The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[GR66]

Our resources are kind of in the middle now. Both Cold Lake and Bagotville are sufficiently far from either coast that any sort of persistent effort would require a det. But this scenario is mostly discountable. The coasts are surveilled with MPAs, satellites and soon drones. The demand for fighters out there is limited (and hopefully going down). The real demand is several points in the Arctic. And on that front, whether it's centralized in Mirabel or split at the two wings doesn't make a huge difference.

Geographically for coverage I don't see that Mirabel/Edmonton would be substantially different than Bagotville/Cold Lake. Quality of life would presumably be better at Mirabel/Edmonton, but what would the major drawbacks (beyond the actual cost of the relocation) be beyond the flight time to the ranges?

 

[OldSolduer]

Geographically for coverage I don't see that Mirabel/Edmonton would be substantially different than Bagotville/Cold Lake. Quality of life would presumably be better at Mirabel/Edmonton, but what would the major drawbacks (beyond the actual cost of the relocation) be beyond the flight time to the ranges?

Actually building a air base in Edmonton comes to mind.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Slightly altering the conversation.
The current review of the F35's, some questions.

1) If the Liberals do not form the next government, does this review stop or will it run its natural course and the results be presented to the next Min of Def?
2) Can this review be completed prior to the end of the Federal election and its results be acted upon by the current Min of Def prior to the end of the Federal election

My guess the CPC will continue the review so it can be a negotiation card to play

 

[Underway]

I think that all of this will depend on if Canada and the US negotiate an end to the trade strife. Then the F35 project will go ahead to a point, and we'll still probably join the GCAP project with the UK or somesuch.

If the trade strife continues then there will be over politicization damage to the F35 and follow on with the HIMARS and then RCD program. Canada will be gutting its future defence at the exact time we should be doubling down on it.

 

[Maxman1]

The literal complaint from a lot of military members is professional opportunities for their spouses. Not a shortage of retail jobs. And let's be honest, Type A fighter jocks aren't very likely to end up with a retail clerk (assortative mating and all).

On this front, Montreal offers professionals, even Anglos, substantially more economic opportunity than Cold Lake. And even more than Edmonton. Montreal is only behind Toronto, for the number of multinationals and international organizations. And that means, there's jobs for anglophones. Those jobs are harder to get for those moving from other provinces. But less of a problem for a military spouse posted in Quebec.

How about designate both Mirabel and Billy Bishop as dual use and stand up a squadron in both Toronto and Montreal.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Is this a late April Fools suggestion? You want to put fighters at the most noise sensitive airport in Canada, on an island, with a 3900 ft runway. What sort of fighters did you have in mind- Sopwith camels? Spitfires?

How about designate both Mirabel and Billy Bishop as dual use and stand up a squadron in both Toronto and Montreal.

 

[Maxman1]

Is this a late April Fools suggestion? You want to put fighters at the most noise sensitive airport in Canada, on an island, with a 3900 ft runway. What sort of fighters did you have in mind- Sopwith camels? Spitfires?

How about Pearson then.

 

[dapaterson]

How about designate both Mirabel and Billy Bishop as dual use and stand up a squadron in both Toronto and Montreal.

Jets at Billy Bishop?

Oh my dear sweet child.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Jets at Billy Bishop?

Oh my dear sweet child.

Porter Airlines years ago was going to buy Bombardier C-series to fly out of Billy Bishop but they needed runway extension. City Council was being pressured by the lakefront condo dwellers to oppose. There was a small part of council that had other ideas such as getting rid of the airport. There is the odd private jet that shows up there. But council essentially ruled No Jets and told the feds so.

 

[Maxman1]

I thought the runway extension was still in progress.

 

[dapaterson]

I thought the runway extension was still in progress.

No.

The current agreement may not survive renewal.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I thought the runway extension was still in progress.

How about Gander?

Looks like fast jets can operate from there... and the local bar has this great drinking game that involves spinning a 'wheel of fortune' thing

RAF Typhoon Fighter Jets make a stop in Gander

ntv.ca

 

[KevinB]

Actually REbuilding an air base in Edmonton comes to mind.

FIFY

 

[OldSolduer]

FIFY

Thank you - the idiocy in the militaries world wide astounds me some days. Most days.

 

[Nvlgzr]

No.

The current agreement may not survive renewal.

what is being considered is runway safety areas (150m) being added to the main runway. These would be areas beyond the ends of he runway with energy absorbing materials to prevent an aircraft from going into the water.

 

[lenaitch]

what is being considered is runway safety areas (150m) being added to the main runway. These would be areas beyond the ends of he runway with energy absorbing materials to prevent an aircraft from going into the water.

The visuals are at the end of this document:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-249034.pdf

As far as I know, the tripartite agreement (Ports Toronto, City of Toronto and Transport Canada) has been renewed to 2045.

Beyond the fact that there is no room to add . . . just about anything, and it is in the heart of the most expensive real estate in the country, trying to shoe-horn very loud jets would be a non-starter.

 

[YZT580]

might just

The visuals are at the end of this document:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/ex/bgrd/backgroundfile-249034.pdf

As far as I know, the tripartite agreement (Ports Toronto, City of Toronto and Transport Canada) has been renewed to 2045.

Beyond the fact that there is no room to add . . . just about anything, and it is in the heart of the most expensive real estate in the country, trying to shoe-horn very loud jets would be a non-starter.

as well re-build ZD. And no that isn't a suggestion. If you want a base in Ontario there are lots of areas to chose from without involving YYZ. Doesn't the GOC have control of a ton of land in Pickering? Or base Borden?

 

[dapaterson]

Beyond the fact that there is no room to add . . . just about anything, and it is in the heart of the most expensive real estate in the country, trying to shoe-horn very loud jets would be a non-starter.

The jets are quieter than the prop planes currently operating there.

 

[Maxman1]

I assume Oshawa municipal airport doesn't have room to expand.

How about Gander?

Looks like fast jets can operate from there... and the local bar has this great drinking game that involves spinning a 'wheel of fortune' thing

RAF Typhoon Fighter Jets make a stop in Gander

ntv.ca

Maybe make the rotation to Greenwood a permanent squadron and move the det roto to Gander. And would a third P-8 squadron, stationed in Gander, be useful?

 

[Nvlgzr]

might just

as well re-build ZD. And no that isn't a suggestion. If you want a base in Ontario there are lots of areas to chose from without involving YYZ. Doesn't the GOC have control of a ton of land in Pickering? Or base Borden?

Anita Anand announced in January that Pickering is dead.
I can’t ever see Borden being redeveloped into an airport. It was a mistake to rip out the runways.

If you want a base near civilization in Ontario then my first suggestion would be Hamilton, there are a number of airlines flying there. 10000 ft runway. Surrounded by plenty of farmland.
Similarly my 2nd suggestion is London; existing jet traffic, lots of farmland & 8800 ft runway.