"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[armyvern]

Perhaps if some Bases had not decided to issue 8 pairs of AR socks to folks in Aug-Sep timeframe, there might not be a shortage.  Kitting in Pet - 6 pairs, pre-depl trg in Kingston - 2 more because Sup Tech said so.

Army Vern what is the Scale and do we really need 8 at a time?

Cripes here goes if you can figure it out (highjacking from an earlier post):

Op Athena/Op Archer top-up kit:

8 X AR T-shirts (3 only for 2nd or more deployment)
8 X Tan Socks   (3 pair only for 2nd or more deployment) 
3 X Barrack Boxes (Max-if you have 2 you get 1/if you have 1 you get 2)
2 X Hand towels (even if issued previously)
2 X Bath towels   (even if issued previously)
3 X CTS Black Sock Liners   (even if basic 5 each is already issued)
3 X CTS Green Socks  (even if basic 5 each is already issued)
3 X CTS Boxers   (even if basic 5 each is already issued)
3 X Olive Drab T-shirts (even if 5 each basic is already issued)
and, if it is your first deployment you will also be issued:
2 X Desert Boots (after issued once in your career they are exchangeable/it is not 2 pair per tour)

I think I got it all. There are other items that will be issued in-theatre via Camp Mirage. Anything else is part of the Basic Field Scale which you should already have if serving at a Land Force location...BEW etc.

Each tour has it's own scale. For example Op Safari personnel are entitled to 4 X Barrack Boxes etc. Your entitlements depend upon your tour length and Op. TAV entitlements to a Theatre are not the same as a full-tour entitlements at the same theatre/Op.

Entitlement to 8 pairs of tan socks is over and above the 8 pairs of CTS black socks you should end up with. The blue font above represents kit you should get for your first deployment into this TF. You would be issued the qty in brackets for each subsequent tour into theatre. Underwear works the same as the CTS socks ... you are entitled to 3 more pairs on top of your normal 5 each entitlement IAW the deployed sub-scale for TFA.

These items are also exchangeable. Whether you go through your 8 pairs or not, depends entirely upon what your task in-theatre involves. While those driving desks in KAF may wear our only 4 pairs of tan socks during their tour ... those out in the FOBs and hauling their asses on foot would obviously go through more of these items. 8 pairs are expected to get them through their stay in the FOB, and they are fully entitled to exchange all 8 pair for 8 new pairs when they get back to KAF during downtime from the FOBs. THAT all being said, supply in KAF WILL ship items out to FOBs (including socks/gotch/t's) if the requirement to get this kit out to an individual is made known to them.

PhilB ... you should have more than 3 pairs of underwear. Being that each member of the Army is entitled to 5 pair immediately upon reporting for basic trg. You are then entitled to 3 ADDITIONAL pairs for the tour. You should have 8 pair available to you out there in the FOB. If YOU have not been issued 8 pair (or 8 tan t-shirts as per the scale), I suggest that you make your way to KAF Clothing and have yourself issued your entitled qty ... and exchange the ones that you've already worn out.

Be thankful that you didn't serve a mere 10 years ago, when entitlement was to a mere 2 each pairs of "passion killer OD boxers" which weren't even exchangeable -- so handwashing was the norm and was expected. Handwashing one's kit is acceptable. It's not fun, but your stuff can be cleaned; after all, flying washers and driers into a war zone takes space and bumps off kit which is a necessity to get into the area. I'm sure the gents manning European trenchs way back when would agree. Not being required to handwash is a comfort, but not a necessity.

 

[armyvern]

heres the issue I have. I got issued 3 Brown t Shirts and 3 pairs of black liner socks. The majority of the smaller FOB's dont have laundry. So we are supposed to get by with basically 3 changes of under clothes for about a month in desert conditions  : ridiculous. Obviously, being the kit slut that I am, I have already bought tshirts and socks to make up the deficiency, but really, its at the point where we need to buy our own shirts and socks? Come on!

Being the kit slut that you are --- I'm surprised to hear that you didn't take your entitled qty into theatre with you. You've been entitled to 5 pairs of socks, 5 pairs of briefs since CTS introduced them. Your t-shirt entitlement went up to 5 each 2 1/2 years ago. You were then entitled to an additional 3 each of all of these items when you were slotted into the CFTPO posn for TFA.

You should have 8 each of them all. And they are ALL exchangeable. Yep, it's ridiculous that you wasted your money buying something before you even bothered to go get the full qtys that you were entitled to seeing as how it's part of the DAG process. If clothing didn't have it then, why didn't you get it in KAF or Mirage, or didn't you go ask for it?? -- they DO have it.

 

[Franko]

Just a point on washing laundry, wash tubs and wash boards are in the FOBs so it's up to you to do it. KAF gets laundry services.

Not too sure if there is a laundry turn in for the FOBs. If there is it's a low priority I'm sure.

Back to the issue of boots. The old US Desert boot is now out and only the desert WW pattern (looks exactly the same as the CWW boot) is available.

Seeing as I still have 2 pairs of the old desert boot and after 2 tours, they are both still serviceable I'll be wearing those.

Mind you someone got all pissy because of the amount of differing patterns of boots the troops have been issued over the years and wants everyone to look the same, so I'll be ready to turn mine in for a set that hurt my feet (CWW pattern).

Regards

 

[armyvern]

Mind you someone got all pissy because of the amount of differing patterns of boots the troops have been issued over the years and wants everyone to look the same, so I'll be ready to turn mine in for a set that hurt my feet (CWW pattern).
Regards

Well, you could always fall back on the old "it's issued kit & therefore authorized to wear" -- and make arrangements with a nice & caring Suppy to quote you the by the books "you are not entitled to exchange it if it is still serviceable."     >

We'd only be enforcing policy after all.

 

[westernarmymember]

Due to the current shortage in desert boots being experienced, it will not be possible for everyone to look the same. I am aware of no directive concerning what desert boots are worn in the BG. The rest of the task force is in much the same situation I'm sure.

 

[Franko]

Well, you could always fall back on the old "it's issued kit & therefore authorized to wear" -- and make arrangements with a nice & caring Suppy to quote you the by the books "you are not entitled to exchange it if it is still serviceable."    >

We'd only be enforcing policy after all.

True enough, but apparently that's not good enough. 5 different soldiers seen wearing 5 different pairs of issued boots displeased him.

Now  everyone will be wearing black Cadillacs in Bliss. That's the directive thus far.

Regards

 

[armyvern]

Due to the current shortage in desert boots being experienced, it will not be possible for everyone to look the same. I am aware of no directive concerning what desert boots are worn in the BG. The rest of the task force is in much the same situation I'm sure.

Well, you'd certainly be the one to know.  

Your post sits well with me.

 

[armyvern]

True enough, but apparently that's not good enough. 5 different soldiers seen wearing 5 different pairs of issued boots displeased him.

Now  everyone will be wearing black Cadillacs in Bliss. That's the directive thus far.

Regards

Ahhh Bliss. I can't see that carrying over into theatre though. Especially when he becomes informed of the fact that there is a desert boot shortage ... I'm surprised actually, that no one has yet informed him of this. Bad bad bad communication happening there.

 

[westernarmymember]

RBD, PM inbound

 

[Franko]

Ahhh Bliss. I can't see that carrying over into theatre though. Especially when he becomes informed of the fact that there is a desert boot shortage ... I'm surprised actually, that no one has yet informed him of this. Bad bad bad communication happening there.

Nor can I, however, everyone knows that there is a shortage at most levels of command these days and he's pretty high up. That being said I'm sure that this will not be an issue in theater and will defiantly not be an issue in my call sign in theater.

Garrison life, unfortunately, gets in the way of training and this is one prime example.

Regards

 

[PhilB]

Being the kit slut that you are --- I'm surprised to hear that you didn't take your entitled qty into theatre with you. You've been entitled to 5 pairs of socks, 5 pairs of briefs since CTS introduced them. Your t-shirt entitlement went up to 5 each 2 1/2 years ago. You were then entitled to an additional 3 each of all of these items when you were slotted into the CFTPO posn for TFA.

You should have 8 each of them all. And they are ALL exchangeable. Yep, it's ridiculous that you wasted your money buying something before you even bothered to go get the full qtys that you were entitled to seeing as how it's part of the DAG process. If clothing didn't have it then, why didn't you get it in KAF or Mirage, or didn't you go ask for it?? -- they DO have it.

I understand what you are saying but... First off in Edmonton at least they do not have any more brown tshirts, and no desert socks to issue. We got 3 brown tshirts, and no desert socks. The CTS boxer is not practical in the desert in my experience, it doesnt matter though as I went commando most of my last tour. Socks and t shirts are an entirly different matter. Socks are arguably one of the most pieces of kit, particularily to the infantry, I am not going to deploy with basically no socks and then hope that CM or KAF supply will have some to issue me. I had issues exchanging used up desert socks on 1-06, so I shudder to think what it is like now. So like lots of other things, although we may be entitled to it, we are still not getting it.

 

[armyvern]

I understand what you are saying but... First off in Edmonton at least they do not have any more brown tshirts, and no desert socks to issue. We got 3 brown tshirts, and no desert socks. The CTS boxer is not practical in the desert in my experience, it doesnt matter though as I went commando most of my last tour. Socks and t shirts are an entirly different matter. Socks are arguably one of the most pieces of kit, particularily to the infantry, I am not going to deploy with basically no socks and then hope that CM or KAF supply will have some to issue me. I had issues exchanging used up desert socks on 1-06, so I shudder to think what it is like now. So like lots of other things, although we may be entitled to it, we are still not getting it.

Oh ... I GET it!!

So, being that you were in theatre on TF1-06 -- you already have 8 pairs of desert socks and your undies from THAT deployment. Plus you are NOW entitled to a top-up of 3 MORE pairs to go with those original 8 for this deployment. You are only entitled to 3 of each after your FIRST deployment --- as YOU already got 8 the first time you deployed.

What did YOU do?? Throw them out instead of exchanging them? That doesn't seem like a problem on the supply OR shortages end.

I am married to an infanteer -- you do not need to tell me how much they need their kit. Understand that. I KNOW what you do.

I also know that you, being this is your second deployment, should have more socks than the infanteer working beside you who is on his first deployment. You got 8 before ... and you're getting 3 MORE now. That's 11 pairs not 3!!! If you chucked yours out instead of exchanging them etc -- that's not MY problem or the systems ... rather I'd suggest to you that it is fully & squarely YOURS. He's only going to have 8 ... yet YOU are bitching. That's what I know.

And, I already told you -- KAF HAS them, so does CM ... what part of THAT are you not getting?

Read the posts below regarding entitlements. Don't sit here and try to make it like the system has only EVER given you 3 t-shirts or socks to deploy with -- that's bullshit and you know it.

YOU are only entitled to the 3 each tshirt/undie/sock top up because it's a subsequent deployment into theatre for YOU. What did YOU do with the 8 of everything and the 5 tan shirts you got for 1-06?

Because, getting 3 tshirts and 3 pairs of socks from Edmonton means that YOU got exactly what the fuck you were entitled to for a second tour. If you threw your shit out after your first tour ... your bad. Not the systems bad.

 

[PhilB]

First off I am at a loss to understand why your posts have turned antagonistic and somewhat rude? Was I condescending, or rude to you in any of my posts? I do not think so.

Secondly, where in my posts did I say that I threw out my t shirts or socks from 1-06? Obviously I did not. I still have them, I was simply commenting that we were only issued 3 tshirts, and by we, I mean everyone, including those who have not deployed for, and no desert socks. I understand what my entitlement is, I understand the we are supposed to get them in theater, hopefully.

Finally, have I offended you in any of my posts here? Are you equating a dislike for the "system" as an attack on you? If I have then please, let me know and I will apologize. If not, in keeping with the guidelines of army.ca in reference to being civil, I think that you should reassess the tone of your posts as the are coming across as quite rude.

 

[westernarmymember]

PhilB, advise via PM what unit you are deploying with (BG, OMLT, etc) and I will find out why those deploying on their first tour did not receive the full entitlement.

 

[westernarmymember]

Ladies and Gentlemen, it is true that there have been issues with receiving certain kit for TF 108 deployment. It is also true that the reasons for these issues have been fully explained throughout the Ch of Comd, in all elements of the TF and that the majority of issued have been resolved in one way or another. If you have not received the information or you are not clear on certain points, feel me to contact me and I will provide the facts or get the facts for you where I am not up to date (unlikely). I will not discuss anything verging on OPSec but anything else is fair game. I cannot speak to the issues surrounding TF 308 but I can speak confidently concerning TF 108. Feel free to PM.

 

[MikeL]

I was simply commenting that we were only issued 3 tshirts, and by we, I mean everyone, including those who have not deployed for, and no desert socks.

I guess it depends on when you went into M101. Myself and others(well us who are on our 1st deployment) in my platoon picked up 6 brown t-shirts. And yea no one was issued desert socks, just the 3 black liners and 3 green socks. Also going off ArmyVern's list; none of us got hand towels or bath towels, no boxers or any extra green t-shirts.

 

[KevinB]

The desert socks suck - the only thing they are good for are cutting one as a goggle mask.

  Buy GOOD socks from MEC etc.  geez.

 

[OldSolduer]

Question for Canadian Soldiers:

When deployed to Afghanistan, what extra kit are you issued? I've been itching to go since 3VP went over in 02, and now I have a chance in TF 3-09 if it comes off, all dependent on Parliament of course.

 

[MikeL]

Question for Canadian Soldiers:

When deployed to Afghanistan, what extra kit are you issued? I've been itching to go since 3VP went over in 02, and now I have a chance in TF 3-09 if it comes off, all dependent on Parliament of course.

You get pretty much the same stuff you get in TW CADPAT just in Arid CADPAT, desert boots, and the new ruck(depends on the unit you go over with), etc Some guys got a new tac vest too trial aswell.

Arid CADPAT uniforms, brown t-shirts, Arid CADPAT plate carrier, TW CADPAT Camelbak, Arid CADPAT Camelbak cover.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

What do you mean by extra kit?