Therapeutic Cannabis use

[BinRat55]

Viagra has tons of scientific, peer-reviewed evidence to backup dosages. I'd rather we end up spending $50 a gram on MM if we had the kind of research and clinical trials/testing that actual prescription medications are subject to, so that we know exactly how it effects the body and is safe.

Cannabis used in treatment of a psychosis IS relatively new. Prior to this, marijuana made Pink Floyd way cooler and pizza taste divine. No real studies, so we have to begin somewhere right? Marie Curie discovered radiation (which was here centuries before she was) and then died from it. Trial and error. 

If I walked into a doctor and asked for Percocet because my knee hurts and insisted it was the only thing that could help but only at this high dosage, I'd immediately be flagged as an addict. There's not much difference here, other than there's real science behind Percocet being highly addictive and dangerous in high doses. We don't have that info on MM because people don't want it to happen for whatever reason.

The biggest difference I can think of is this - Percocet has one use and one use only - turn off pain receptors. Medicinal cannabis is a multi-faceted treatment regime tailored for and by the individual. Much different than taking a pill. Also, run enough percs through that liver of yours and then compare it to mine. Would I be considered an "addict" if I ran out of the 300mg a day Sertraline and begged the pharmacist to "front" me more till my appointment? It's not a narcotic, but man I knew when I was not taking them...

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's great to see you posting  muskrat89.  That's a really sad situation but a great example of how MM can and should be used.  *IF* MM can get someone off a cocktail of pills then it's an awesome alternative.


Something I heard a few years ago from a private fresh from battle school has stuck with me.  "When I go to Afghanistan and get PTSD....". The context was about being able to tell boss's to fuck off and use PTSD as an excuse but he legitimately sounded like he was going to (somehow) get PTSD. He wasn't the only one either. Getting PTSD almost seemed expected.

Our medical system is already jam packed and struggling. A concern I'd have is that people leaving the CF and trying to get MMJ for bullshit reasons jamming the medical system even worse.  Young guys and girls doing a couple years then abusing and trying to get MMJ.

We say "how much is a life worth" when arguing about the dangers of dropping the limit from 10g to 3g and I understand that. It works both ways. Money spend on false claims is likewise putting soldiers in danger by taking money away from where it's needed.

 

[mariomike]

The context was about being able to tell boss's to fuck off and use PTSD as an excuse but he legitimately sounded like he was going to (somehow) get PTSD.

Why disrespect your employer? You won't get a good reference when they fire you.

Young guys and girls doing a couple years then abusing and trying to get MMJ.

 

[PuckChaser]

Cannabis used in treatment of a psychosis IS relatively new. Prior to this, marijuana made Pink Floyd way cooler and pizza taste divine. No real studies, so we have to begin somewhere right? Marie Curie discovered radiation (which was here centuries before she was) and then died from it. Trial and error. 

Right, but Marie Curie put those risks on herself. This day and age we don't experiment on humans without trials done on animals first. Any cannabis treatment thus far is anecdotal, with sparse scientific trials mostly due to the fact it remains a Schedule II drug. If we can get it moved to Schedule IV (http://www.wrps.on.ca/community-connections/drug-education/drug-law) and allow that testing to commence, we'll be far better off in knowing the long term effects of heavy (10g a day is heavy by any standard) use. Look at Mefloquine. In Somalia those guys were given double the dose we get now. I can't imagine the side effects I would have gotten with a double dose. That was a clinical trial with massive dosages and 20 years later we're just finding out how dangerous it was to them.

You'll also find most "legalize marijauna" sites profess that Cannabis doesn't cause "ODs" or psychosis, unless you have a pre-existing mental health condition. We're slamming vets with huge mental health conditions full of high concentrations of a drug (50% more powerful than pizza and Pink Floyd era) with limited science.

The biggest difference I can think of is this - Percocet has one use and one use only - turn off pain receptors. Medicinal cannabis is a multi-faceted treatment regime tailored for and by the individual. Much different than taking a pill. Also, run enough percs through that liver of yours and then compare it to mine. Would I be considered an "addict" if I ran out of the 300mg a day Sertraline and begged the pharmacist to "front" me more till my appointment? It's not a narcotic, but man I knew when I was not taking them...

With any drug you can develop a dependence, including MMJ. If you need the SSRI to function, you're addicted to the effects, albeit through no fault of your own. It modifies behaviour significantly enough create that physical withdrawal symptom set. MMJ can do the same thing. You also didn't initially walk up to your physician and ask for a script for Sertraline. It was recommended based on a body of solid scientific evidence with known side effects and long term effects. You wouldn't shop around to find a physician to prescribe you that Sertraline, so why should groups work to help people doctor-shop so they can get the drug they want?

Although not from Percs, my liver is likely sufficiently smashed up from a misspent youth in a university town.  ;D

 

[BinRat55]

There is a great opportunity here to do actually that - run your tests, do your research. There is a viable base of thousands (read hundreds of willing participants) with bona-fide measures of broken... ask me all the questions you want. Extrapolate all the data you need. It will surprise you I'm sure.

As for mefloquine - I'm living THAT nightmare too... but that's another thread. 10 gr a day is not a heavy dose when put into the correct contex as I and a few others have attempted to explain.

Most of us don't "shop" doctors... I heard of this treatment while I was still  serving. Using my limited judgement, really wanting to find an answer decided  to try something new.

It worked. More than likely same or similar story for most vets.

Sure I'll stipulate to being addicted... to feeling right for a change.

 

[PuckChaser]

I've seen the post, the dose is heavy if you're smoking it, fairly light if you're making edibles and oil. This is where proper medications can be made with the oil, at a pharmaceutical company with Health Canada and Industry Canada inspectors making sure every dose is the same and every dose is not tampered with.

It absolutely is a great opportunity to run tests and research, but in the proper way. Giving everyone who asks for it MMJ at whatever dose they want is not scientifically accurate. There's no control group, no placebo group. Everyone is going to say it works because they will get some form of relief. Whether it works safely, or for everyone, we have no idea. They're just starting slow and careful research into high-CBD, low-THC MMJ for severe childhood epilepsy. Great promise there, but no one has opened the floodgates yet because there are some severe side effects with brain development in minors smoking pot recreationally.

Let me be clear, I would like to see this work out well as a treatment. The problem is, we've put the cart before the horse and MMJ is being treated as a homeopathic remedy instead of an actual medication which it has great potential to be. A bunch of backyard botanists and chemists can make all the claims they want about this strain or that strain, but with no science behind it I could go smoke pine needles and make the same claims.

 

[Stoker]

We letting people grow it and buy it from operators who have questionable quality control including the many unlicensed dispensaries. Lately we have been seeing the results of this lack of quality from anything from mold on the product and trace amounts of fertilizer in the finished product.  Unless health Canada is willing to enforce standards then it may be better to turn it over a drug companies where they have the quality control and experience to provide a safe product to the end user.

 

[BinRat55]

We letting people grow it and buy it from operators who have questionable quality control including the many unlicensed dispensaries. Lately we have been seeing the results of this lack of quality from anything from mold on the product and trace amounts of fertilizer in the finished product.  Unless health Canada is willing to enforce standards then it may be better to turn it over a drug companies where they have the quality control and experience to provide a safe product to the end user.

Holy.... mold? Fertilizer? Are we really THAT far into the "weeds" on this? Lol!!

 

[Stoker]

Holy.... mold? Fertilizer? Are we really THAT far into the "weeds" on this? Lol!!

You have to admit that quality control is very important to the end user, after all if the government is providing this as a treatment you want to have the best product imaginable.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/globe-investigation-whats-in-your-weed-we-tested-dispensary-marijuana-to-findout/article31144496/

 

[the 48th regulator]

No, its a facebook page that a site member created. It was very educational on the MM veteran community. Sadly instead of rational arguments its filled lots of spam and "free living" but still educational all the same.

Please do not give a false description of the site.  Remember, you were removed and blocked/banned from there for being a prohibitionist, harming the membership.

Stay in your lane, and please do not discuss my site on these means as if you are in the know, of what it is.

Green veterans Canada is a Peer support group for Canadian Veterans and Medical Cannabis.  We are the largest on Facebook, and have the support of many organizations within the community, and industry.

How many groups do you manage that help veterans?

 

[Flavus101]

Zeb, that is ridiculous.

He is stating his interpretation of what his time in the group consisted of.

I really do not have a dog in this fight, I do however like reading the articles that are posted and the discourse that comes from them.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Zeb, that is ridiculous.

He is stating his interpretation of what his time in the group consisted of.

I really do not have a dog in this fight, I do however like reading the articles that are posted and the discourse that comes from them.

Fair enough,

There is more to this than his post and my retort.  I don't mean to sound crass, but please do not interfere as you said, you have no dog in this fight.

Thank you, sorry for being ubrupt with you, just want to let you know there is more to this than what you have read.

 

[Flavus101]

That's fair.

Is it possible for that to be kept out of what really is an informative thread?

As I said, I really do like learning about this subject and it does affect me in my role in the CAF.

 

[the 48th regulator]

That's fair.

Is it possible for that to be kept out of what really is an informative thread?

As I said, I really do like learning about this subject and it does affect me in my role in the CAF.

I think you are addressing your needs to the wrong person.  I am just defending my Group, which offers Peer Support from someone that is passing themself off as a SME, and thinks they can judge the group, based on what he experienced.  He was tossed for a reason.  You want the real deal, talk to a Cannabis Patient, Wounded Veteran, and Advocate.  Trust me I can put you in touch with a few.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You have to admit that quality control is very important to the end user, after all if the government is providing this as a treatment you want to have the best product imaginable.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/investigations/globe-investigation-whats-in-your-weed-we-tested-dispensary-marijuana-to-findout/article31144496/

Right.  What happens when a former service member gets infected with something or even dies because of a hypothetical QC issue in MMJ that VAC paid for.  Multiple million dollar lawsuit would be my guess.

 

[Stoker]

Please do not give a false description of the site.  Remember, you were removed and blocked/banned from there for being a prohibitionist, harming the membership.

Stay in your lane, and please do not discuss my site on these means as if you are in the know, of what it is.

Green veterans Canada is a Peer support group for Canadian Veterans and Medical Cannabis.  We are the largest on Facebook, and have the support of many organizations within the community, and industry.

How many groups do you manage that help veterans?

So you are trying to say I am against MM, and a prohibitionist. No I am not, not once did I post anything over there.  The spam as I said was all the crap that had nothing to do with Therapeutic Cannabis use. Please refrain from attacking me as I was commenting on all the posts that had nothing to do with the subject of your site.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Right.  What happens when a former service member gets infected with something or even dies because of a hypothetical QC issue in MMJ that VAC paid for.  Multiple million dollar lawsuit would be my guess.

:rofl:

What's your next crusade?  Coconuts??

 

[the 48th regulator]

So you are trying to say I am against MM, and a prohibitionist. No I am not, not once did I post anything over there.  The spam as I said was all the crap that had nothing to do with Therapeutic Cannabis use. Please refrain from attacking me as I was commenting on all the posts that had nothing to do with the subject of your site.

Please refrain to posting anything to do with our site, you have no clue, and the fact you have been turfed proves that.  Look at your posts on these means.  Opinion does not make you a Pundit.  Please

 

[Halifax Tar]

Agreed MJ defiantly is not as harmful as cigarettes or alcohol or apparently coconuts. 

But:

http://www.today.com/health/driving-while-high-marijuana-causing-spike-fatal-accidents-t91746
http://www.ibtimes.com/driving-while-high-dangerous-fatal-car-accidents-involving-marijuana-triple-over-10-years-1553319
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/cully-stimson/stoned-drivers-are-killing-more-and-more-innocent-victims
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/us-states-with-legal-pot-sales-see-rise-in-fatal-accidents-by-high-drivers/article26947558/
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/national/article52135295.html

So while not nearly as bad; still its not 0. 

Outside medical prescriptions, IMHO, we should treat it like booze.  Put a legal age of usage on it, stock in the NSLC, LCBO ect and tax the crap out of it. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

:goodpost:

However, you can really attribute all your links to anything that distracts drivers.

Or I can truck out links to News that counter those claims....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/08/05/since-marijuana-legalization-highway-fatalities-in-colorado-are-at-near-historic-lows/?utm_term=.ce80760f5dd1

So what do we do.  Ban radios, airconditioners, Lipstick, Sandwhiches, and the mirros with the light in Cars?