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The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

The Ukrainians are looking forward to the Gripens...


This is how Ukraine’s F-16s hide from Russian drones​

Ukraine’s F-16s operate from night from small airstrips while under constant threat of Russian attack. Despite this, they’re surviving.


It's not for no reason Kyiv wants the Swedish Gripen. To avoid Russian bombardment that could wipe out its roughly 125 surviving fighters, the Ukrainian air force splits its flying brigades into small teams that travel by truck to airstrips and even lengths of highway all across central and western Ukraine.


 
The Ukrainians are looking forward to the Gripens...


This is how Ukraine’s F-16s hide from Russian drones​

Ukraine’s F-16s operate from night from small airstrips while under constant threat of Russian attack. Despite this, they’re surviving.


It's not for no reason Kyiv wants the Swedish Gripen. To avoid Russian bombardment that could wipe out its roughly 125 surviving fighters, the Ukrainian air force splits its flying brigades into small teams that travel by truck to airstrips and even lengths of highway all across central and western Ukraine.




RCAF just did an exercise in Latvia back in September honing that very skill, using highways for takeoff and landing.

 
F35 requires an environmentally controlled hanger and specialty tooling/techniques to maintain the stealth surfaces. Someone previously commented on this blog that our hangers won’t be ready in time for our aircraft.
Not to worry. We'll just rent some space on various Air National Guard bases. They've been flying F-35s for some time.

:giggle:
 
After reading this, caution when speaking of Ikea-like Gripen assembly lines in Montreal. Unless, tangible, meaningful construction of related parts occur here, the juice may not be worth the squeeze. A number of major concerns would be needed to be overcome, a few look to be quite high to climb...
I warned about this before. They can't simply move the supply chain to Canada. So they get Bombardier to assemble it like IKEA furniture.

Having said this, I’d like to see SAAB math on their figure.

To be fair all companies fudge this. Take dollar amount and escalate by some multiplier.

It's almost like Ukraine is desperately throwing out LOI's and purchase attempts for whatever fighters they can without a lot of rhyme or reason? That's why I didn't put much stock in their Gripen LOI and said it was unrealistic, because fundamentally if they are doing this, we aren't special and I wouldn't be surprised if the LOI turns to dust.

Ukraine doesn't have funds. Donors will be buying. We may end up paying for dozens of Gripens that never wore Canadian colours.
 
So now Sweden is going to fill any gaps in the RCAF if we walk away/cut back the F-35 procurement? With what exactly? Sure as hell not with the Gripen E, given how Sweden just recently took delivery of their first aircraft, Brazil's orders have been delayed off their original schedule and there is other customers like Colombia and Thailand who are ahead of us on the order book hypothetically. Production of the E model is slow and backlogged, unless Saab is going to send us their own slowly delivering stock or try to pry additional airframes out of Brazil? Is the plan to shuffle off Sweden's existing Gripen C/D fleet off onto the RCAF to hold us over until we set up domestic production? Saddle us with old updated airframes to replace our ancient updated airframes?

The fact that Saab and Sweden is just blatantly pitching nonsense like this without the media calling them out is laughable. It's the classic Saab media blitz with a questionable plan hiding behind the glossy brochure. This unsolicited bid gets more and more questionable as time goes on, I hope nobody in positions of power is actually falling for this farce upon even a cursory glance.
The Media gave up the ghost of responsible journalism years and years ago. Most can’t even proof read their own articles.
 
The National Post is getting in the Gripen camp.

Kelly McParland: Swedish jet offer is about more than just planes​

Should Carney opt for the Swedish jet it would confirm Canada's determination to make its own choices.

New parents quickly develop a keen understanding of the gains to be had from anything that helps avoid waking the baby. Peace and quiet for one thing. A period of calm. A moment to think.
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In Canada’s case, the baby is the current U.S. president. The president, as we know from repeat experience, is easily upset. When the president gets upset, he gets cranky, makes a lot of noise and causes untold disturbances. If you can, you want to avoid getting him upset.

The obvious danger is that he’d set off yet another temper tantrum in the White House. Carney is only too aware of what happens when Donald Trump’s hair-trigger sensitivities get squeezed. Being forced to apologize for Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s anti-tariff ad campaign can’t have been fun. Carney did it because he felt he had to, yet there’s been little evidence Canadians got much in return. Trade negotiations are still in the deep freeze, and Trade Minister Dominic LeBlanc says no one is wasting time waiting for Trump to get over his snit. “We’re not going to wait around and look at our phones and turn up the notifications to make sure we don’t miss a ding because somebody sent us a text message at 9:30 at night,” he noted archly last week.

There’s little doubt that dumping the F-35 in favour of Gripens would go over poorly in Washington. The U.S. has plenty of ways to retaliate, from searing tariffs to border restrictions, investment barriers, cancelled treaties and whatever weird and wondrous sanctions administration figures can dream up. Prickly U.S. ambassador Pete Hoekstra has already suggested it could threaten the joint NORAD defence alliance.
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But at what point does Canada, along with the rest of the world, quit struggling to pacify a president who’s made it clear he can’t be pacified? Trump’s action in suspending trade talks over the Ontario ad campaign succinctly defined the problem: it’s no longer possible to guess how the U.S. will react to any given action at any given moment. Formal agreements may be ignored or cancelled on a whim. No one can be sure the U.S. will stick to a commitment once it’s been made. The president treats promises as ephemeral, and legalities as annoyances to be broken or evaded. The reliability of the world’s most powerful country depends on the mood of one very feckless, reckless and irresponsible individual.

But ditching a multi-billion-dollar mega-deal that’s backed by Canada’s military and has survived two previous governments would be a red flag before an easily-agitated bull.
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Should Carney opt for the Swedish jet it would signal his willingness to deal with whatever fallout ensued. And maybe it’s time he did. As LeBlanc underlined, you can’t run a country sitting by social media waiting to see what sort of tantrum erupts across the border. Every time Ottawa placates a capricious U.S. demand it takes another step towards identifying Canada as a branch plant economy, ever on edge over what demand will be tossed across the border next

If the prime minister is prepared to fairly equate the Swedish proposal and accept it in place of the F-35 plan he would do much to confirm Canada’s determination to defend and strengthen the independence Carney pledged to protect, despite the potential ramifications, economic and otherwise. If not, if he’s using the visit as a feint in hope of squeezing more benefits from Washington, he’s acting shabbily towards our Swedish ally, not to say undermining his proclaimed plan to bolster European trade as an alternative to Canada’s over-reliance on an unreliable America.

 
F35 requires an environmentally controlled hanger and specialty tooling/techniques to maintain the stealth surfaces. Someone previously commented on this blog that our hangers won’t be ready in time for our aircraft. The woes of ALIS are comparable to Phoenix. Can’t wait for ODIN. In many ways F35 is still in development to address original requirements not yet met. There have been concerns raised about the shortfall of parts and who gets priority.

Gripen E/F is not a paper aircraft, the Swedes have begun deliveries. E/F is an improved C/D whichhas been around for sometime. SAABs big selling point has been to be able to turn an aircraft around in minutes. SAABs primary customer is Sweden and Sweden being a previously non NATO country unlike Canada can’t afford to FAFO . They don’t have all the time in the world like Canada.

As I said I don’t believe either fully suits our needs. Now I’m going to admit my bias is towards the F15 Advanced Eagle and never understood why Boeing didn’t offer it. The reality is we are getting the F35. And not just 16. Some of those 16 will stay in the US permanently. I doubt the remainder will even meet 410’s needs.
The F-15 EX wasn't available at the time of the tender.

Quite frankly any stealth aircraft needs to be sheltered as best as one can, the F-117, the B-2, the F-22, and the B-21, the F-35 isn't an outlier in that fact. ANY modern aircraft is going to need climate controlled shelter - as some of the diagnostic support and maintenance equipment for them doesn't enjoy being outside.

I don't get the Gripen love fest so many have, it is a significantly inferior aircraft to many others on the market, and not even in the same league as the F-35
 
The F-15 EX wasn't available at the time of the tender.

Quite frankly any stealth aircraft needs to be sheltered as best as one can, the F-117, the B-2, the F-22, and the B-21, the F-35 isn't an outlier in that fact. ANY modern aircraft is going to need climate controlled shelter - as some of the diagnostic support and maintenance equipment for them doesn't enjoy being outside.

I don't get the Gripen love fest so many have, it is a significantly inferior aircraft to many others on the market, and not even in the same league as the F-35
But it's not subject the whims of a madman king whose courtiers refuse to make the slightest effort to contain him.

That's worth something.
 
But it's not subject the whims of a madman king whose courtiers refuse to make the slightest effort to contain him.

That's worth something.
You must be referring to President Xi Jinping. Nonetheless if Canada wants to have an edge in any major conflict it will need the F-35.

The Gripen is at best peer to modern Chinese and Russian aircraft and significantly disadvantaged against the J-20 due to stealth. I can't see this improving over the life of the Gripen so why start from behind?
 
But it's not subject the whims of a madman king whose courtiers refuse to make the slightest effort to contain him.

That's worth something.
Except the Gripen is subject to the whims of the US, considering it is using an American engine that can be veto’d by the US alongside countless bits of ITAR compliant equipment throughout the design.
 
The F-15 EX wasn't available at the time of the tender.

Quite frankly any stealth aircraft needs to be sheltered as best as one can, the F-117, the B-2, the F-22, and the B-21, the F-35 isn't an outlier in that fact. ANY modern aircraft is going to need climate controlled shelter - as some of the diagnostic support and maintenance equipment for them doesn't enjoy being outside.

I don't get the Gripen love fest so many have, it is a significantly inferior aircraft to many others on the market, and not even in the same league as the F-35
At the end of the day the current environment looks to be one of pairing with someone who will give us the shortest possible route to in-country production (however you define production - manufacturing/assembly or assembly) and a potential path forward towards future R&D and expansion. As well as much independence as possible.

With that in mind - besides the Swedes, who else would be able to offer that? The French, I don't think so. The Brits/Italians, no, they are just as desperate for saving/expanding their own jobs. The Japanese, nope. The South Koreans, quite possibly and that route may very well be explored further if we sign with Hanwha and if we really do a deal with SAAB for Gripens.

What would be an interesting analysis piece would be the amount to time, from start to finish, it takes to produce a F35 vs a Gripen E when both production facilities are optimally running. In a wartime setting, which pieces of the pie would have the greatest threat against them being able to be produced/delivered to the final assembly facility. Which manufacturers would be immediately cut-off if the war was against Russia or against China or against both occurred and if that manufacturer goes down, how soon does the entire assembly of an F35 or a Gripen E grind to a halt.

If a war or quasi-war occurs and the ability to replace F35's grinds to a halt because a certain piece or pieces can no longer be sourced but the ability to continue producing Gripen E occurs, which plane would you rather have? Wait for the highly lethal, stealthy one or pivot and use the older, less technical one? I think that what Ukraine has shown is that complex pieces get used up and thrown out quickly and less complex pieces have a greater chance of being repaired and replaced much quicker. An example of this is the Roshel Senator - its not a fully function AFV but it has some of those attributes and it can be produced much quicker, repaired much quicker and its cheaper and it allows the job to continue to be done, not in the best manner but the peanut is still be pushed up the hill.

I believe that we need 65-88 F35's at a minimum but we should be keeping our options open with SAAB and see where the chips may land.
 
Except the Gripen is subject to the whims of the US, considering it is using an American engine that can be veto’d by the US alongside countless bits of ITAR compliant equipment throughout the design.
Yes, true but there is another option for the engine. Yes it will cost money and take time, but that option exists.

And yes there are other bits of ITAR compliant pieces as well.

If we go with 65-88 F35 AND still pursue the Gripen E as an another fighter and the US gives us bullshit about ITAR related items, what would your thoughts be then? Would you still be ok with this or would you be up in arms about the untrustworthiness of our supposed closest Ally?

The US can't suck and blow on this. If we stick with 88 or reduce to 65+, what right does the US have to bitch against our sovereign decisions?

I almost want to see what would happen in this situation. We stick with 88 F35's and in addition we go with making Gripens E and pursue a joint programme with SAAB and the South Koreans on a 6th gen figther, along with UAV and such, and see if Trump comes out bitching about this. Dollars to Donuts he would.
 
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