The value of an education

[mariomike]

I would suggest that, until about age 30, all kids should do odd jobs, join the circus, join the military, learn a trade, travel the world, do manual labour, work on farms, go to school, write poetry..... do whatever they want.

That's fine.

So long as they dont mind going to retirement parties for younger co-workers.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think in a lot of jobs, the requirement for post-secondary education will go out the window for those jobs that used the requirement to winnow down the field. It probably won’t change much for jobs where the knowledge from those diplomas or degrees is necessary for success. But I think there are a lot of jobs out there that require a generic degree, that probably don’t actually need it.

The field is already sparse. There is not much need for winnowing.
There is a shortage of local kids.

 

[mariomike]

Take a candidate off the street, vet them, train them, mould them in your image.

They are pretty "moldable" in that, typically, going directly from.high school to a college "farm team", they have very little "life experience".

Before getting a regular partner, they undergo a preceptorship with a Field Training Officer.

After a ten million dollar boo-boo a few years ago, preceptorship length has greatly increased.

Probation time can be increased, if the FTO has concerns.

 

[RangerRay]

The field is already sparse. There is not much need for winnowing.
There is a shortage of local kids.

Which is why I think we’ll start seeing it in some fields with education requirements that aren’t necessary for the job. I’m starting to see it in my field where they will now administer a knowledge test for candidates who do not meet the post-secondary education requirements.

 

[brihard]

Smart move. This should happen more in other places as well, such as police services - hire at 18-20 and train.

Hell no. The last thing we need is a bunch of kids 18-20 who are just barely emerging into adulthood and still very much in the process of mentally and emotionally settling down and maturing, and who have little to no independent adult life experience to bring to bear when they show up to a call. We need more independent functioners and thinkers.

 

[Kirkhill]

Actually all this discussion kind of plays into the 400,000 reservists discussion.

A chance at an income, a fall back position, perhaps a trade.... if jobs are becoming harder to come by then signing up for a stipend in return for service to the Crown becomes more attractive. And you get to play with neat toys.

At the same time the post-secondary schools, reliant on peer-reviewed texts and tenured professors, can't keep up with the rate of change on the factory floors and in the mines - and they have a stultifying effect on many of their students, draining them of their innovative tendencies as they enforce cathechisms on them. I think that is what Palantir is addressing. Which may bring us back to the beginning and companies training company men/women to meet their requirements and then working to retain them with jobs for life.

I know there are a lot of discontinuities in the above ---- incomplete thoughts developing.

 

[mariomike]

This should happen more in other places as well, such as police services - hire at 18-20 and

Saw this for Canada's largest city.​

Opinions may vary.

Apply to Join as a Police Constable​

Do I meet the minimum requirements?

• Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada
• 18+ years of age

 

[lenaitch]

Somewhere in the mid-1970s, Ontario amended the Police Services Act to allow hiring at age 18. The OPP did some targetted hiring of that new demographic and, while it wasn't a disaster, it wasn't an outstanding success either. There was no longer a cadet program at that time. At least at 21 most candidates had a few years of work experience and many were living on their own. I recall a study back then that showed the best candidates were in their mid-20s with a few years in the workforce (this was before post secondary was common). It might be different for a candidates home municipal service but taking a bunch of kids right out of high school and plunking them down in a new community with little to no supports has many risks.

Numerous studies show that the adult brain isn't fully baked until the mid-20s.

 

[brihard]

Saw this for Canada's largest city.​

Opinions may vary.

Apply to Join as a Police Constable​

Do I meet the minimum requirements?

• Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada
• 18+ years of age

While an education isn’t strictly requires, anyone getting hired with only high school generally has some really impressive experience beyond that. The kids who are still getting in are generally accepted to their surprise ideas through university or at the end of community college. But those are desperation hires that police services should not be making. Anyone who looks like a good hire at 19 will look like a great hire at 23 with some years of adult life experience.

 

[Kirkhill]

Somewhere in the mid-1970s, Ontario amended the Police Services Act to allow hiring at age 18. The OPP did some targetted hiring of that new demographic and, while it wasn't a disaster, it wasn't an outstanding success either. There was no longer a cadet program at that time. At least at 21 most candidates had a few years of work experience and many were living on their own. I recall a study back then that showed the best candidates were in their mid-20s with a few years in the workforce (this was before post secondary was common). It might be different for a candidates home municipal service but taking a bunch of kids right out of high school and plunking them down in a new community with little to no supports has many risks.

Numerous studies show that the adult brain isn't fully baked until the mid-20s.

While an education isn’t strictly requires, anyone getting hired with only high school generally has some really impressive experience beyond that. The kids who are still getting in are generally accepted to their surprise ideas through university or at the end of community college. But those are desperation hires that police services should not be making. Anyone who looks like a good hire at 19 will look like a great hire at 23 with some years of adult life experience.

Regiment them and form them into security companies.

 

[mariomike]

This should happen more in other places as well, such as police services - hire at 18-20 and train.

In reply to QVs post, saw this regarding age.

Changing times, and changing opinions.


Age

In the early to mid 1980s all the way to now, the RCMP started to hire older individuals. Members starting their careers in their 30s are now commonplace; those in their 40s are numerous while those doing so in their 50s are rare exceptions.

Prior to the early 1980s, the RCMP was aiming to recruit new members aged from 19 to about 25. The practice was relatively customary of those days, and also grounded on three precise beliefs from the RCMP. First, policing could not be the second career of an individual. Second, young men were more moldable than older individuals to the police subculture. Third, criminal activity was linked to adulthood. By hiring young adults, the RCMP secured more chances that those individuals would have a crime free background.

RCMP recruiting

Due to an aging force, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) is actively recruiting to continue meeting Canada s policing needs. Society changes every decade, and so do the RCMP recruiting qualifications. Right now, about 15 to 20 times more…

en-academic.com

 

[brihard]

Regiment them and form them into security companies.

Hiring into the military is not the same as hiring them into policing. What you are talking about isn’t at all the same as what I’m talking about.

 

[YZT580]

While an education isn’t strictly requires, anyone getting hired with only high school generally has some really impressive experience beyond that. The kids who are still getting in are generally accepted to their surprise ideas through university or at the end of community college. But those are desperation hires that police services should not be making. Anyone who looks like a good hire at 19 will look like a great hire at 23 with some years of adult life experience.

perhaps they should consider adding Grade 13 to the school system to enable another year of maturing before the kids hit the streets. As I see it, an individual is either mature at 20 or he probably never will be. Take a walk through Ypres and read the ages: 18, 17, often old is 22. Old enough to kill, but not for voting as the song says. But in order to change things around society and parents have to make some hard choices; starting with the education curriculum in h.s. Follow that with taking the phones away unless the holder earns the money to both pay for the phone and then for the phone plan. If they are 16, cancel their allowance. If they want to drive or go anywhere on public transit they pay for it. Send the temporary workers home and free up those jobs for the students. Change the laws (at least here in Ontario) so a 17 year old can work in a variety store even if it handles wine and beer. I am sure you can think of other steps as well; those are just to start. A college degree used to indicate a level of maturity now all it does is foment rebellion.

 

[brihard]

perhaps they should consider adding Grade 13 to the school system to enable another year of maturing before the kids hit the streets. As I see it, an individual is either mature at 20 or he probably never will be. Take a walk through Ypres and read the ages: 18, 17, often old is 22. Old enough to kill, but not for voting as the song says. But in order to change things around society and parents have to make some hard choices; starting with the education curriculum in h.s. Follow that with taking the phones away unless the holder earns the money to both pay for the phone and then for the phone plan. If they are 16, cancel their allowance. If they want to drive or go anywhere on public transit they pay for it. Send the temporary workers home and free up those jobs for the students. Change the laws (at least here in Ontario) so a 17 year old can work in a variety store even if it handles wine and beer. I am sure you can think of other steps as well; those are just to start. A college degree used to indicate a level of maturity now all it does is foment rebellion.

Yeah, I’m only talking about the prior comment of hiring kids into policing. Needless to say it is not the same as filling the ranks of infantry in a world war.

 

[Kirkhill]

Hiring into the military is not the same as hiring them into policing. What you are talking about isn’t at all the same as what I’m talking about.

It never is.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I have said this before and I will say it again.

Young kids today have a reasonable chance of living to be 100 years old.

I would suggest that, until about age 30, all kids should do odd jobs, join the circus, join the military, learn a trade, travel the world, do manual labour, work on farms, go to school, write poetry..... do whatever they want.

Many, maybe. For the top end of mathematicians and physicists, many do their most important work before 30, which suggests for academically-oriented people there's no time to waste. Also it suggests that it's in our best interests to not simply allow strong performers to self-launch out of high school, but to catapult them.

 

[mariomike]

As I see it, an individual is either mature at 20 or he probably never will be.

An article readers may find of interest about young men transitioning into adulthood these days,

It’s Not Just a Feeling: Data Shows Boys and Young Men Are Falling Behind​

Boys’ educational achievement, mental health and transitions to adulthood indicate that many are not thriving.

It’s Not Just a Feeling: Data Shows Boys and Young Men Are Falling Behind

Boys’ educational achievement, mental health and transitions to adulthood indicate that many are not thriving.

www.nytimes.com

When I joined the Department of Emergency Services, one of the "old guys" ( probably in their late 40s back then ) said to me, "When I was your age, I was in the Big One. Yer WW2."

They are almost all gone now, but that generation were powerful role models.

Not sure who the "influencers" are of young men today.

 

[YZT580]

An article readers may find of interest about young men transitioning into adulthood these days,

It’s Not Just a Feeling: Data Shows Boys and Young Men Are Falling Behind​

Boys’ educational achievement, mental health and transitions to adulthood indicate that many are not thriving.

It’s Not Just a Feeling: Data Shows Boys and Young Men Are Falling Behind

Boys’ educational achievement, mental health and transitions to adulthood indicate that many are not thriving.

www.nytimes.com

When I joined the Department of Emergency Services, one of the "old guys" ( probably in their late 40s back then ) said to me, "When I was your age, I was in the Big One. Yer WW2."

They are almost all gone now, but that generation were powerful role models.

Not sure who the "influencers" are of young men today.

classrooms and curriculum are orientated to girls. Being male is frowned upon. Every group you can think of takes priority over your WASP male. Boys at home here there dads complain about reverse discrimination, they see the doctors, store clerks, store owners, truck drivers and so on are all of a different nationality/colour and they give up. Add split families and step-fathers, step-mothers 4 sets of grandparents, traditional beliefs ridiculed and is it any wonder?

 

[lenaitch]

an individual is either mature at 20 or he probably never will be.

I disagree. Looking back, I was a 'late bloomer'. I think the issue of 'maturity', how it is measured and context, has far too many variables to assign a hard cut-off. I think we all know people who had their shit together at 18 and those who still didn't at 45.

 

[QV]

Hell no. The last thing we need is a bunch of kids 18-20 who are just barely emerging into adulthood and still very much in the process of mentally and emotionally settling down and maturing, and who have little to no independent adult life experience to bring to bear when they show up to a call. We need more independent functioners and thinkers.

Young adults bring positives the older recruits do not. Resilience, less baggage, moldable, longevity, mobility. I have faith in young adults vs what I've seen in many mature applicants more opportunity. I'm not saying exclude "mature" applicants, but I am saying weight more to the younger ones.