This is not the Canada I remember [Boo-ing Team USA]

[Kat Stevens]

Do we really want to swap shelter and comfort stories in here? 9-11, anyone?  It's about hockey, it happened, it was crappy, we get it.  Let's move on.

 

[Kal]

This team was touted as the tournament favorite. They have all sorts of NHL draft picks (current and future) on their team. They turned out to be arrogant individuals who can't or don't play as a team and finds no fault in taking obvious cheap shots at their opponents. (As seen in the games against Canada, Finland and Russia)

These are not boys, there are young men...18 and 19 yr olds. They have friends and peers old enough to die for their country...those hockey players can be booed.

+1

 

[dutchie]

Because the guy who was there has told us it was mostly at the team & not the individual responsible.

No, that's not what I said. Here's a quote from my post:

"They were booing Team USA, and to a lesser extent, Jack Johnson, not the US as a nation or a people."

I initially made the post only because of the chant, "US -SUCKS"  I guess you can take it many ways.

I took it as an anti-US easy to do thing.  As far as cheap shots in games and etc, I haven't watched much hockey so I can't comment on that.  However, Canada is not the place I grew up in, I always thought of Americans as our friends (I guess it helps to have US  parents/Grandparents....etc)

It is really a telling commentary on Canada-US relations when we assume this kind of thing is politically motivated. I'm not criticizing you sir, I can totally see how it was misconstrued. Of course there were jackasses in the crowd spewing Anti-US garbage, but they were the minority, and I think you'd find that anywhere in the world. I can tell you, that from what I saw and heard, it was more anti-Team USA and anti-Jack Johnson than anti-American. The media, as usual, blew it completely out of proportion.

 

[George Wallace]

I never saw the incident that precipitated this post, but the Vancouver Fans are notorious for their lack of good judgement in many cases like this.  It isn't the first time they have behaved in such a way.  Then again, I have often seen Fans at Sporting Events yelling that the opposing Team Sucks, as well as the "Umpire Sucks", the "Ref Sucks", etc.

As to US politicians slamming Canada; I seem to remember John Carrie saying some nasty things towards Canada in the last Election.  Some not so complimentary statements have also been said in many of the Trade Disputes that have been taking place.  Seems Evil Canada not only gets the laughs on South Park, but also in real life is condemned during the BSE outbreak and Canadian Beef was now verboten.

Oh well, such is life.

 

[dutchie]

last post on this topic,
I see your point, but unfortunately as things like this become more common place it only makes the divide that much more deeper.  I have yet to see a US politician stomp on a CDN Paul Martin Doll, use nasty words to describe CDN politicians, etc...the same cannot be said about CDN politicians, and we all know those incidents. 

To see things like this at an international sporting event is shameful.....

No, but you DO have plenty of jackass political commentators taking cheapshots at Canada, but that's beside the point. US politicians don't do it as much because quite frankly, we're not even on the radar. Not so up here.

But I agree with what you said. But it was shameful not because they booed Americans, but because they booed kids. That's not on.

I say again, I was there - I heard the boos - they were directed at the team, not the country.

 

[Chimo]

I find it ironic the more Canadians try not be be Americans the more our behaviours mirror them. Booing is in poor taste regardless of the situation. I think enthusiasm in support of your team is great and expected. It only lowers your own standing by displaying your poor sportsmanship through booing.

I think this also touches on a larger issue of American bashing. It seems to have become a national past time. We should never forget that they are our closest friends and allies. Even if we do not totally agree with them all the time, we still live in the same neighbourhood.

I live in the USA and frequently, I hear comments that are negative towards Canada and Canadians. Where appropriate I discuss the issue but frankly sometimes the criticism is deserved.

Remember you are a Soldier, in and out of uniform. You should be setting a positive example to the public and be a role model to your children. 

 

[McG]

No, that's not what I said. Here's a quote from my post:

"They were booing Team USA, and to a lesser extent, Jack Johnson, not the US as a nation or a people."

This is what I attributed to you.  Majority of the venom was directed at Team USA, and the lesser part of the venom at Jack Johnson.  Therefore, the majrity of the "boo-ing" was directed at the individual responsible for the cheap-shot.

I say again, I was there - I heard the boos - they were directed at the team, not the country.

But, like it or not, that team is a symbol of the USA.

1- The US fans in '04 booed the Canadian team in the US.
2-The Canadian fans booed the US team in Canada in '05.

Okay.  You do think that US spectators “boo-ing” a Team Canada makes it okay to “boo” a Team USA.  Would US spectators pissing on a Canadian flag convince you the same would be okay of Canadian spectators?

If Team Canada was booed at the World Juniors by Americans while playing another team, I would take that as a compliment.

Just as the top player of the opposition is often booed in any sport, the top team coming into this tournemant was booed. Yes, that's right, the US was favored to win it all. By booing, the fans are acknowleging the quality of the team.

Okay.  “Boo-ing” is not a compliment.  It is a sign of strong disapproval to contempt.  Its for show-boats, guys breaking the rules & getting away with it, or the guys that go out there to physically break other players. 

. . . but, to use your analogy of “boo-ing” as a compliment, what does it say during a game after our team had already kicked Team USA out of a shot for top spot?

Booing sports teams shows poor sportsmanship by the spectators. 

There is the right answer.

Booing is in poor taste regardless of the situation. I think enthusiasm in support of your team is great and expected. It only lowers your own standing by displaying your poor sportsmanship through booing.

There again: the right answer.

 

[dutchie]

But, like it or not, that team is a symbol of the USA.

So? What's your point? Fans can't voice there desire to see their arch-rivals lose to a lesser rival?

Okay.  You do think that US spectators “boo-ing” a Team Canada makes it okay to “boo” a Team USA. 

I don't need Americans to boo Team Canada to justify booing them, provided we're talking about an adult team. What is so wrong with wanting your arch rival to lose?

Would US spectators pissing on a Canadian flag convince you the same would be okay of Canadian spectators?

A total red herring. Flag pissing/burning is offensive in the extreme to the nation and a DIRECT desecration of the symbol of the USA. You cannot even begin to compare the two, no matter how much you'd like to.

Okay.  “Boo-ing” is not a compliment.  It is a sign of strong disapproval to contempt. 

Do you get this upset when the Oilers are booed by Edmonton fans? When the Eskimos are booed for poor play at home? Why is booing Team USA different (other than the age issue, which we agree on)?

Its for show-boats, guys breaking the rules & getting away with it, or the guys that go out there to physically break other players. 

I have no clue where you get this. Guys breaking the rules? What are you talking about? What's the correlation of booing fans to rule breaking head hunters?

. . . but, to use your analogy of “boo-ing” as a compliment, what does it say during a game after our team had already kicked Team USA out of a shot for top spot?

Actually, if USA had won the game against Russia (in which they were booed), they would have faced Canada in the Gold Medal game....so they weren't knocked out of top spot...yet.

 

[2 Cdo]

To Gunner and the rest who seem to think it is some sort of crime to boo a sports team. Holy crap, have you ever been to any sporting match or game in your life? That's what fans do, they cheer for their team and boo the opposition, end of story.
As for the comment about booing children, these players are 16 and older. Correct me if I'm wrong but at 16, you can still join the reserves with parents consent? You can drive a car with proper licensing. Most of these players are 18-19 and the last time I checked, at that age you can serve your country and maybe even die for your country. Kids, I think not. Maybe young adults, who some day will probably make more money in one year then most of us will see in a lifetime!
Get over it folks, it was just fans doing what ALL fans do. Chalk it up to heat of the moment and high emotions, all done in support of the home team.

As an aside, never in my life did I actually think that one day Canadians would be cheering for the Russians. Those commie, pinko, heathens don't ever deserve having Canadians cheer for them!  Remember '72!

Good to see us beat them evil Ruskies, and the shutout was just icing on the cake!

 

[McG]

So? What's your point? Fans can't voice there desire to see their arch-rivals lose to a lesser rival?

They could do that by cheering for the "lesser rival" as opposed to throwing what amounts to insult at the "arch-rival."  Why do you need to be negative?

A total red herring. Flag pissing/burning is offensive in the extreme to the nation and a DIRECT desecration of the symbol of the USA. You cannot even begin to compare the two, no matter how much you'd like to.

It is only moderately different, because Team USA is also a symbol of the USA.

What are you talking about?

I will slow it down for you: "Boo-ing" is something your throw at the shit-heads in a game while they are being shit-heads.  It is not a compliment.  It is a sign of disapproval or contempt.

 

[dutchie]

They could do that by cheering for the "lesser rival" as opposed to throwing what amounts to insult at the "arch-rival."  Why do you need to be negative?

Wow...that's it? That's your argument? C'mon, McG, you have standards to maintain. 'Why be so negative'? What's next, don't worry, be happy? It's International Hockey, and this is Canada. If you don't like passionate fans, don't attend or watch.

It is only moderately different, because Team USA is also a symbol of the USA.

Weak, very weak. Pissing on a flag is akin to desecration of Colours. Would you say someone saying "Engineers suck" is akin to pissing on your Colours?

I will slow it down for you: "Boo-ing" is something your throw at the crap-heads in a game while they are being crap-heads.  It is not a compliment.  It is a sign of disapproval or contempt.

You boo losers in the stands? I just tell them to grow up and shut up. Booing is done in every competitive team sport. It can be done to your own team to show disapproval of their play, or to the opposition to show your desire for their defeat. It is not normally a political statement, and it wasn't in Vancouver the other night (for the most part).

 

[dutchie]

As an aside, never in my life did I actually think that one day Canadians would be cheering for the Russians. Those commie, pinko, heathens don't ever deserve having Canadians cheer for them!  Remember '72!

Good to see us beat them evil Ruskies, and the shutout was just icing on the cake!

Amen, brother. I couldn't cheer for the Sovi..er 'Russians' no matter who they played. It's just plain un-Canadian.

 

[Glorified Ape]

I watched the cheap-shot by Jack Johnson (who'll die painfully, hopefully) but missed the other cheap-shots mentioned here (against Finland and another team?). I thought the JJ idiocy was an isolated incident - am I wrong?

 

[dutchie]

I watched the cheap-shot by Jack Johnson (who'll die painfully, hopefully) but missed the other cheap-shots mentioned here (against Finland and another team?). I thought the JJ idiocy was an isolated incident - am I wrong?

I didn't see the Finland game, so I can't say for sure, but I heard there was some dirty play on the US side. I hear it was just normal hockey stuff, nothing special.

 

[Chimo]

"Engineers suck"


WHO SAID THAT!  :threat:

 

[McG]

Weak, very weak. Pissing on a flag is akin to desecration of Colours. Would you say someone saying "Engineers suck" is akin to pissing on your Colours?

Well, the Engineers don't have colours, but that aside, the analogy does work even if it does take things to extremes.  However, to put it more in perspective for you; would you "Boo" the US Flag or antheme if you saw US fans do the same?  If you answer "no" then why would you "boo" the team which is also a symbol of the country?

You boo losers in the stands?

I'll slow it down some more for you: I'm talking of the shit-heads on the ice/field/court (fill in as appropriate for your sport).

 

[dutchie]

Well, the Engineers don't have colours, but that aside, the analogy does work even if it does take things to extremes. 

The analogy works? So, if I read you correctly, your saying that someone saying "Seaforth's suck" is akin to pissing on my Colours?

However, to put it more in perspective for you; would you "Boo" the US Flag or antheme if you saw US fans do the same?  If you answer "no" then why would you "boo" the team which is also a symbol of the country?

Because the flag and anthem are direct symbols of the nation and it's people - they serve no other purpose. You stand and remove your hat for the flag/anthem. You don't do the same for the team. The team may represent the American people, just as any group of Americans do abroad, but they are not even in the same league as the flag/anthem in terms of their symbolic significance to the nation. You really can't compare the 2 (or 3).

editted to add: When you boo the anthem, you are booing the nation which it is a symbol of. When you boo a team, any reasonable person would assume it is the TEAM you are booing, not the nation. You didn't answer my question McG: When the Edmonton Oilers/Eskimos are booed by their own fans, does that bother you? Do you think they are booing themselves as Edmontonians? No, obviously not. That would be silly. Is it the same as someone taking the crest of the city and pissing on it? Well now, that's just ridiculous.

I'll slow it down some more for you: I'm talking of the crap-heads on the ice/field/court (fill in as appropriate for your sport).

Well, the fans booed enemy #1 to the Canadian Team. That's sports. If you don't like it, go read a book, watch Seinfeld, do whatever. But for God's sake, turn off the game.

 

[Soon2binfantry]

I say you don't even have to cheer, you go to a hockey game cause you like the sport, not because you want to boo the other team because they're from another country, that's just immature. And by the way just because they boo'ed us last year what do we care if we don't retaliate to that then we're prooving that we're more mature and in the end more superior.

 

[dutchie]

I say you don't even have to cheer, you go to a hockey game cause you like the sport, not because you want to boo the other team because they're from another country, that's just immature. And by the way just because they boo'ed us last year what do we care if we don't retaliate to that then we're prooving that we're more mature and in the end more superior.

Ok, aside from your assinine last line there, I'll address what you said.

Why not cheer? Why not boo? Would you have us sit there in silent respect of the mighty USA so as not to offend them? Is that the sport you enjoy? Get real.

 

[McG]

The analogy works? So, if I read you correctly, your saying that someone saying "Seaforth's suck" is akin to pissing on my Colours?

Well, by your analogy it could be a compliment.

Because the flag and anthem are direct symbols of the nation and it's people -

And so is Team USA a symbol of US pride.  This is the critical element that you cannot seem to wrap your mind around.

Just consider "the summit on ice" when Team Canada beat the Soviets.  These were two national icons going head to head, and it had the attention and imagination of this whole country.  Those were not just two commercial teams that drew players from around the world on the offer of big bucks.

So, maybe you were sitting in the stands thinking you were just "boo-ing" another hockey team, but the whole world tuned in to see a bunch of Canadians throwing venom at a symbol of the USA.

McG: When the Edmonton Oilers/Eskimos are booed by their own fans, does that bother you? Do you think they are booing themselves as Edmontonians?

I assumed that you would have pieced the answer together from my other posts.  There is a place for booing (when someone's being a jerk in the game, when spectators spoil the flow of a game by entering or throwing objects into the playing area, etc).  However, making little of others so that ones self can feel better is the domain of the schoolyard bully.  "Negative cheering" or "boo-ing" is more akin to the school bully than to spectators showing good sportsmanship.

Its also important to recognize that a commercial sports team, which draws  players from around the world on the offer of big bucks, is not truly a symbol of its home city (unlike a national team which draws its players from the best of its own citizens).

Why not boo?

Because you can cheer instead.  "Boo-ing" implies contempt.  Contempt for one team does not automatically imply support for the other team.