The School Funding Thread- Merged

[Brad Sallows]

>No thanks. Stop kissing rich peoples asses. God there is really no one to vote for.

Kindly refrain from spouting bullshit.  The people with children in private schools are not all "rich".

I ran across an interesting excerpt from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (to which Canada is signatory) elsewhere in the blogosphere:

Article 26.
(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Governments should fork over the vouchers and let the parents decide where to send their kids.

 

[ex-Sup]

My point being - our public school does not have a "waiting list."  If you live in the designated school boundary, the school must take your child.  How come the Catholic school can put kids (that live in the area, but are non-Catholic) on a waiting list until spots open up?  This is the segregation that I refer to.

Because it's a Catholic school and Catholics get the first priority. Really it depends on where you are and what is the status of the school. I live in a town where enrollment is declining and there isn't generally an issue of non-Catholics getting in. It's actually welcomed. It's unfortunate that there is a waiting list, but they exist everywhere. In my board, many non-Catholic parents enroll their children right from the get go, which is easier than transfering mid-stream which could present a problem.

 

[a_majoor]

My point being - our public school does not have a "waiting list."  If you live in the designated school boundary, the school must take your child. 

Since I am now sending my daughter to a public school (Montessori essentially ran out after grade six) I have an interesting perspective. Yes, the school board *must* take my child, but they can send her wherever it is convenient to them. I can throw a rock at one public school from where I live, but she is bused past five OTHER public schools to reach the one our boundary was gerrymandered for.

The only reason I can see for this state of affairs is to maintain enrolment and receive per head funding in a school now in an empty neighbourhood (most of the people there moved when the school was built, now their children and grandchildren live elsewhere). Unlike the Montessori school, parental input is pretty much ignored except for constant requests to support school fundraising (to buy stuff I thought my tax dollars were supposed to be paying for).

The local bishop will be getting a visit from me and mine before my little boy has to move over from the private school system...........

 

[GAP]

Having served as a School Trustee, and in conversation with other trustees province wide, I can attest that - yes, it all about the oil money!!

Schools/divisions shuffle, entice as many students as possible prior to the end of September. On that date the funding is fixed for that division based on XXX students at XXX per student for that year. Then comes the other ancillary $$ as in special ed, etc..

Don't get me wrong, the trustee's have the best interests in mind for their divisions, but they can't do those things without as much funding as they can get.

 

[The Bread Guy]

If you really feel like rooting around a bit, here's some interesting links:

1)  Supreme Court decision, appeal of Ontario court decisions approving Catholic school funding, 25 Jun 07:  "...Bill 30 finds its validity in the exercise of provincial power under s. 93 (of the Constitutional Act 1967) and that the exercise of this power cannot be abolished or truncated by the Charter, is sufficient to dispose of this appeal."

2)  "Views of the Human Rights Committee under article 5, paragraph 4, of the Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights", UN Human Rights Committee, Communication Nº 694/1996 : Canada. 05/11/99, CCPR/C/67/D/694/1996. (Jurisprudence), 5 Nov 99:  "On the basis of the facts before it, the Committee considers that the differences in treatment between Roman Catholic religious schools, which are publicly funded as a distinct part of the public education system, and schools of the (other religions), which are private by necessity, cannot be considered reasonable and objective."

Continue to have at 'er - good discussion!

 

[Strike]

Because it's a Catholic school and Catholics get the first priority. Really it depends on where you are and what is the status of the school. I live in a town where enrollment is declining and there isn't generally an issue of non-Catholics getting in. It's actually welcomed. It's unfortunate that there is a waiting list, but they exist everywhere. In my board, many non-Catholic parents enroll their children right from the get go, which is easier than transfering mid-stream which could present a problem.

Just like French schools give priority of enrollment to those students who have french speaking parents.

 

[ixium]

You can give people of your own religion preference to joining?

Does that mean if theres a fountain you wouldn't mind black people from being pushed back in the line if a white person wanted a drink?

lf you can't see a problem with giving your specific religion preference over another, then theres a problem.

 

[exgunnertdo]

So the English public system becomes the only absolute public education system.

The Catholic system can turn people away because there is no room, the French system can turn people away who don't speak French, but the English public system has to take everyone.  If kids don't speak English, the system provides ESL programs.  If I want my child to learn French, there is no FSL system in the French school.  I need to rely on French Immersion (which is not universal - my 7 year old missed the FI boat since we were in Borden when he was in Grade 1; no FI or even Basic French there until grade 4.  French programming is offered at the discretion of the board and if I happen to be posted to an area of Canada that doesn't offer it, then I (my children, actually) am out of luck.

My point again is that the English public system is not permitted to be picky in any way shape or form.  There is no such thing as "no room" - the school makes room for them.  They can't turn students away that don't speak English - they must offer ESL programming.  The French system and the Catholic system can turn people away - that, in my opinion, is wrong!  A public system should be for anyone.  The French system should take anyone who is willing to learn French and then offer them FSL, and the Catholic system should take anyone who is willing to be educated according to the Catholic belief system.  Anything less and it is moving towards a private, closed system.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You can give people of your own religion preference to joining?

Does that mean if theres a fountain you wouldn't mind black people from being pushed back in the line if a white person wanted a drink?

lf you can't see a problem with giving your specific religion preference over another, then theres a problem.

I don't really think you can equate the two, draw parallels ..........maybe, but still apples and oranges. At any rate a very crude and stupid remark. JMO though.

 

[ixium]

So replace black/white with any thing you want.

Canadian/American
French/Quebec French
Mormon/Scientology
Fat/Thin

Either way, pushing back one person because they are different in any shape or form is discrimination.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Either way, pushing back one person because they are different in any shape or form is discrimination.

Site an example where this has happened?  If there is an easily accessable Public or other type of School why would the non Catholic be trying to push to go into a  Catholic School?

You are losing me here.  I see what you are getting at, however how does that follow within the theme of the thread.  You are suggest there was an act, or a potential for discrimination.

The only type I see is your fear, and lack of knowledge of the Catholic religion, is causing you to hinder My childrens' religious education and freedom.

dileas

tess

 

[ixium]

lt's a publically funded school, paid by taxes. Anyone should be able to go into it.

They put non-catholics into a queue system, but let practicing catholics in without a problem avoiding the queue system all together.

lf a public school tried that, they'd have all types of rights activists after them.

No matter what religion someone is, they should be able to get into a school that is paid by the public without being seperated(by the queue system).

 

[McG]

There is a new vote option: Yes, but end the special Constitutional status of the Catholic Boards

 

[Yrys]

As a Quebecer, I shudder at the idea of changing the constitution. It always seems an herculean task...
I don't see it happening with a minority government...

 

[McG]

As a Quebecer, I shudder at the idea of changing the constitution. It always seems an herculean task...

I seem to recall a few provinces which have had that very amendment made for themselves (Quebec being one of them).

 

[the 48th regulator]

lt's a publically funded school, paid by taxes. Anyone should be able to go into it.

They put non-catholics into a queue system, but let practicing catholics in without a problem avoiding the queue system all together.

lf a public school tried that, they'd have all types of rights activists after them.

No matter what religion someone is, they should be able to get into a school that is paid by the public without being seperated(by the queue system).

And what about my tax dollars?  You are dictating to me why I can not fund a Catholic school system, and you find that fair?  Do you not beleive we Catholics pay taxes?

dileas

tess

 

[vonGarvin]

I seem to recall a few provinces which have had that very amendment made for themselves (Quebec being one of them).

I thought that Quebec still hadn't signed on to the constitution?  (Thank you very much P.E. Trudeau!)

 

[McG]

That is what made them pushing for & signing amendment so ironic.

http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/lpepin/index.asp?PgId=815

 

[McG]

and this one:

Québec, Newfoundland, and Manitoba, have now eliminated constitutionally protected denominational schools.

http://www.oneschoolsystem.org/denominational_rights.html

not to mention the many provinces which never had constitutionally protected denominational schools.

And what about my tax dollars?  You are dictating to me why I can not fund a Catholic school system, and you find that fair?

Why do you find it fair that your tax dollars will give your children guaranteed access to any either school board, while non-Catholics are treated as second class by one of the boards?

 

[ixium]

And what about my tax dollars?  You are dictating to me why I can not fund a Catholic school system, and you find that fair?  Do you not beleive we Catholics pay taxes?

dileas

tess

l've never said you can't fund the Catholic school board. l said if they wanted to be publically funded, they need to stop granting certain people special treatment.

Montrassori/Hindu/other religion schools aren't public, and the parents have to pay to have their kids enrolled. Those parents still pay taxes.

Are you suggesting that you, as a Catholic, deserve better treatment than them?