The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[dapaterson]

Not sure that will save them from legal action by LM or a NFTA claim worth billions.

Define the requirement as an a/c in service, and the F35 falls off the eligible list.

 

[AlexanderM]

Define the requirement as an a/c in service, and the F35 falls off the eligible list.

Not convinced it's that simple and doubt the Liberals are either. In fact I'm cheering for LM, as that's the only way we might see some F-35's. The Liberals are trying to squirm out of the deal and I'm hoping it doesn't work out for them.

 

[a_majoor]

The F-35 has been accepted in service and the first squadrons are already forming up and training in the US. Looks like the Libs can't use that little dodge.

Regardless, they have managed to put themselves in a poor position with their non policy: either pay penalties plus pay lots more for second tier fighters without the same capabilities or service life as an F-35, or find themselves at the end of the line when they are taking delivery of F-35's (and many of the lucrative contracts that should have gone to Canadian aerospace companies for F-35 support mysteriously may have vanished).

 

[DonaldMcL]

Define the requirement as an a/c in service, and the F35 falls off the eligible list.

The Marines declared it IOC last year.

 

[jmt18325]

The Marines declared it IOC last year.

IOC is not combat ready.

 

[dapaterson]

And the Marines fly the VTOL version.

 

[PuckChaser]

IOC is not combat ready.

http://www.defencetalk.com/us-air-force-says-f-35a-nearly-combat-ready-67741/?

US Air Force Says F-35A Nearly Combat Ready
By Air Force News Agency -
June 29, 2016

The first off-station deployment exercise for the F-35A Lightning II confirmed that the Air Force’s newest fighter jet is on track to reach initial operational capability later this year.

A declaration of IOC means the F-35A will be combat ready.

Seven F-35A aircraft and 181 personnel from Hill’s active duty 388th Fighter Wing and Reserve 419th Fighter Wing pushed the aircraft to its limits at Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho, during the training June 6-17.

The simulated deployment tested the F-35A against a stringent set of IOC requirements to include basic close air support, aerial interdiction and limited suppression and destruction of enemy aircraft.

“This was really the capstone event in our preparations to reach IOC and it was a resounding success,” said Col. David Lyons, 388th FW commander. “By any measure, the aircraft did well. We should be ready to declare IOC very soon.”

End of the article states 338th Fighter Wing is slated for 3 operational Squadrons by the end of 2019. We'd barely have a SOR written and the USAF will be IOC. How many other capabilities have we put into combat-zones at IOC levels? A lot. IOC doesn't limit core functions, its a statement that those functions along with a capable number of airframes are at operational Squadrons. If we were waiting for FOC, we'd be waiting until 2030s when the USAF has replaced all its legacy aircraft with F-35As.

 

[dapaterson]

Our only successful aircraft purchases have been those in service, in operation with other militaries: C-17; C130J; CH-147.  On the other hand, if you want to buy an aircraft "still working out the kinks" may I suggest you look at the CH-148.

 

[PuckChaser]

Our only successful aircraft purchases have been those in service, in operation with other militaries: C-17; C130J; CH-147.  On the other hand, if you want to buy an aircraft "still working out the kinks" may I suggest you look at the CH-148.

We'd be 10 years ahead if someone didn't cancel the order for the CH-148s in the 1990s. That project was also Canada modifying a design for only a Canadian order, or Canadianizing it. Everytime we've done that, we get an inferior product that takes forever to deliver.

F-35 as a new aircraft hasn't stop the Danes, Israelis, Auzzies, Norweigens, Italians, Dutch, Brits and Turks who have all ordered aircraft already, and the countless other countries in the project but yet to confirm their firm orders. I guess Canada knows better, and all those countries are buying a lemon.

 

[jmt18325]

According to an article I posted in the past few months, it could be 2022 before the F-35 is combat ready.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

PuckChaser, I thought it was the CH-149 (Cormorant) that was cancelled in the 1990's.

Also, I would think that we were pretty successful with the acquisition of the Sea Kings, even though they were bought right off the original run of the airframe.

 

[PuckChaser]

It was, we would have ended up with the EH101/AW101 (Merlin) instead of the Cyclone, giving us SAR and Maritime helicopters of the same type. Instead they had to restart the process, awarded to Sikorsky anyways (for CH-148), where we are the only military operator. To compare that program, to F-35's multinational R&D, is desperately grasping at straws.

Considering how long we've been using the Sea Kings, I'd agree completely.

According to an article I posted in the past few months, it could be 2022 before the F-35 is combat ready.

The USAF is ready to declare IOC this fall, which means the aircraft is combat ready. You don't understand what IOC means. If its a capability, and in service, its combat ready. I could buy a fleet of 25,000 radios, and once tested, declare IOC when I only have 5,000 radios to outfit 1 CMBG. You don't just jump from implementation to FOC overnight, you phase in equipment that is ready to go over time, as industry cannot produce you 50,000 radios in one shot, nor would you hold onto all the shipments until you're ready to roll it out to everyone at once. That would be a bigger gongshow than the Liberals are making of the "open and transparent competition" promise they made for CF-188 replacement.

 

[jmt18325]

I'm all for getting the F-35.  But only when it's ready:

And now an independent watchdog group is saying that the long list of unresolved problems means that the F-35 won’t be ready for combat until 2022. The watchdog group, the well-respected Project on Government Oversight, is basing its analysis on a recent Department of Defense report that found numerous serious problems with the fifth-generation fighter.

The watchdog analysis comes after one of the three F-35 variants has already been declared combat ready. The F-35B, designed for the Marines, was declared ready to go in July 2015. However, the jet has not been used by the Marines in combat, despite plentiful opportunities in Syria and Iraq. And the Project on Government Oversight maintains that the declaration was premature, and that official testing proves that the jet is not ready for active duty. Some analysts have speculated that the Pentagon is trying to buy hundreds of planes before testing has been completed.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/03/15/Why-F-35-May-Not-Be-Combat-Ready-Until-2022

 

[PuckChaser]

Official testing just had the aircraft run 88 of 88 sorties, achieve 8 to 0 kill/loss ratio, and have a hit rate of 94% (15/16) on simulated CAS missions. This testing was done after your "independant watchdog" published its report. The USAF is ready to declare IOC, and put it into combat. See a more recent article:

http://www.acc.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/5725/Article/808248/10-questions-on-the-f-35a-lightning-ii.aspx

Q8: Is this aircraft capable of deploying to Iraq or Syria to battle ISIS like the F-22 did?

A8: After IOC, it will be available to support the needs of the combatant commanders.

Q9: How soon the F-35 will be deployed to overseas locations?

A9: There are a number of events being considered for the F-35, to include training exercises and deployments. These events are being assessed and planned for through the needs of the combatant commanders.

 

[jmt18325]

And when that happens, great.  It hasn't happened yet.

 

[Loachman]

Our only successful aircraft purchases have been those in service, in operation with other militaries: C-17; C130J; CH-147.

Our "F"-model Chinook is not the same as the US Army F-model Chinook.

 

[George Wallace]

PuckChaser, I thought it was the CH-149 (Cormorant) that was cancelled in the 1990's.

The CH-149 Cormorant (Canadian) designation is correct, for the AgustaWestland AW101 (Merlin). 

 

[Kirkhill]

And when that happens, great.  It hasn't happened yet.

As the Vicar said to the actress.

 

[YZT580]

Our only successful aircraft purchases have been those in service, in operation with other militaries: C-17; C130J; CH-147.  On the other hand, if you want to buy an aircraft "still working out the kinks" may I suggest you look at the CH-148.

You forget: we designed, built and sold the CF100 and it was a great aircraft for its era, perhaps one of the better all-weather fighters to emerge from the 50's

 

[MarkOttawa]

In fact Belgium only foreign buyer of CF-100 (75% paid for by the US and 25% paid by Canada):
http://belmilac.wikifoundry.com/page/Avro+Canada+CF-100+Canuck+Mk.5
http://casmuseum.techno-science.ca/en/collection-research/artifact-avro-cf100-100757.php

Cool pic:

Mark
Ottawa