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AlexanderM said:
Define the requirement as an a/c in service, and the F35 falls off the eligible list.
The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
- Thread starter WingsofFury
- Start date
Define the requirement as an a/c in service, and the F35 falls off the eligible list.
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Not convinced it's that simple and doubt the Liberals are either. In fact I'm cheering for LM, as that's the only way we might see some F-35's. The Liberals are trying to squirm out of the deal and I'm hoping it doesn't work out for them.dapaterson said:
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The F-35 has been accepted in service and the first squadrons are already forming up and training in the US. Looks like the Libs can't use that little dodge.
Regardless, they have managed to put themselves in a poor position with their non policy: either pay penalties plus pay lots more for second tier fighters without the same capabilities or service life as an F-35, or find themselves at the end of the line when they are taking delivery of F-35's (and many of the lucrative contracts that should have gone to Canadian aerospace companies for F-35 support mysteriously may have vanished).
Regardless, they have managed to put themselves in a poor position with their non policy: either pay penalties plus pay lots more for second tier fighters without the same capabilities or service life as an F-35, or find themselves at the end of the line when they are taking delivery of F-35's (and many of the lucrative contracts that should have gone to Canadian aerospace companies for F-35 support mysteriously may have vanished).
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And the Marines fly the VTOL version.
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jmt18325 said:
http://www.defencetalk.com/us-air-force-says-f-35a-nearly-combat-ready-67741/?
End of the article states 338th Fighter Wing is slated for 3 operational Squadrons by the end of 2019. We'd barely have a SOR written and the USAF will be IOC. How many other capabilities have we put into combat-zones at IOC levels? A lot. IOC doesn't limit core functions, its a statement that those functions along with a capable number of airframes are at operational Squadrons. If we were waiting for FOC, we'd be waiting until 2030s when the USAF has replaced all its legacy aircraft with F-35As.
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Our only successful aircraft purchases have been those in service, in operation with other militaries: C-17; C130J; CH-147. On the other hand, if you want to buy an aircraft "still working out the kinks" may I suggest you look at the CH-148.
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dapaterson said:
We'd be 10 years ahead if someone didn't cancel the order for the CH-148s in the 1990s. That project was also Canada modifying a design for only a Canadian order, or Canadianizing it. Everytime we've done that, we get an inferior product that takes forever to deliver.
F-35 as a new aircraft hasn't stop the Danes, Israelis, Auzzies, Norweigens, Italians, Dutch, Brits and Turks who have all ordered aircraft already, and the countless other countries in the project but yet to confirm their firm orders. I guess Canada knows better, and all those countries are buying a lemon.
Oldgateboatdriver
Army.ca Veteran
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PuckChaser, I thought it was the CH-149 (Cormorant) that was cancelled in the 1990's.
Also, I would think that we were pretty successful with the acquisition of the Sea Kings, even though they were bought right off the original run of the airframe.
Also, I would think that we were pretty successful with the acquisition of the Sea Kings, even though they were bought right off the original run of the airframe.
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It was, we would have ended up with the EH101/AW101 (Merlin) instead of the Cyclone, giving us SAR and Maritime helicopters of the same type. Instead they had to restart the process, awarded to Sikorsky anyways (for CH-148), where we are the only military operator. To compare that program, to F-35's multinational R&D, is desperately grasping at straws.
Considering how long we've been using the Sea Kings, I'd agree completely.
The USAF is ready to declare IOC this fall, which means the aircraft is combat ready. You don't understand what IOC means. If its a capability, and in service, its combat ready. I could buy a fleet of 25,000 radios, and once tested, declare IOC when I only have 5,000 radios to outfit 1 CMBG. You don't just jump from implementation to FOC overnight, you phase in equipment that is ready to go over time, as industry cannot produce you 50,000 radios in one shot, nor would you hold onto all the shipments until you're ready to roll it out to everyone at once. That would be a bigger gongshow than the Liberals are making of the "open and transparent competition" promise they made for CF-188 replacement.
Considering how long we've been using the Sea Kings, I'd agree completely.
jmt18325 said:
The USAF is ready to declare IOC this fall, which means the aircraft is combat ready. You don't understand what IOC means. If its a capability, and in service, its combat ready. I could buy a fleet of 25,000 radios, and once tested, declare IOC when I only have 5,000 radios to outfit 1 CMBG. You don't just jump from implementation to FOC overnight, you phase in equipment that is ready to go over time, as industry cannot produce you 50,000 radios in one shot, nor would you hold onto all the shipments until you're ready to roll it out to everyone at once. That would be a bigger gongshow than the Liberals are making of the "open and transparent competition" promise they made for CF-188 replacement.
I'm all for getting the F-35. But only when it's ready:
And now an independent watchdog group is saying that the long list of unresolved problems means that the F-35 won’t be ready for combat until 2022. The watchdog group, the well-respected Project on Government Oversight, is basing its analysis on a recent Department of Defense report that found numerous serious problems with the fifth-generation fighter.
The watchdog analysis comes after one of the three F-35 variants has already been declared combat ready. The F-35B, designed for the Marines, was declared ready to go in July 2015. However, the jet has not been used by the Marines in combat, despite plentiful opportunities in Syria and Iraq. And the Project on Government Oversight maintains that the declaration was premature, and that official testing proves that the jet is not ready for active duty. Some analysts have speculated that the Pentagon is trying to buy hundreds of planes before testing has been completed.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/03/15/Why-F-35-May-Not-Be-Combat-Ready-Until-2022
And now an independent watchdog group is saying that the long list of unresolved problems means that the F-35 won’t be ready for combat until 2022. The watchdog group, the well-respected Project on Government Oversight, is basing its analysis on a recent Department of Defense report that found numerous serious problems with the fifth-generation fighter.
The watchdog analysis comes after one of the three F-35 variants has already been declared combat ready. The F-35B, designed for the Marines, was declared ready to go in July 2015. However, the jet has not been used by the Marines in combat, despite plentiful opportunities in Syria and Iraq. And the Project on Government Oversight maintains that the declaration was premature, and that official testing proves that the jet is not ready for active duty. Some analysts have speculated that the Pentagon is trying to buy hundreds of planes before testing has been completed.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/03/15/Why-F-35-May-Not-Be-Combat-Ready-Until-2022
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Official testing just had the aircraft run 88 of 88 sorties, achieve 8 to 0 kill/loss ratio, and have a hit rate of 94% (15/16) on simulated CAS missions. This testing was done after your "independant watchdog" published its report. The USAF is ready to declare IOC, and put it into combat. See a more recent article:
http://www.acc.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/5725/Article/808248/10-questions-on-the-f-35a-lightning-ii.aspx
http://www.acc.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/5725/Article/808248/10-questions-on-the-f-35a-lightning-ii.aspx
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Oldgateboatdriver said:
The CH-149 Cormorant (Canadian) designation is correct, for the AgustaWestland AW101 (Merlin).
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In fact Belgium only foreign buyer of CF-100 (75% paid for by the US and 25% paid by Canada):
http://belmilac.wikifoundry.com/page/Avro+Canada+CF-100+Canuck+Mk.5
http://casmuseum.techno-science.ca/en/collection-research/artifact-avro-cf100-100757.php
Cool pic:
Mark
Ottawa
http://belmilac.wikifoundry.com/page/Avro+Canada+CF-100+Canuck+Mk.5
http://casmuseum.techno-science.ca/en/collection-research/artifact-avro-cf100-100757.php
Cool pic:
Mark
Ottawa
