The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Kirkhill]

Some stuff. But also they are playing politics with the Gripen. With this "digital stealth" nonsense. Notice how not a single neighbour of Sweden purchased the Gripen. There's only Hungary and Czechia, two small landlocked countries that purchased the Gripen. It's actually more popular with BRICS countries than NATO proportionally.

A lot of their army stuff is way better than their air force stuff.



Not sure it's Germany. The French did this the last time too. That's why we have the Rafale. The Eurocanards are three different takes on the same idea because they couldn't cooperate enough to just make one jet.

But it is their air force stuff.
The correct comparison is not to what else can we buy but to what have we made.

 

[ytz]

But it is their air force stuff.
The correct comparison is not to what else can we buy but to what have we made.

By this logic we should cancel the F-35 and go with a bunch of highly Canadianized Gripens. We can be just like the Swedes.

 

[Kirkhill]

By this logic we should cancel the F-35 and go with a bunch of highly Canadianized Gripens. We can be just like the Swedes.

You misread me.
It is too late for our current needs but it could be a guide to our future needs.
We have gaps to fill today with whatever we can find on the shelf.
And Canadian industry is too far behind the curve.
But going forwards we could be engaging our people to solve our problems.
Even if it costs us money.

 

[ytz]

You misread me.
It is too late for our current needs but it could be a guide to our future needs.
We have gaps to fill today with whatever we can find on the shelf.
And Canadian industry is too far behind the curve.
But going forwards we could be engaging our people to solve our problems.
Even if it costs us money.

Depends on what. There's even fewer countries building sixth gen fighters alone.

I'm really weary of the idea that Sweden does everything right on defence. The Gripen E is clearly a decision to prioritize jobs over capability. And it only works because they are surrounded by countries that will operate the F-35. We should acknowledge that the Swedes are a bit selfish here.

 

[Kirkhill]

Depends on what. There's even fewer countries building sixth gen fighters alone.

I'm really weary of the idea that Sweden does everything right on defence. The Gripen E is clearly a decision to prioritize jobs over capability. And it only works because they are surrounded by countries that will operate the F-35. We should acknowledge that the Swedes are a bit selfish here.

Sweden doesn't do everything right on defence.
Everybody knows that the only country that does everything right is Australia.

I am setting aside the Gripen. To be honest I don't think anybody will be building many 6th generation aircraft of any kind. I think pilots are more likely to be payloads in UAVs going forwards.

As you alluded to, the Swedes do a bunch of other stuff as a result of their self-imposed neutrality. It has given them a bit more freedom of movement. And some stuff to sell.

They might not do everything well but they do more stuff than we do.

 

[OldSolduer]

Everyone does more stuff than us.

 

[Kirkhill]

How many CF-18s do we have that we could convert?

Boeing Completes Contract to Convert F-16 Fighters to QF-16 Target Drones - Militarnyi

Boeing has delivered the last QF-16 target drones made from decommissioned F-16 fighter jets to the United States Air Force.

militarnyi.com

AI Overview

Boeing built QF-16 drone conversions for the USAF under various contracts, with costs varying by phase, but you won't find a single price for exactly 13 units; early development was ~$70M (Phase 1), while later production deals covered dozens of units (e.g., 25 for ~$28.5M, 30 for ~$34M), suggesting each drone cost roughly $1-1.5 Million for conversion, though total program costs (R&D + units) were much higher.

Breakdown of QF-16 Costs

Engineering & Development (Phase 1): Around $70 million for initial design and development of the QF-16 drone system.
Early Production: A 2015 contract for 25 QF-16s was valued at approximately $28.5 million, averaging about $1.14 million per drone.
Later Production: A 2016 contract modification for 30 units was around $34 million, putting the cost per drone at roughly $1.13 million.
Total Program: A LinkedIn profile mentions a $105 million contract for the entire development and testing, indicating a significant overall investment.

 

[JLB50]

Canadians say selecting the best fighter jet for the job matters more than jobs: Nanos

As the Canadian government reviews its commitment to purchase American-made Lockheed Martin F-35 fighter jets, a new poll shows what Canadians think should be prioritized in procuring replacements to the aging CF-18s.

www.ctvnews.ca

Looks as if Canadians are beginning to see defence as a serious matter.