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Thinking outside the box (re: D-Day)

bossi

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It‘s too bad they didn‘t include a few D-Day veterans as VIP guests on this cruise (yes, I know a frigate isn‘t a cruise liner, but it could have been a nice gesture, as well as more inclusive ... but, of course, it‘s so much easier to just say "can‘t do it" instead of "let‘s work overtime to find a way to say ‘can do‘ like the paratroopers in the second article" - thank goodness our war veterans said "Can Do")

Frigate headed to Europe for D-Day anniversary

A Halifax-based navy frigate and its crew are heading to the English Channel on Tuesday to take part in an international tribute marking the 60th anniversary of D-Day.

HMCS Charlottetown will sail to Portsmouth, England, to join ships from Britain, the United States and France. They‘ll be doing a re-enactment of the crossing of the channel to Caen, France, on June 5, a news release Friday said.

On June 6, the day the Allies in 1944 stormed French beaches during the Second World War, the modern ships will participate in a sail-past and anchor off Juno Beach during an official ceremony.

D-Day was a crucial military operation in Nazi-occupied France and led to the end of the war in Europe in 1945.

Cmdr. Ken Hoffer, commanding officer of the Charlottetown, said it‘s a privilege to take part in the anniversary events.

"We are deeply honoured to represent and recognize (veterans‘) contributions to the freedom and security we enjoy today as Canadians," he said.

After the D-Day tribute, the Charlottetown will participate in an international naval exercise in Europe.

++++

WWII veterans practice jumps for D-Day event
3 prepare to take plunge next month over Normandy
By Michael Burge, San Diego Union-Tribune staff writer
May 20, 2004

LAKE ELSINORE â “ The air under the parachutes of three World War II veterans lifted their spirits as they coasted earthward yesterday in their quest to prove they are fit enough to jump over Normandy, France, next month to commemorate D-Day.

On Tuesday, the trio learned that the mayor of Sainte-Mere-Eglise, Normandy, gave them permission to parachute June 7, the day after the official two-day ceremony to mark the 60th anniversary of D-Day.

But one veteran, 83-year-old Richard "Red" Falvey, dislocated his left shoulder on his second descent at Skylark Airport, raising doubts about whether he will be able to jump next month.

His two comrades passed their two qualifying jumps yesterday with little incident.

To qualify, they and five other veterans around the country must perform two jumps, have medical clearance and sign a waiver of liability, said Richard Mandich, 79, of San Diego, who jumped yesterday.

Falvey said he hurt his arm in the early stages of his second jump, although he wasn‘t sure how, but he managed to make a one-armed landing. He was banged up but smiling after hitting the ground hard.

"It‘s just a dislocation and that doesn‘t amount to a hill of beans," said Falvey, of Hammondsport, N.Y., adding that he still wanted to do the Normandy jump.

Ed Dickinson of Skydive Elsinore, the group‘s instructor, said a physician would have to determine whether Falvey, who was taken to a doctor, is fit to jump at Normandy.

His first jump was incident-free.

"It was the most wonderful jump I ever had," Falvey declared moments after touching down.

The three veterans are all former members of the 101st Airborne Division who jumped during combat during World War II.

Mandich, who is president of the national group Return to Normandy and lives in Loma Portal, snagged a windsock on a pole on his first landing but was unhurt.

"I couldn‘t hit that windsock if I tried," he deadpanned afterward.

Dick Case, 83, of Las Vegas, lay still for a minute after hitting the ground hard on his first jump, giving those watching a scare, but he was fine.

"I didn‘t land, I clobbered," he joked.

Mandich still hopes the group can parachute during the official ceremonies for D-Day anniversary June 5 and 6 in France, but the U.S. Army Europe, which is handling the U.S. part of the ceremony for the two days, has not given them permission.

Moreover, the schedule favors the veterans jumping June 7. France is awarding two who want to make the jump with the Legion of Honor on June 5, so they likely would be unavailable to jump that day, said Dr. Bettina Experton, a physician for Return to Normandy. And 600 active-duty members of the 82nd and 101st Airborne divisions are jumping June 6, leaving little room on the program for the veterans during the two-day ceremony.

A spokesman for the Army said organizers feared for the veterans‘ safety and the potential public-relations disaster should one of them get hurt.

A 79-year-old veteran, Rolland Duff, was killed when his parachute failed during a practice jump for the 50th anniversary of V-E Day in Moscow, May 1945.

Falvey remembered the incident well because he was next to jump and almost had selected Duff‘s parachute.

"I was kissed by angels," he said.

The three silver-haired veterans, all of whom appear to be healthy and in good shape, want to honor their World War II comrades, especially those who never made it home.

"(D-Day) was a very important date," said Case, noting that if the Normandy invasion had failed, the Allies would have been driven into the sea and Nazi Germany probably would have won the war.

"Had it not succeeded it would be a different world today," Case said. "All these guys that gave their lives, I‘d like them remembered."
 
Hey Bossi have you ever been on a frigate???? How many 70 to 80 year old men can spend all day going up and down ladders while being flung around in a sea state?? Not many. Plus if one did fall and get seriously hurt or killed. There is a huge liability issue. Its not a can or can‘t do issue its a common dog issue. If you have no idea what your talking about stop.

You think an 80 year old could even climb into a middle or top rack? Or do you know what I am talking about?
 
Sledge, hold your horses there... Read the second article again, they have a number of 80-yr olds doing parachute jumps. Surely, some others could manage to live on a ship for a short period of time.
 
Jungle were would you suggest they stay? There are only a finite number of racks available. I have seen older people onboard during tiger cruises. But there are waivers and all sorts of crap to deal with. Better to just fly them over.
 
Nothing was said about the men staying on board the ships multiple days. If they were flown to the UK, boarded the ship there and sailed for the crossing they‘d be off after several hours.

Yes, there would be waivers.. but it would be a nice show of respect and good PR.
 
He was saying for cruise across atlantic or that the impression I got. As for a few hours nothing is wrong with that.
 
Best bet is cruise on the France Ferry from Portsmouth to the Port of Caen like I did last summer - a final breakfast in the first class lounge before disembarking at the terminal - while the ladies put on their cam paint - and you are on the beaches of the Brit Sector to left of Canucks in ten mins or less. See www.brittany-ferries.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=64 -- click the CAEN link - its the port of Ouistreham - you take a hard right turn off the ferry and you are on the beaches. They dropped 11,000 tons of bombs right behind the housing line on your left. We met a Cdn Vet from NB who stayed over in UK after the war - seems the UK girls were very nice - once you had had your fill of Fritz. I asked him about the training programs - he said it was day after day of practise landings and straight up a hill with your full rucksack - mind you they were all 18 at the time

Once you get to the Normandy Pavilion - save up for it and go - or talk your unit into a rucksack march from there while you practise for Nijmegen... you‘ll need your map as most of what happened has been cleaned up.

We stayed in the town of Bayeux - which was well worth it. If nothing else seeing a different life style for a while beats the armouries and Teem Horton‘s as they say in Paris.

We were there 17 Sep 03

Then we went to Dieppe on 18 Sep

As for the old boys going parachuting - well gramps this may be the time you really make history, but its your call!

If anyone goes there -

1. study your maps before you do go
2. get the WW2 Official History of the landings for Canada - where the Canada Pavilion is almost identical to what was there 60 years ago - a big fight with Can Scots and R Wpg Rif in that sector
3. See -
a. Bayeux Normandy Museum
b. Arromanches Logistic Port and Museum (Yes - sad to say its true - the Infantry die quite quickly without the food, ammo and water provided by us B ech crossed paper clip types)
c. The Airborne Bridges at the Orne River
d. The Beny Sur Mer Cdn War Cemetery

If nothing else see these sites CANADIANS at JUNO BEACH www.junobeach.org

Imperial War Museum http://www.iwm.org.uk/dday/london2.htm

French Government site - POKE your way in as the vets did :) www.liberation60.gouv.fr/?menu=Normandie -- look for the animation - click the ENGLISH TAG AT THE TOP BORDER and you will get a good idea of what went on with the animations

Normandy links www.normandyallies.org/nlinks.htm

Enjoy!
 
Unfortunately, it sure sounds as if there's a Veteran's Affairs employee somewhere who couldn't think outside the box if their life depended on it ... (sure glad this whanker wasn't at D-Day, or we'd be speaking German ...)

Good Grief!  "... privacy concerns ..."!!??!!  What an absolute crock (i.e. somewhere, buried in the archives of the War Museum ... they've probably got nominal rolls and manifests of troops who where at D-Day - thus, it's PUBLIC RECORD!)

Sounds to me like some bureaucrat stubbed their dink, scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel in order to avoid some extra work interfering with their crossword puzzle ... (oxymoronic, eh?  A dink stubbing their dink).

Ottawa passed on free-flight-for-vets offer

Veterans Affairs blames privacy concerns for turning down 100 seats on Air Canada
By Jane Taber (Globe and Mail)
UPDATED AT 11:10 AM EDT  Saturday, Jun 5, 2004

OTTAWA -- Veterans Affairs Minister John McCallum and his department refused an offer from Air Canada to fly 100 veterans for free to France for this weekend's D-Day commemoration ceremonies, saying it was too complicated, sources said.

The airline quietly made the offer in May during the controversy over the limited number of veterans the government was taking to France.

Sources said that the Department of Veterans Affairs told the airline it couldn't accept the offer because privacy reasons prevented it from confirming whether someone was a D-Day veteran.

The government initially planned to take 60 veterans, but after much pressure, Mr. McCallum relented and offered a $1,000 subsidy for any other veteran wanting to go to France.

It was while the minister was mulling over his options, sources said, that Air Canada approached senior officials in the department and offered the seats, asking only that the veterans pay the federal taxes -- about $75 to $100 -- on the trip worth $750.

The airline held back 100 seats on planes that would depart from Montreal and Toronto to Paris just before the June 6 anniversary.

"It's a complete embarrassment on their part," the source said about the department's refusal. "Here they had the opportunity to bring over 100 veterans, absolutely free.

"The issue is a private-sector corporation offering to do something positive for deserving veterans and the government couldn't organize itself enough to help."

A spokesman in Mr. McCallum's office denied that the department refused the airline's offer.

Shane Diaczuk confirmed Air Canada's offer of the seats, but said that the airline had wanted Veterans Affairs to "do the bookings . . .

"And we said we can't do the bookings for you because there was no one to be a travel agent."

Mr. Diaczuk also said that a plan was "all set up and ready to go" but "at the last minute, after we made our $1,000 announcement, the seats were taken up, they had a run on Air Canada seats."

Sources said Air Canada had asked the department to verify the eligibility of the former soldiers to ensure they would be D-Day veterans -- but that request was refused for privacy reasons.

"If there are 100 fewer veterans going to D-Day it is because of the government screwing up," a source said.

"All the veterans would have [had] to pay for would be the government taxes and surcharges, which would have amounted to less than $100."

It took the department a week to say no to the offer, at which point, sources said, Air Canada released the seats.

Several days later, Veterans Affairs came back to Air Canada and asked for the seats back, but by that time they were booked, according to the sources.

Air Canada spokeswoman Laura Cooke declined to comment, but confirmed that the airline made a similar offer last summer to the victims of the B.C. forest fires.

Between 20 and 30 families whose homes had burned down were flown out to stay with relatives or friends in other cities or towns.

The airline had the co-operation of the B.C. government, which verified that the families had lost their homes.

Meanwhile, the issue around who is going to the D-Day commemorations and who has been excluded has been a public relations nightmare for the government.

As well as the pressure to bring more veterans, Prime Minister Paul Martin invited the three opposition leaders to go along with him.

They have refused; Conservative Leader Stephen Harper offered his seat to a D-Day veteran from his riding.
 
The veterans deserve someone better than that boob McCallum looking after them.

The only reason a bunch of the veterans even made it to Normandy was due to a public outcry.

My understanding was on the first draft, there were more support personnel from McCallum's
office going than fully-sponsored veterans.  

He's an embarrassment.



Matthew.   >:(
 
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