The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Colin Parkinson]

The industries on both sides of the border are more linked than they would like to think, MTU in Vancouver is the service provider for a good chunk of the engines being used on both sides , including the USAF.

 

[Rifleman62]

Since Canada's National Charity (CNC) is involved with the replacement issue:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bombardier-cseries-boeing-1.4343262

U.S. hits Bombardier with 79.82% preliminary duty on CSeries aircraft -CBC News - Oct 06, 2017 8:41 AM ET
Montreal-based airplane maker says it's confident penalties will be overturned

The U.S. Commerce Department hit Bombardier Friday with more duties on its CSeries commercial jet.

The department said it will impose a 79.82 per cent preliminary anti-dumping duty against the Montreal-based company's 100- to 150-seat civilian aircraft.

The U.S. government move follows last week's decision to slap preliminary countervailing tariffs of nearly 220 per cent on Bombardier, bringing the total duties imposed by the U.S. on the CSeries to almost 300 per cent.

Boeing, the petitioner in the case, has argued that the Canadian government unfairly subsidizes Bombardier in the construction of the CSeries commercial jets. Boeing launched its appeal to the U.S. government in April, several months after Bombardier announced the sale of up to 125 CSeries jets to Delta Airlines.

The duties being imposed by the U.S. won't be collected until Bombardier begins delivering the aircraft to Delta, which is expected in the spring.

"This determination confirms that, as Boeing alleged in its petition, Bombardier dumped its aircraft into the U.S. market at absurdly low prices," Boeing said Friday.

"These duties are the consequence of a conscious decision by Bombardier to violate trade law and dump their CSeries aircraft to secure a sale," Boeing said. "This dumping in our home market was not a situation Boeing could ignore, and we're now simply asking for laws already on the books to be enforced."

In announcing the latest duties, U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said the United States is committed "to free, fair and reciprocal trade with Canada, but this is not our idea of a properly functioning trading relationship."

"We will continue to verify the accuracy of this decision, while doing everything in our power to stand up for American companies and their workers."

The U.S. government says a final decision on the anti-dumping duties related to Bombardier is scheduled for Dec. 19, 2017.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Oh dear, maybe used RAAF Hornets after all:

Exploring options to supplement Canada’s CF-18 fleet
Statements

From Public Services and Procurement Canada

For immediate release

October 9, 2017, Ottawa – Public Services and Procurement Canada

Canada is building a more agile, better-equipped military, while ensuring the utmost care and prudence in the handling of public funds. Getting our women and men in uniform the equipment they need to do their jobs and protect Canadians, is a priority.

In November 2016, the Government of Canada announced a plan to replace the Royal Canadian Air Force fighter jet fleet. The Canada’s Defence Policy: Strong, Secure, Engaged, released in June 2017, reaffirmed the government’s commitment to invest appropriately in Canada’s military. Preparatory work for the competition is already underway. Until an open and transparent competition can be completed to replace Canada’s legacy CF-18 fleet, Canada is exploring options to supplement the current CF-18 fleet and address an existing fighter capability gap.

In late August 2017, Canada began discussions with the Australian Government to assess the potential purchase of F/A-18 fighter aircraft and associated parts they plan to sell. On September 29, 2017, Canada submitted an Expression of Interest, formally marking Canada’s interest in the Australian equipment. Canada expects to receive a response by the end of this year [emphasis added] that will provide details regarding the availability and cost of the aircraft and associated parts that Canada is considering.

Separate discussions with Boeing related to the interim purchase of Super Hornet aircraft remain suspended [emphasis added]. The Government of Canada continues to engage with the U.S. Government as it explores all options moving forward.

The Government of Canada will continue to provide updates and keep Canadians informed of its progress as it moves forward on replacing and supplementing Canada’s fighter aircraft.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/news/2017/10/exploring_optionstosupplementcanadascf-18fleet.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Good2Golf]

In the purity of the "resolve the capability gap for best value" effort, this is the best answer.  Canada and the Aussies have long collaborated on CF-188 & F/A-18 flight loading analysis and life-cycle management beyond the US Navy's original flight usage spectrum - going as far as to create a 'Frankenhornet' (spliced halves of Cdn and Aus 18s) to run through a strain rig to analyze and optimize the aircraft's capability and sustainability.

If you want to see how far they went, read this report on the Joint AUSCAN IFOSTP (International Follow-On Structural Test Program) results. (ref: http://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2002/PAPERS/6.PDF)

Regards

G2G

 

[Kirkhill]

Best? Or least worst?

Between the two fleets how many flying hours could they scrape together?

 

[Good2Golf]

Best? Or least worst?

Between the two fleets how many flying hours could they scrape together?

"Alex, I'll take 'Least Worst' options for $1000..."

...and...

It depends how much FLE (fatigue life expended) is left on the Aussie aircraft.  The closer an aircraft gets towards 1.0 FLE, the less time it has before it's 'pushing up daisies'.  Not sure where the Aussie 'Classic Hornets' are in that regard.

Cheers,
G2G

 

[FSTO]

Is this COA still a thing? I would hazard to guess that the Liberals have kicked the entire replacement plan to post 2019.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Public Relations= polishing a turd to make it look better  https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/news/2017/10/exploring_optionstosupplementcanadascf-18fleet.html

Exploring options to supplement Canada’s CF-18 fleet
Statements

From Public Services and Procurement Canada

For immediate release

October 9, 2017, Ottawa – Public Services and Procurement Canada

Canada is building a more agile, better-equipped military, while ensuring the utmost care and prudence in the handling of public funds. Getting our women and men in uniform the equipment they need to do their jobs and protect Canadians, is a priority.

In November 2016, the Government of Canada announced a plan to replace the Royal Canadian Air Force fighter jet fleet. The Canada’s Defence Policy: Strong, Secure, Engaged, released in June 2017, reaffirmed the government’s commitment to invest appropriately in Canada’s military. Preparatory work for the competition is already underway. Until an open and transparent competition can be completed to replace Canada’s legacy CF-18 fleet, Canada is exploring options to supplement the current CF-18 fleet and address an existing fighter capability gap.

In late August 2017, Canada began discussions with the Australian Government to assess the potential purchase of F/A-18 fighter aircraft and associated parts they plan to sell. On September 29, 2017, Canada submitted an Expression of Interest, formally marking Canada’s interest in the Australian equipment. Canada expects to receive a response by the end of this year that will provide details regarding the availability and cost of the aircraft and associated parts that Canada is considering.

Separate discussions with Boeing related to the interim purchase of Super Hornet aircraft remain suspended. The Government of Canada continues to engage with the U.S. Government as it explores all options moving forward.

The Government of Canada will continue to provide updates and keep Canadians informed of its progress as it moves forward on replacing and supplementing Canada’s fighter aircraft.

 

[FSTO]

Public Relations= polishing a turd to make it look better  https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/news/2017/10/exploring_optionstosupplementcanadascf-18fleet.html

Exploring options to supplement Canada’s CF-18 fleet
Statements

From Public Services and Procurement Canada

For immediate release

October 9, 2017, Ottawa – Public Services and Procurement Canada

Canada is building a more agile, better-equipped military, while ensuring the utmost care and prudence in the handling of public funds. Getting our women and men in uniform the equipment they need to do their jobs and protect Canadians, is a priority.

In November 2016, the Government of Canada announced a plan to replace the Royal Canadian Air Force fighter jet fleet. The Canada’s Defence Policy: Strong, Secure, Engaged, released in June 2017, reaffirmed the government’s commitment to invest appropriately in Canada’s military. Preparatory work for the competition is already underway. Until an open and transparent competition can be completed to replace Canada’s legacy CF-18 fleet, Canada is exploring options to supplement the current CF-18 fleet and address an existing fighter capability gap.

In late August 2017, Canada began discussions with the Australian Government to assess the potential purchase of F/A-18 fighter aircraft and associated parts they plan to sell. On September 29, 2017, Canada submitted an Expression of Interest, formally marking Canada’s interest in the Australian equipment. Canada expects to receive a response by the end of this year that will provide details regarding the availability and cost of the aircraft and associated parts that Canada is considering.

Separate discussions with Boeing related to the interim purchase of Super Hornet aircraft remain suspended. The Government of Canada continues to engage with the U.S. Government as it explores all options moving forward.

The Government of Canada will continue to provide updates and keep Canadians informed of its progress as it moves forward on replacing and supplementing Canada’s fighter aircraft.

Five paragraphs of nothing. A growing trait of this "Canada's Open Government is Back"

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Does this surprise anyone?  Canada and Canadians don’t care about the military beyond The Snowbirds and Remembrance Day parades.  Our government will care in the way of spending only as much as Joe and Jane Taxpayer does.

We need new fighters, new MPAs, and new FWSAR.  We are getting old fighters and the least capable cheapest FWSAR.  But free wifi on public transit (voters care about important shit like that).

 

[McG]

Moving forward with an RAAF used fighter purchase:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/australian-fa-18-fighter-jets-boeing-1.4349023

If we buy these, do we not still go back to Boeing for the supply of parts to keep them flying?  And, are there IP rights that would still see us pay Boeing for the development/implementation of the modification package that brings RAAF hornets to RCAF specifications?

 

[Quirky]

I really hope there are huge pilot shortages because of this non sense. Who in their right mind would want to join the RCAF and fly 40 year old buckets of crap. I wouldn't step foot in one and I've been on this thing for over a decade.

 

[Rifleman62]

Shouldn't this whole thread be moved to "The WTF News Files" thread?

 

[MilEME09]

Shouldn't this whole thread be moved to "The WTF News Files" thread?

Or an episode of Ripley's believe it or not?

 

[Altair]

Overall, this is great news.

One has to imagine the liberals would have made it so that whenever there is a open competition, the F35 wouldn't win, and they would go with a north american jet, thus SH by default.

Now, with them on the record as saying no F35 (although that could change) and in a trade dispute with Boeing, that leaves the Saab NG Gripen, the Eurofighter and Dassault Rafale.

I would be ok with any of those 3, amateurs preference in my case, being the Saab.

Saab also said it would build their fighters in canada, which would help...guess who, bombardier.

 

[AlexanderM]

In my mind the only way it won't be the F-35 is if we see a Super Hornet type quote in which the cost is highly elevated, but if we see the proper, clean quote that we should see as an F-35 partner, we will buy the aircraft. I'm thinking JT just wants to push this into the next mandate where he won't campaign on not buying the F-35. If we do see a Super Hornet type quote then I expect we will purchase the Rafale, assembled in Canada with full technology transfer. Or a smaller number of F-35's combined with the Rafale. I don't think people should get overly fixated on this interim thing.

 

[Altair]

In my mind the only way it won't be the F-35 is if we see a Super Hornet type quote in which the cost is highly elevated, but if we see the proper, clean quote that we should see as an F-35 partner, we will buy the aircraft. I'm thinking JT just wants to push this into the next mandate where he won't campaign on not buying the F-35. If we do see a Super Hornet type quote then I expect we will purchase the Rafale, assembled in Canada with full technology transfer. Or a smaller number of F-35's combined with the Rafale. I don't think people should get overly fixated on this interim thing.

I thought the Rafale didn't use the same armaments as the CF 18s?

Eurofighter and Gripen do.

 

[Rifleman62]

And equipping the Cdn Military with what fits the Liberal agenda, and not with the material needed to defend Canada, which is an obligation of a National Government, continues.

 

[MilEME09]

I thought the Rafale didn't use the same armaments as the CF 18s?

Eurofighter and Gripen do.

It doesn't (though it does use the paveway family) however a full tech transfer would allow us to convert

 

[Altair]

And equipping the Cdn Military with what fits the Liberal agenda, and not with the material needed to defend Canada, which is an obligation of a National Government, continues.

They got elected way it they wouldn't buy the f35.

They literally said it at rallies and stood across the country.

They said it during the debates.

Canadians said, "sure" and elected the liberals. So Canadians either said sure, or weren't put off enough by not buying the f35 to not vote for them.

Either way, it's political, Canadians elected them while that was one of their campaign promises.

Get over it. You might not like it but the will of the people and all that.