"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[Teeps74]

With politicians, sometimes "common sense" can be found over a mess diner, and a few drinks. Regimental senates are really really useful in this regard.

EDIT TO ADD: It should go without saying, I do not mean bribing, as that is a good way to get a Regiment severely punished in the press at best, God only knows what Ottawa would do should such a thing happen. What I meant to say is talk it over with a nice meal. One can explain such things, and politicians are often invited and even expected to go to many military functions and mess dinners per year. END EDIT

And AV, I do feel for you, sincerely. I have done the CQ's job, and will again. I'm not saying I know what it is like, but I have spent enough time through these expereinces, in supply shops to know that there are some real "winners" coming up to the counter to flex their muscle and demand action. It should not be that way, but some people feel as though they are entitled to their entitlements (to bad they have no idea what those are).

 

[RHFC_piper]

some people feel as though they are entitled to their entitlements (to bad they have no idea what those are).

Quite honestly, this is probably 90% of the problem. 

Most of the troops in my unit have absolutely no idea what they're entitled to... or for that matter, not entitled to.  Me being one of them.  I have a pretty good idea, but I have never seen a solid list of what I should have until I'm somewhere where I'm expected to have it... like deployment.  Granted, that was a quick fix, as it's a short walk from 1 RCR lines to base clothing stores.  But, it took 8 years before I had a shmeck of what I was missing, and I still don't have a solid list.

Needless to say, I've asked my unit RQMS for a list, but they can only give me a list of what I have on my docs... beyond that, I have a very basic idea of what I need to do my job.

Perhaps if it was made very clear, from the initial issue, what you are entitled to, even if you aren't issued it due to deficiencies in the system, then maybe there wouldn't be such an influx of people demanding what they aren't entitled to.  (I'M NOT BLAMING THE SUP TECHs or CQs).

I'm all about the idea of a "glass wall" stores system... No "favours", no "deals", no "hoarding"; just the issue and replacement of supplies when needed or requested by proper documented channels.  A member completes the proper requests and is given a prompt answer. If the stores are available, the stores are issued. If the member isn't entitled to the stores, they should already be aware and not request it.  Supply should be a 2 way street with co-operation from both end... and I have seen it quite the opposite in my unit; Requests go in late, and CQ/RQ can't accommodate... and in the past, requests go in and are ignored until the last minute until it is too late.    Some times I hope this is just a "my unit" thing, or a "PRes" thing... but I've seen it all over. 

I can't blame anyone directly cause some people just honestly don't know.  I don't bark at my CQ/RQ staff for kit unless I know I'm entitled to it and need it. Because of this, I'm sure I don't have absolutely everything on my trade scale of issue, but I obviously don't need it or I'd wonder why I don't have it.

Just my $0.02

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

When I worked in CQ stores we did the very best to accommodate the troops.  I always figured it was easier to count stuff on the shelves when there was very little on them.

 

[armyvern]

When I worked in CQ stores we did the very best to accommodate the troops.  I always figured it was easier to count stuff on the shelves when there was very little on them.

As 99.99% of us do. Most QMs, RQs, CQs, TQs, SQs etc will go out of their way trying to do and get whatever they can for the troops.

The fallacy with the argument that stuff is easier to count while it's (individual kit items) on the shelves has always confused me ... for if you've issued that kit to someone via the CFSS ... it's no longer on your charge to account for. You aren't respoinsible for it anymore and do not have to report it's whereabouts.

For Temp Loan items ... I can count one on the shelf ... or count qty "1" on a temp loan card. The loan cards (meaning the kit is signed out) are easier to count, just flip the page ... they're all right there in one spot ... and I can sit on my ass drinking my XL Black while doing it!!  >

It's the .01% of assholes that ruin it for everyone ... and every trade has them.

 

[Teeps74]

Lone Wolf, I'm with ya! Far easier to count TI cards and such then stuff on shelves.

Piper, next time you are at your ASU, ask at the counter if you can see the message for P Res infantry entitlements (as a matter of fact, I will do the same when I get a chance). There is a message that basically details what we are supposed to have generally, and what we are supposed to be brought up to for deployments.

This said, the supply system seems to be a little stressed for some items, but, do not worry, one definately will get what they need before deployment. The sup Techs I dealt with for my last hop over the pond were very good at finding me stuff either here at my base, or another to make sure I had the proper sizes for kit I needed.

Hmm, would it be proper or break any rules to post the list here? I do not believe the entitlement message is classified in any way...

 

[armyvern]

Most of the troops in my unit have absolutely no idea what they're entitled to... or for that matter, not entitled to.  Me being one of them.  I have a pretty good idea, but I have never seen a solid list of what I should have until I'm somewhere where I'm expected to have it... like deployment.  Granted, that was a quick fix, as it's a short walk from 1 RCR lines to base clothing stores.  But, it took 8 years before I had a shmeck of what I was missing, and I still don't have a solid list.

Needless to say, I've asked my unit RQMS for a list, but they can only give me a list of what I have on my docs (they CAN give you the scale - I just did!!) beyond that, I have a very basic idea of what I need to do my job.

CFS D01-301 Land Force Operational Field and Equipment Scale - Reg & ResF.

Anyone should be able to obtain this from their CQ/RQ/QM upon asking for it. That is the listing of your entitlements.

I'm sending you a copy via email in approx 20 seconds - actually you should have it now.   Have fun with it. Ensure that when you read an item, you scroll to the right hand side of the document to see if any "scale notes" are applicable; if so, scale notes are found at the very beginning (scale notes are the caveats) of the document.

For example you'd see listed Ballistic Eyewear, and the applicable note would read:

CTS item, for CC2 positions only
and personnel from NON-CC2 unit
listed at note 2 para (i). For
NON-CC2 personnel deployed in
support of Land operations, refer
to note 2 para (h).

 

[armyvern]

Lone Wolf, I'm with ya! Far easier to count TI cards and such then stuff on shelves.

Piper, next time you are at your ASU, ask at the counter if you can see the message for P Res infantry entitlements (as a matter of fact, I will do the same when I get a chance). There is a message that basically details what we are supposed to have generally, and what we are supposed to be brought up to for deployments.

This said, the supply system seems to be a little stressed for some items, but, do not worry, one definately will get what they need before deployment. The sup Techs I dealt with for my last hop over the pond were very good at finding me stuff either here at my base, or another to make sure I had the proper sizes for kit I needed.

Hmm, would it be proper or break any rules to post the list here? I do not believe the entitlement message is classified in any way...

And, you should now have a copy as well.

Vern

 

[armyvern]

Hmm, would it be proper or break any rules to post the list here? I do not believe the entitlement message is classified in any way...

I've already got it listed somewhere on this darn site ... not the message, just the list of items.

 

[Teeps74]

I've already got it listed somewhere on this darn site ... not the message, just the list of items.

Thanks a ton AV   ;D

And this here, is the reason why I love this place...

P.S. Vern, I just read the many, many, many, many hats you have listed under your name. Good grief. I will not complain about all the work and jobs piled up on my desk for at least another week now.

EDIT TO FIX SPELLING

 

[armyvern]

P.S. Vern, I just read the many, many, many, many hats you have listed under your name. Good grief. I will not complain about all the work and jobs piled up on my desk for at least another week now.

No worries, trust me - I broached the "pay raise" issue with the OC today when she noted that I had more points for passing on at the O Gp than she and the CO did.  > (Somehow - I doubt it will fly!! But, she did say she owes me some beer!!)

This is one girl ... who will be very very glad when APS/Summer Leave is over ... and in desperate need of beer!

 

[the 48th regulator]

This is one girl ... who will be very very glad when APS/Summer Leave is over ... and in desperate need of beer!

You Rang?

   

   

dileas

tess

 

[RHFC_piper]

CFS D01-301 Land Force Operational Field and Equipment Scale - Reg & ResF.

Awesome.. Thank you  ;D

This document should be handed out to every soldier when they join... then when they ask for something they're not entitled to, the CQ/RQ/QM staff can just tap a sign on their desk that says; "You're not entitled. Ref: CFS D01-301, etc."...  They don't even have to put down their coffee. 
The member requesting should then just turn about and walk away.

Anyone should be able to obtain this from their CQ/RQ/QM upon asking for it. That is the listing of your entitlements.

As much as this should be the case, as Teeps put it;

most P Res units (in Ontario at least) do not have supply techs as the RQs, and more often then not they are actually just someone (prefereably a senior NCO) who needs a full time job, and is willing to do it regardless of trade.

Sometimes the info just isn't available...  And trying to find anything on the DIN is a friggin nightmare.


Either way... thanks.  I've only been looking for this list for 10 years...  keep in mind, I only knew it existed for the last 6 years and only really cared about it in the last 3 years (since predeployment).  Which is why I say it should be handed out to all troops upon enrollment... then there are no excuses.  ;D

 

[2 Cdo]

As much as this should be the case, as Teeps put it;
Sometimes the info just isn't available...   And trying to find anything on the DIN is a friggin nightmare.

So I'm not the only one who finds the DIN search engine a f*cking joke. I wish I knew who did the programming for the DIN so I could beat him/her within an inch of their life, let them recover and then finish the job. :threat:

I've lost track of how often I have tried a search for a particular item only to have it come back with 0 returns or a link to something totally unrelated.

Sorry about that folks, back to your originally scheduled thread.

 

[Old and Tired]

2CDO

The guy your looking for is Sylvain something or other.  I have is name at home, and I'm on task in Gagetown.  Suffice to say that everyone involved in Army on Line was royally p****d when at the end of the whole process, SQFT stepped up and said " This is what we are going to do anyway, so we're finished"  I'll take the name down for you.  He's a Civi employee at G6 SQFT.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

should make a deal with goggle

 

[RHFC_piper]

should make a deal with goggle

Heh... oddly enough, I've found things via a google search, at work, on my DWAN computer, faster than I could ever find them on the DIN search engine...

Including items which, in the document itself, state; "Although this document is not classified, it should not be distributed outside of the DIN"... 

I've lost track of how often I have tried a search for a particular item only to have it come back with 0 returns or a link to something totally unrelated.

Exactly...  I typed in "CF 728" (document transfer form) and got 0 useful returns.... then I typed that into google and found a fillable PDF version... WEAK!!

The DIN search engine makes me want to punch babies.    :evil:


We should have google sort this out for us...


And if this seems like it shouldn't be in this thread; it's issued (somewhat) and it's useless.... I think it fits.  ;D

 

[Bzzliteyr]

On the bright side, you can probably never find the webpage that points to any of the official orders regarding non issue kit!!

If I have never physically seen the order, can I plead innocent?

 

[geo]

FWIW, I always give Google a try - even while on the DIN.  Works 99.9% of the time
Many of my coworkers have folowed suit... life is a lot better without the DIN's "stock" search engine

 

[NL_engineer]

On the bright side, you can probably never find the webpage that points to any of the official orders regarding non issue kit!!

If I have never physically seen the order, can I plead innocent?

Try that, and tell us what happened.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Yeah... right.