The US Presidency 2019

[Brad Sallows]

>I wanna say the antifa psychopaths helped more than the Russians.

Good luck measuring that.  The influence of either probably doesn't kick in until the third or fourth decimal place.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Fave excerpt from this one ...

... The hope is that voters will embrace Biden as a kind of American Churchill.

The past 24 hours raise, not for the first time, a more painful possibility: Grampa Simpson is running for president ...

 

[mariomike]

The past 24 hours raise, not for the first time, a more painful possibility: Grampa Simpson is running for president ...

Opinions on which septuagenarian is the more "stable genius" may depend on which team one supports.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Opinions on which septuagenarian is the more "stable genius" may depend on which team one supports.

Well, neither are in a great position to realistically play the "he's too old" card …  ;D

 

[FJAG]

He blinked!

Trump confirms he called off retaliatory Iran attack ‘10 minutes before the strike’

President Trump confirmed early Friday that he called off a retaliatory attack on Iran in response to the downing of a U.S. drone “10 minutes before the strike,” saying the number of expected casualties was not "proportionate" to what Tehran did.

In a stunning tweet thread, the president said the U.S. was "cocked & loaded to retaliate" with plans to hit three sites, but he reversed course after asking military leaders about how many would be killed. ...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-called-off-retaliatory-strike-against-iran-in-last-minute-wsj

How Donald Trump created one hell of a mess with Iran

The shooting down of a US military drone by Iran on Thursday emphasizes that the conflict between the United States and Iran is deepening.

It's a crisis that President Donald Trump predictably provoked by pulling out of the Iranian nuclear deal just over a year ago -- with no real Plan B beyond imposing ever-tougher sanctions on the Iranian regime.
But the story gets more complicated, because in the last few weeks, Trump has sent mixed messages regarding his true intentions. ...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/opinions/us-iran-mess-trump-endgame-bergen/index.html

:facepalm:

 

[tomahawk6]

I doubt he blinked, rather he didn't want to kill upwards of 150 people at this time. The sanctions are hurting and more sanctions might be a better option unless reflagged tankers or a USN vessel is hit. PRC involvement in Iran is a factor for caution as trade negotiations are being worked out. Hitting a location where there might be Russian or PRC military personnel would pose a much bigger problem than just Iran.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Blinked, or made a point?

I doubt Trump's own thought process led to the decision.  I see the result of a deliberation involving several people, with the more peaceable faction carrying the day - probably the lawyer in the room, or the diplomats.  So now everyone knows the US isn't necessarily going to be provoked into military escalation by a trivial provocation, and that if a response happens it is unlikely to be equally trivial.

People who in recent weeks cautioned the administration against military escalation should be happy.  Nevertheless, I suppose now some will switch to baiting Trump ("weak Trump! indecisive Trump!") as having lost face, in order to continue serving their partisan political goals.  If that goads Trump into overreaction, then they can exploit that too, even if it means people die who otherwise might not.

 

[Remius]

Strategic decisions are not always political decisions.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

He blinked!

:rofl:

He made a sound, humane decision. I know it drives the TDS crowd crazy, but there it is.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

:rofl:

He made a sound, humane decision. I know it drives the TDS crowd crazy, but there it is.

Yup,....and didn't make a lot of future terrorists.  Sometimes just having Daddy unbuckle his belt sends a good message.

 

[FJAG]

You're glossing over the key point. He originally made a decision to strike (undoubtedly knowing that there would be casualties). The strike package was launched.

Then, he changed his mind and called them back. That's blinking and that's a clear sign of indecision.

I'm not a hawk here and I know that there are clearly pro and con issues as well as differing factions both within the White House and Congress. The issue here isn't whether a strike was warranted or not nor whether this was a decision made on humanitarian grounds. What it is is nothing more nor less a clear signal that Trump is indecisive and incapable of making a reasoned, sound decision. He shifts with the wind and whoever gets to him last.

This is a bad, bad signal to send to the world and particularly to America's enemies. His credibility can't sink much lower.

:cheers:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You're glossing over the key point. He originally made a decision to strike (undoubtedly knowing that there would be casualties). The strike package was launched.

Then, he changed his mind and called them back. That's blinking and that's a clear sign of indecision.

I'm not a hawk here and I know that there are clearly pro and con issues as well as differing factions both within the White House and Congress. The issue here isn't whether a strike was warranted or not nor whether this was a decision made on humanitarian grounds. What it is is nothing more nor less a clear signal that Trump is indecisive and incapable of making a reasoned, sound decision. He shifts with the wind and whoever gets to him last.

This is a bad, bad signal to send to the world and particularly to America's enemies. His credibility can't sink much lower.

:cheers:

That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. You are also allowed to read whatever you want into it. Bottom line, it's just your opinion. One not shared by everyone. Not everyone is ready to damn him for everything he does.

The guy decides not to escalate and kill people, but still gets pillored. You would likely be in that group that would vilify him if he did launch and are now trying to pigeon hole him when he didn't give you a reason to be outraged.

That's just my opinion though. One that carries the same weight as yours.

Cheers,
:cheers:

 

[FJAG]

That's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. You are also allowed to read whatever you want into it. Bottom line, it's just your opinion. One not shared by everyone. Not everyone is ready to damn him for everything he does.

The guy decides not to escalate and kill people, but still gets pillored. You would likely be in that group that would vilify him if he did launch and are now trying to pigeon hole him when he didn't give you a reason to be outraged.

That's just my opinion though. One that carries the same weight as yours.

Cheers,
:cheers:

Just for the record, I would not have been in the crowd that might have pilloried him for completing the strike nor would I have been outraged with that. For that matter I'm not outraged that he didn't complete the strike.

What I am is "concerned" about (and what I am damning him for) is the weakened state of America's stature and credibility and how emboldened America's enemies will be by the fact that he flip flopped in the middle of the mission. Trump supporters should be concerned about this too.

:cheers:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

"Flip flop??"  I guess you could say Vasily Arkhipov "flip flopped".....

 

[brihard]

"Flip flop??"  I guess you could say Vasily Arkhipov "flip flopped".....

No, Arkhipov never said ‘launch’ and then reversed his decision. He was in the unusual position of being a third person with authority to authorize launch when there are generally only two, and he alone of the three did not believe that nuclear war must have started, and therefore he withheld his authorization to launch. It’s a fortunate coincidence of history that he happened to be on that submarine, but not a particularly astute reference in this context.

 

[mariomike]

Well, neither are in a great position to realistically play the "he's too old" card …  ;D

President Eisenhower had this to say about that, “The greater likelihood that a man of 70 will break down under a load than a man of 50.”

Eisenhower: A need for “younger men in positions of the highest responsibility so as to symbolize the youth, vigor and virility of the Republican Party.”

Eisenhower: "All the programs in the world, and all the Eisenhower prestige, cannot elect some revolting old Republican hack against a youthful, able, and personable Democrat.”

Franklin D. Roosevelt was fifty when he won his first term; John F. Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama were in their forties.

He said, “We all know that when advancing years and diminishing energy begin to take their toll, the last one that ever appreciates such a situation is the victim himself.”

Eisenhower was willing to consider the nation’s welfare ahead of personal ambition. He was 62, but had the prestige and qualifications of successful 5-star general.

Edit to add,

Just read something about Biden telling voters about driving girls on dates in his '51 Plymouth. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

>What I am is "concerned" about (and what I am damning him for) is the weakened state of America's stature and credibility and how emboldened America's enemies will be by the fact that he flip flopped in the middle of the mission. Trump supporters should be concerned about this too.

So we observe a decision-making and execution process that allows changes pretty much up to the last minute.  This is sub-optimal compared to ... what, exactly?  Over the top at 06:00 boys, even if the artillery is late?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ever since FJAG made that observation I've been thinking of it non-stop. Is a leader who changes their mind last minute indecisive or are they showing flexibility?

 

[Remius]

Ever since FJAG made that observation I've been thinking of it non-stop. Is a leader who changes their mind last minute indecisive or are they showing flexibility?

Depends on your politically stripe.

Remember Obama’s Red Line moment...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/chris-wallace-compares-trump-to-obama-is-iran-his-red-line-moment

 

[Jarnhamar]

I was thinking more about us as leaders in the CAF. If we change out mind last minute sorta thing. Really has me thinking.