The War in Ukraine

[Czech_pivo]

Reported on various sites.​

North Korea sent Russia millions of munitions in exchange for food: Seoul​

South Korea says North Korea has sent Russia 6,700 containers carrying more than three million artillery shells since September.

Gotta wonder how many of them misfired?

 

[Maxman1]

What happened in the old thread?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

What happened in the old thread?

Ask Bruce…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ask Bruce…

If you can find him

 

[Cloud Cover]

If you can find him

Eff me, I’m copying another one…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Eff me, I’m copying another one…

The flipchart one at the end is superb...

 

[Kirkhill]

Playing with numbers with considering @ArmyRick 's napkin

Number of shells fired by Ukraine per month	250,000​
Number of days per month	30​
Number of shells per day	8333​
Approximate Weight of 155mm shell in kg	50​
Weight of shells fired per day in kg	416667​
Weight of shells fired per day in tonnes	417​
CH-147 Sling Load in tonnes	12​
CH-147 Sling Loads of shells per day	35​
CC-177 Load in tonnes	77​
CC-177 Loads of shells per day	5.4​
CC-330 Load in tonnes	70​
CC-330 Loads of shells per day	6.0​
Canada's annual steel production in tonnes	13,000,000​
Canada's steel production in tonnes per day	35,616
Ukraine steel demand for shells in tonnes per day	417​
Ukraine demand as percent of Canadian supply	1.2%​

Someone check my arithmetic.

8000 shells a day sounds a lot until it becomes 6 flights of Huskies or GlobeMasters or 36 flights of Chinooks.

And the steel supply is only 1.6% of Canada's output.

Any old steel or car plants sitting idle?

 

[YZT580]

Playing with numbers with considering @ArmyRick 's napkin

Number of shells fired by Ukraine per month	250,000​
Number of days per month	30​
Number of shells per day	8333​
Approximate Weight of 155mm shell in kg	50​
Weight of shells fired per day in kg	416667​
Weight of shells fired per day in tonnes	417​
CH-147 Sling Load in tonnes	12​
CH-147 Sling Loads of shells per day	35​
CC-177 Load in tonnes	77​
CC-177 Loads of shells per day	5.4​
CC-330 Load in tonnes	70​
CC-330 Loads of shells per day	6.0​
Canada's annual steel production in tonnes	13,000,000​
Canada's steel production in tonnes per day	35,616
Ukraine steel demand for shells in tonnes per day	417​
Ukraine demand as percent of Canadian supply	1.2%​

View attachment 83471

Someone check my arithmetic.

8000 shells a day sounds a lot until it becomes 6 flights of Huskies or GlobeMasters or 36 flights of Chinooks.

And the steel supply is only 1.6% of Canada's output.

Any old steel or car plants sitting idle?

Stelco in HM was closed down several years ago I think but they stripped the furnaces out of it. But the buildings are there and very convenient to both HM airport and the harbour, heck it even has its own pier and a rail line to the head

 

[Cloud Cover]

Not many steel plants in Canada anymore. Algoma is still kicking, I think.

 

[GR66]

Not many steel plants in Canada anymore. Algoma is still kicking, I think.

Well, to be fair who needs steel???

 

[KevinB]

Someone check my arithmetic.

8000 shells a day sounds a lot until it becomes 6 flights of Huskies or GlobeMasters or 36 flights of Chinooks.

I think you mean 6 flights from C-17 or MRTT AND 36 sorties from Hooks.
As you wound need to get them to Poland via fixed wing transport and then Hook shuttle them to Eastern/Mid Ukraine ideally.


That 8k ideally would be 16k as well, 8k is kind of a treading water number in my understanding.

You would burn out the RCAF inside a month or two.

And the steel supply is only 1.6% of Canada's output.

Any old steel or car plants sitting idle?

Steel isn’t the only issue for artillery ammunition.

 

[lenaitch]

Not many steel plants in Canada anymore. Algoma is still kicking, I think.

Thirteen according to Natural Resources Canada.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think you mean 6 flights from C-17 or MRTT AND 36 sorties from Hooks.

Thank you for correcting my grammar.

As you wound need to get them to Poland via fixed wing transport and then Hook shuttle them to Eastern/Mid Ukraine ideally.

Yep.

That 8k ideally would be 16k as well, 8k is kind of a treading water number in my understanding.

Agreed. But it is necessary to start somewhere to establish a sense of perspective.

You would burn out the RCAF inside a month or two.

If all else failed then the RCAF could charter Air Canada freighters to Eastern Poland. Of course perhaps Canada could get a little help from the Yanks and the Europeans to shunt 36 Hook loads of shells into Ukraine on a daily basis. Or a short train.

We hide behind numbers - Hundreds of thousands a month? We can't do that! But break that down in to pallets per hour and the sense changes.

Steel isn’t the only issue for artillery ammunition.

Yep.

 

[Skysix]

KevinB said:
Steel isn’t the only issue for artillery ammunition.

There apparently also is an issue with finding or creating enough IMX-104 to fill them with also.

 

[AmmoTech90]

KevinB said:
Steel isn’t the only issue for artillery ammunition.

There apparently also is an issue with finding or creating enough IMX-104 to fill them with also.

Then don't.
Use Comp B.
Use TNT.

Perfect is the death of good.

 

[GR66]

Nothing says we have to do it all ourselves either. If we have the capability to make the shell casings and someone else has the capability of doing the explosive filler then we can work with them.

 

[MilEME09]

Nothing says we have to do it all ourselves either. If we have the capability to make the shell casings and someone else has the capability of doing the explosive filler then we can work with them.

There is one company in canada for explosive filler, why many of these companies arent scaling up idk, maybe they dont have access to the capital. Perhaps we need a critical defense industry loan program, super low interest loans from the government for the upgrade and expansion of critical industries like munitions production.

 

[KevinB]

There is one company in canada for explosive filler, why many of these companies arent scaling up idk, maybe they dont have access to the capital. Perhaps we need a critical defense industry loan program, super low interest loans from the government for the upgrade and expansion of critical industries like munitions production.

Or maybe just an actual Crown Corp for munitions.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Or maybe just an actual Crown Corp for munitions.

Or both.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We could be making an updated version of these and send them to Ukraine to deal with the Iranian drones. I suspect the cost would be pretty low per unit. the unit in the video was made by Inglis, I read that they were well liked by their crews.