahrenHYPE 9/11. It does an excelent job of totaly blowing Michael Moores collection of lies right out of the water. For instance, the director shows interviews with 3 individuals who were also interviewed by Michael Moore in Fahrenheit 9/11. All three of them are pissed as hell because Moore used selective questioning and editing to make it seem like they supported his point of view, when in fact none of them have anything but contempt for him and his theories.
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Read Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man.
It does a lot to explain his actions (his manic depressive side) and blows his "facts" and his crockumentaries out of the water -- even my GF who is a Liberal (shudder) cant get around that people actually beleive his shlock - about as factual as Spiderman...
It does a lot to explain his actions (his manic depressive side) and blows his "facts" and his crockumentaries out of the water -- even my GF who is a Liberal (shudder) cant get around that people actually beleive his shlock - about as factual as Spiderman...
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Stefan Moxness
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I have to say that the quick jump on people who support Micheal Moore, calling his a fat whateverthehell is no better than what Micheal Moore is doing the the American government. He (MM) points the finger and says Bush is wrong, he's a moron and no one should listen/follow him. But what is different with the way many (not all) of those on this post have attacked Moore and those who support him, he's a fat whatever, he's a liar, he's this he's that, no difference to me.
as for MM versus the government and fahrenhype 9/11, this is just another propaganda war, the government does something, Moore does something to counter it, he does something, the government makes a movie to counter it. There's likely as much truthbending in MM's movie as there is on CNN and in most media for that matter.
Moore made those people with enough of a mind to take his ramblings with a grain of salt go out and research on there own, look into the policies of their government and generally become smarter, better citizens of the fine nation they live in. As for movies like fahrenhype they made those people again with enough of a brain to take it with a grain of salt go out and do the same things. What's wrong with that? Those who blindly follow MM, those who blindly follow whatever the government are not only fools but impediments to their society and nuisances to those trying to improve the quality of their life and their nation.
As far as the Canadian health care system being a terrorist system, I not only resent that greatly but I also think that what you said is as stupid and foolish as Moore. How many American health care insurance providers have probably supplied health care to people related to terrorist cells? Are you going to label them terrorist health care insurers? If you do you're mighty foolish, perhaps you shoudl famaliarise yourself with the policies of insuring people, they check only credit history and health history, how are they to know your politic bias, and why should they even know? Likely no more, no less (proportionately) then us up here. Please don't slander the Canadian nation, one of the best out there on the grounds of your blind hatred or passion, you're making yourself out to be no better then MM. Get your facts straight. If you're going to bash on canada choose a better site then army.CA.
as for MM versus the government and fahrenhype 9/11, this is just another propaganda war, the government does something, Moore does something to counter it, he does something, the government makes a movie to counter it. There's likely as much truthbending in MM's movie as there is on CNN and in most media for that matter.
Moore made those people with enough of a mind to take his ramblings with a grain of salt go out and research on there own, look into the policies of their government and generally become smarter, better citizens of the fine nation they live in. As for movies like fahrenhype they made those people again with enough of a brain to take it with a grain of salt go out and do the same things. What's wrong with that? Those who blindly follow MM, those who blindly follow whatever the government are not only fools but impediments to their society and nuisances to those trying to improve the quality of their life and their nation.
As far as the Canadian health care system being a terrorist system, I not only resent that greatly but I also think that what you said is as stupid and foolish as Moore. How many American health care insurance providers have probably supplied health care to people related to terrorist cells? Are you going to label them terrorist health care insurers? If you do you're mighty foolish, perhaps you shoudl famaliarise yourself with the policies of insuring people, they check only credit history and health history, how are they to know your politic bias, and why should they even know? Likely no more, no less (proportionately) then us up here. Please don't slander the Canadian nation, one of the best out there on the grounds of your blind hatred or passion, you're making yourself out to be no better then MM. Get your facts straight. If you're going to bash on canada choose a better site then army.CA.
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Doe --
You right in some respects - problem is too many sheeple accept that MM is the gospel. Am I a right winger - you got it pontiac!. However I go about and ensure I read a fair amount of left leaning data as well to give me a balanced perspective. However I try to stick to facts. Moore shapes data - He does not specifically lie - but with editting and casual usage of terms he gives his audience an impression that it not factual or truthful.
Look at Roger and Me as you cited - Then go do a search for the "Facts" as Moore claims. Do any of the dates line up?
Even funnier look at what happened to the poor guy that tried to Moore, Moore.... Moore flipped out and wanted his charged.
Moore knows that the majority of Canadians, Americans and Europeans are stupid - and they accpet what peopel can construe into a logical strcuture as fact, with very little questioning. The fact his crockumentary won best Documentary is a testimony to the stupidity of the American public.
If George Bush was really as EVIL as Fat Mike portrays him to be - Mike would have long ago had an accident like so many of the Clinton Whitewater witnesses...
Doe --
You right in some respects - problem is too many sheeple accept that MM is the gospel. Am I a right winger - you got it pontiac!. However I go about and ensure I read a fair amount of left leaning data as well to give me a balanced perspective. However I try to stick to facts. Moore shapes data - He does not specifically lie - but with editting and casual usage of terms he gives his audience an impression that it not factual or truthful.
Look at Roger and Me as you cited - Then go do a search for the "Facts" as Moore claims. Do any of the dates line up?
Even funnier look at what happened to the poor guy that tried to Moore, Moore.... Moore flipped out and wanted his charged.
Moore knows that the majority of Canadians, Americans and Europeans are stupid - and they accpet what peopel can construe into a logical strcuture as fact, with very little questioning. The fact his crockumentary won best Documentary is a testimony to the stupidity of the American public.
If George Bush was really as EVIL as Fat Mike portrays him to be - Mike would have long ago had an accident like so many of the Clinton Whitewater witnesses...
Infanteer said:
I understand, and completely agree with what you are saying, but for devils advocates sake lets say Moore goes about trying to get himself heard by engaging Democrats and Republicans alike, in a respectful manner. Do you really think the general public are going to take the time to listen to dry, "beat around the bush" (as close to a pun as i could get) interviews and still get the same left wing propaganda out of a documentary done like that? I think we all know the answer to that is no.
Unfortunately though, it is painfully clear that Moore does not want this. Lets face it, regardless of his political ideologies he is darn good at what he does, and could easily create that type of documentary if he wanted. It is a propaganda war between the left and the right, it really is as simple as that. You have people blindly following the Government and you have people blindly following Moore and his cronies. Then you have the relatively few who actually make informed decisions and cry when they see such blatant acts of trickery and deception on both sides, followed by the masses who take every word for granted. This is the problem, and i don't think there is any realistic solution to it.
And regardless of your beliefs I don't see the point of calling Moore "Fat Mike" or Bush a "Moron" or whatever (at least not on a discussion board like this)... Because what does it really show but your inability to portray at least some sense, and are people really going to think your post credible and take you serious when all you can do is throw around slander?
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Stefan Moxness
Guest
KevinB, I couldn't agree with you more, that has always been my problem with movies like his and have always been the reason that normally when I discuss them I like to state that I take everything he says with a grain of salt. I guess my perspective is too much that of an idealist where i assume/hope that everyone will posess half a brain and be able to see through the farce that is MM and use what he produces really only as an incentive to pursue research into what is really going on. Please don't misread my previous post as trying to give merit to anything MM does/says, I simply wanted to say that in my idealistically created world MM really isn't a bad creation, he motivates intelligent people do deepen there knowledge and question what their government is doing in a similar manner that vote grabbing speeches by politicians could be used to stimulate further research into the wide world of politics. Either way MM is for from being a great source on knowledge or facts, only a fool would not see through his blatant propaganda.
Cheers an be safe,
Doe
Cheers an be safe,
Doe
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MagieNoire
Guest
S_Baker said:I'd kick his goat smelling *** all the way to his multi-million dollar Manhattan ApartmentWhat a piece of work he is, he is such a liar and fraud....he needs to be called out, him and all of his double chins!
What a fat F***!
When you're finished with him, I hope you plan on marching to Washington as well. There's a big Bush that could use a good pruning.
Steel toed boots should work just fine.
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This thread is about Michael Moore, not George Bush. Keep it on track. The rest of the rant has been moved to "Another Boring Rant...."
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You know I happen to have quite a bit of respect for George W Bush and, frankly, find your comments rather disturbing...
Please don't threaten people with violence here, even in jest. Its not funny and makes us all look like a bunch of children spatting in the playground...
After all we don't threaten violence to MM or others that (we feel) blatantly lie and deceave the population of North America, do we?
Thanks
Slim
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Slim! shhh! it's been moved.
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Amazing .. Simply amazing.
When I first watched Fahrenheit 9/11, despite that I may not have the overall friendliest attitude about America, I remember thinking how some things just seemed too ... odd. That bank with the rifle scene, I thought how it seemed too simple and easy, the interview with Charleston Heston (damn it I cannot spell his name right) seemed too up front and .. scripted. It gave the appearance that the man implicated himself a bit too much.
What really topped it off for me was when the mother who lost her son in Iraq was talking to that homeless woman or whatever who had that political stand up, and some woman came in flailing her arms saying "it's all for show! it's all for show!" then yelled "blame Al-Qaeda!" when the mother walked away .. talk about perfect timing huh? This woman - the supposed epitome of ignorance that Moore was basing this movie on, suddenly waltzes in right on que, spouting off at the mouth about everything Moore was just arguing against? I left the movie thinking "this was a good watch .. but things didn't add up" and that whole FOX thing .. if it were that easy to rig elections or alter results because of one person in a simple post, my God, America would already be a dictatorship from ballot rigging.
Reading that bowlingfortruth webpage really changed my outlook on Moore. While the page has a clear right wing slant, they did support everything they said quite well. More so than Moore did, way more so. Not only that, but what they said makes sense to some of those "odd" moments I mentioned.
Before, I was on the fence about Micheal Moore. As I mentioned previously, I do not view America in an extremely favourable light (I do not hate it) and I thought Micheal Moore may actually be trying to expose some of the problems with the country. However, in lieu of all this evidence and proof and refutes against him, I now believe Micheal Moore is not for anyone - save himself.
Ironic that someone who criticizes white men for being greedy SOB's who use people for their own profit .. has done the same.
When I first watched Fahrenheit 9/11, despite that I may not have the overall friendliest attitude about America, I remember thinking how some things just seemed too ... odd. That bank with the rifle scene, I thought how it seemed too simple and easy, the interview with Charleston Heston (damn it I cannot spell his name right) seemed too up front and .. scripted. It gave the appearance that the man implicated himself a bit too much.
What really topped it off for me was when the mother who lost her son in Iraq was talking to that homeless woman or whatever who had that political stand up, and some woman came in flailing her arms saying "it's all for show! it's all for show!" then yelled "blame Al-Qaeda!" when the mother walked away .. talk about perfect timing huh? This woman - the supposed epitome of ignorance that Moore was basing this movie on, suddenly waltzes in right on que, spouting off at the mouth about everything Moore was just arguing against? I left the movie thinking "this was a good watch .. but things didn't add up" and that whole FOX thing .. if it were that easy to rig elections or alter results because of one person in a simple post, my God, America would already be a dictatorship from ballot rigging.
Reading that bowlingfortruth webpage really changed my outlook on Moore. While the page has a clear right wing slant, they did support everything they said quite well. More so than Moore did, way more so. Not only that, but what they said makes sense to some of those "odd" moments I mentioned.
Before, I was on the fence about Micheal Moore. As I mentioned previously, I do not view America in an extremely favourable light (I do not hate it) and I thought Micheal Moore may actually be trying to expose some of the problems with the country. However, in lieu of all this evidence and proof and refutes against him, I now believe Micheal Moore is not for anyone - save himself.
Ironic that someone who criticizes white men for being greedy SOB's who use people for their own profit .. has done the same.
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Well I heard a new conspiracy theory today. I was doing some research and I stumbled across an article detailing how Moore rose to fame. Turns out that a cusin of GW Bush was actually responsible for getting him started in the industry, and that Bush knew Moore before he became famous:
So I made a post about this in another forum. Within half an hour there were 3 different people therizing about the posibility that "maybe Michael Moore was hired by the Bush administration to make an easily rebuked movie so that he would take the attention away from all the OTHER documentaries". Well, this conspiracy theory is still in it's infancy, so watch and shoot
So I made a post about this in another forum. Within half an hour there were 3 different people therizing about the posibility that "maybe Michael Moore was hired by the Bush administration to make an easily rebuked movie so that he would take the attention away from all the OTHER documentaries". Well, this conspiracy theory is still in it's infancy, so watch and shoot
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John Doe,
No worries here -- You related to my GF - she had the same sort of ideas... Unfortunately the cold hard truth of it seems you can force feed lots of crap to people and they accept it blindly.
Read "Chain of Command" by Sy (MyLai4) Hearsh -- gives a alarmign account of the right - and I can see it pretty clearly.
Unfortunately our world has polarised into such a state - and the if you are not with us you are against us line has been drawn. I thus get drawn deeper to the right - not out of sympathy or concurance to all of the decisions - but out of alarm and disgust for the other options being presented by the opposition.
48th, Careful - you leak that and the Black Helicopters will come for you
No worries here -- You related to my GF - she had the same sort of ideas... Unfortunately the cold hard truth of it seems you can force feed lots of crap to people and they accept it blindly.
Read "Chain of Command" by Sy (MyLai4) Hearsh -- gives a alarmign account of the right - and I can see it pretty clearly.
Unfortunately our world has polarised into such a state - and the if you are not with us you are against us line has been drawn. I thus get drawn deeper to the right - not out of sympathy or concurance to all of the decisions - but out of alarm and disgust for the other options being presented by the opposition.
48th, Careful - you leak that and the Black Helicopters will come for you
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Yeah .. let's make a movie that criticizes the President right while he is fighting to maintain that title, and a movie that will give strength and greater voice to his left opposition .. because surely inciting the other side to fight harder will benefit their party!
This is some more of the funnier conspiracy theories I've heard.
This is some more of the funnier conspiracy theories I've heard.
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I find it interesting that you guys are doing exactly what Michael Moore makes his films for. To get people talking about the issues at hand. Yes, he may come at it from a particular point of view. But considering how that opinion is held in the States (IE. not shown or heard what so ever), then I guess showing it to the rest of the world makes sense. It got you talking didn't it?
As for him being rich and owning a condo in NY. What did you expect? For him to still be living in a shack in Flint Michigan? C'mon, he's successful. Deal with it.
The fact that he gives voice to a particular side of the story (blown up, and edited in certain ways) that would probably never be heard in the States is a good thing. Hate him all you want, but he is laughing all the way to the bank and will be a major contributor to the democratic party.
Quite frankly its refreshing to see a different opinion from someone (As well as John Stewart???) other then CNN and the Fox/Bush network.
As for him being rich and owning a condo in NY. What did you expect? For him to still be living in a shack in Flint Michigan? C'mon, he's successful. Deal with it.
The fact that he gives voice to a particular side of the story (blown up, and edited in certain ways) that would probably never be heard in the States is a good thing. Hate him all you want, but he is laughing all the way to the bank and will be a major contributor to the democratic party.
Quite frankly its refreshing to see a different opinion from someone (As well as John Stewart???) other then CNN and the Fox/Bush network.
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