Tips on Cleaning the C-7
- Thread starter Delta
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D
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jwsteele said:
Thanks for showing us that you have the makings of a good leader. Honesty, integrity, ethics, ... etc.
Sarcasm intended
Sorry Guys (and Gals) I couldn't help myself. :
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gun plumber said:
I don't believe chrome rusts, I think you would technically say it "oxidizes".
I don't know if WD-40 is good on moving parts in your rifle, because of special solvents in it, and it causes a build-up of crap (for lack of a better word). I once got that tip for maintaining my milsim paintball marker. I know what you're thinking, but if you shouldn't put it on a paintball gun, why should you put it in a real gun? Thats what I've been told, but I figure its not so much a problem when you clean it hardcore very often, and don't use your gun too much.
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Speaking of using Varsol...
In the 1RCR Coy lines we have Varsol Baths built into the weapons cleaning rooms complete with air vents and safety instructions. I've never used them personally, and I don't think they've been used in awhile, but the fact remains they do exist.
In the 1RCR Coy lines we have Varsol Baths built into the weapons cleaning rooms complete with air vents and safety instructions. I've never used them personally, and I don't think they've been used in awhile, but the fact remains they do exist.
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Here is a tip how not to clean your C-7! Never let anyone use oven cleaner. Someone used at my battle school once and completely stripped the bluing (not sure about the spelling)off of their weapon.CLP is for C-7's oven cleaner is for ovens and brake cleaner is for cars.
Oh yeah and I can't believe someone who is going to be a future leader in the army is suggesting that you toss your blanks into the bushes. I am pretty sure their are plenty of units in the CF who would love to have more blank ammo to enhance their training.
Blanks serve many purposes in training. Imagine being a commander leading a section attack with live ammo who never had led one with blanks on a previously . Do you think he would have the proper understaning of how hard it is to communicate with those around him with the noise created on the battlefield. What about knowing what it feels like to carry the weight of first line ammo.? What about kowing how to change mags when one is emty.
I could go on and on. Keeps your blanks and treat them as if they were the real thing!
Oh yeah and I can't believe someone who is going to be a future leader in the army is suggesting that you toss your blanks into the bushes. I am pretty sure their are plenty of units in the CF who would love to have more blank ammo to enhance their training.
Blanks serve many purposes in training. Imagine being a commander leading a section attack with live ammo who never had led one with blanks on a previously . Do you think he would have the proper understaning of how hard it is to communicate with those around him with the noise created on the battlefield. What about knowing what it feels like to carry the weight of first line ammo.? What about kowing how to change mags when one is emty.
I could go on and on. Keeps your blanks and treat them as if they were the real thing!Brake cleaner is designed to dissolve lubricants and then evaporate, leaving an absolutely pristine surface. It's an awesome way to very quickly remove oil and solvents.
The downside is that it removes ALL the oil. A weapon cleaned with brake cleaner is 100% absolutely bone dry. Good for drill sticks that never see use as a weapon, horrible for weapons that actually have to be fired.
My preferred method of cleaning weapons is as follows:
1) Ensure the weapon is properly lubricated BEFORE firing. Not only does this help the weapon operate and greatly reduce wear, The oil will tend to keep the carbon in suspension, rather than caking onto the metal surfaces.
2) As soon as possible after firing, wipe the weapon down and apply a generous coat of fresh oil. The wipe-down will remove a goodly amount of the carbon/oil mix and help make the subsequent oil application more effective in dissolving the remaining carbon. If time permits, work the oil into the weapon with a stiff brush.
3) Repeat step 2 throughout the exercise. It doesn't take very long to wipe the weapon down (removing the dirty oil) and re-oil it.
4) Once back in garrison, head to the varsol bath. The varsol dissolves the oil and makes it easier to wash away. Give it a good scrub with a stiff brush while in the bath (most solvent baths have a brush with a hose on it that works well for that) This will wash away almost all the oil, carbon, and dirt. If a varsol bath is not readily availible, hot water and detergent will also work well, but the weapon will have to be COMPLETELY dried after.
5) Even if you hit it with an air gun (to dry the varsol) it still works itself into crooks and crannies and won't come out - and most varsol baths get cleaned once every million years, so the varsol is more like super thin oil anyways. Time for the brake cleaner. Give it a good spray, paying attention to crooks and crannies. NOTE: don't do this in confined spaces! This is a shop floor or outside step, not your bedspace!
6) Run the barrel brush and swabs through until the swaps pull through pristine.
7) At this point, the weapon should be completely clean. It should pass any fingers-stick-in-odd-spots tests. It is also completely unlubricated, which is a big no-no for an operational weapon. If this weapon is to be used for anything other than a on-the-bed inspection, it MUST be re-oiled.
And that does it.
DG
The downside is that it removes ALL the oil. A weapon cleaned with brake cleaner is 100% absolutely bone dry. Good for drill sticks that never see use as a weapon, horrible for weapons that actually have to be fired.
My preferred method of cleaning weapons is as follows:
1) Ensure the weapon is properly lubricated BEFORE firing. Not only does this help the weapon operate and greatly reduce wear, The oil will tend to keep the carbon in suspension, rather than caking onto the metal surfaces.
2) As soon as possible after firing, wipe the weapon down and apply a generous coat of fresh oil. The wipe-down will remove a goodly amount of the carbon/oil mix and help make the subsequent oil application more effective in dissolving the remaining carbon. If time permits, work the oil into the weapon with a stiff brush.
3) Repeat step 2 throughout the exercise. It doesn't take very long to wipe the weapon down (removing the dirty oil) and re-oil it.
4) Once back in garrison, head to the varsol bath. The varsol dissolves the oil and makes it easier to wash away. Give it a good scrub with a stiff brush while in the bath (most solvent baths have a brush with a hose on it that works well for that) This will wash away almost all the oil, carbon, and dirt. If a varsol bath is not readily availible, hot water and detergent will also work well, but the weapon will have to be COMPLETELY dried after.
5) Even if you hit it with an air gun (to dry the varsol) it still works itself into crooks and crannies and won't come out - and most varsol baths get cleaned once every million years, so the varsol is more like super thin oil anyways. Time for the brake cleaner. Give it a good spray, paying attention to crooks and crannies. NOTE: don't do this in confined spaces! This is a shop floor or outside step, not your bedspace!
6) Run the barrel brush and swabs through until the swaps pull through pristine.
7) At this point, the weapon should be completely clean. It should pass any fingers-stick-in-odd-spots tests. It is also completely unlubricated, which is a big no-no for an operational weapon. If this weapon is to be used for anything other than a on-the-bed inspection, it MUST be re-oiled.
And that does it.
DG
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Just a point on Varsol....It is no longer approved for use in the CF by us end users. All those neat new Varsol Baths in those new hangars, are not allowed to be used. Something about it being a Carcinogen.
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Off topic - but while I was working aboard HMCS WINNIPEG in the Arabian Gulf region this summer, they actually used Vaseline® on the HMG's to prevent corrosion in that humid environment. It works. Don't try that in Afghanistan though!
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And in Afghanistan....you just pack the grease to your M242 to keep the dust out.
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If the dude wants to throw away his blanks, let him. Cause he's going to be cleaning his weapon twice as long as me and my buddies while we are off on the town..
This thing gets dirtier when you don't fire it!! Putting a mag of rounds through it might even be better than a coat of CLP!
This thing gets dirtier when you don't fire it!! Putting a mag of rounds through it might even be better than a coat of CLP!
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Hoover said:
Have you ever even fired blank ammo? Nothing is filthier or more gummy than blank round carbon.
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yeah i have to agree with you there. Maybe he's thinking of live ammo, after firring live i can always get my rifle really clean
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Hoover said:
Hoover,
You just don't get the concept of staying in your lanes and speaking factually do you? Last chance I think.
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jwsteele said:
I am biting!
Great post :
Coming from an OCDT, a potential officer and leader of men, well I find that shocking. The only thing I can agee on is your military experience in your profile, with says 'nothing yet'. That is obvious!You don't see the big deal, well I do. You hate firing them? Well pal, WTF are you doing in the Army? Its all about training for battle, training for war, whether your rifle gets dirty, or sounds like a cap gun is irrevellant. Its all about simulating live fire, and practising you section battle drills and other routines of field life.
In a nutshell with your attitude, you would not last a day in my section, and thats not copping it from me, but your fellow soldiers would sort you out, and you'd have tears as big as horse turds. I would just follow through on the admin side, firstly with a charge.
As much as it does noty fizz on me either, I use and treat my blanks rds like live rds, as do the others I train with, along with pyro and related battle-sim items. Its part of the job and training. What ever happened to train hard - fight easy, not that I am saying that combat or operational duty is easy, but I do hope you get my drift, and rather barking at me on here condemming me for having a go at you, before you put your combat boot in your mouth, just take a moment to SERIOUSLY think what you wrote. Its very unprofessional and simply trash.
Lesson learned? I guess your response will answer that. What type of Unit are you with in the first place. Any professional soldier would have a go at you quicksmart!
EDIT:
For those looking for short cuts on wpn maintenance, remember, you are what you shoot. Its not just your life, but the lives of your mates at stake. Never shower with it (or listen to other similar stupid rumours and things), thats another urban myth BUSTED. Stick to only authorised CLP and realted lubes, no abbrasives, cleaning patches and whats in the pam and cleaning kit. You can't go wrong there. You're lucky you have the Cdn climate to deal with, as here in the tropics its a complete different story. Ther is never any short cuts here, that can cause yoour wpn to fail when you need it most. The days of a 'spotless rifle white glove inspections' went out of service with the FN C1/L1A1 SLR.
Wes
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Wesley H. Allen said:
I would love to agree with you on this point, but about the only thing you got right is the white glove isn't used, or at least I haven't seen it. These are still the days of the spotless rifle, at least while on course. Instructors will keep looking and finding carbon, and troops will always be looking for ways to get rid of it. Troops will try all kinds of inventive ideas to try to get that "spotless rifle". Bad ideas or not, these "tips" are passed from course to course, buddy to buddy, and parent to child. Some of the idea work, some people swear by, some are right out in left field.
With any luck, these rifles that are used in the schools over the years, and treated to a variety of cleaning experiments, won't be used in an actual theater of operations. Can't say I would want to depend on one of them.
Hmm... for some reason, I can't help but think of my rubber rifle at CFSCE... Man I hated that thing, but at least I didn't have to clean it!
D
dutchie
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If I was advising a recruit, I'd say - do what your told, use what your given, don't deviate. But there ARE some good ideas out there, some I've tried, some I've not (but heard they work). But I would never advise a recruit to use them, nor condone it if I found out about it. I myself mostly use just CLP, the cleaning kit, A C5 knife, and elbow grease. The advice to always be wiping down and re-applying CLP is a good one too. That can cut down post-ex cleaning by 80%ish.
The recruit must learn the book before he can make an informed opinion on deviations. Plus, the struggle to keep your weapon clean despite little time and only the basic cleaning supplies builds a healthy work ethic for cleaning weapons. Struggle through, do your best to keep it clean, and take your licks when the Staff finds 'the most disgusting thing they've ever seen'. That's all part of being a soldier.
The recruit must learn the book before he can make an informed opinion on deviations. Plus, the struggle to keep your weapon clean despite little time and only the basic cleaning supplies builds a healthy work ethic for cleaning weapons. Struggle through, do your best to keep it clean, and take your licks when the Staff finds 'the most disgusting thing they've ever seen'. That's all part of being a soldier.
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JSR OP said:
Heat staining and carbon baked on which cannot be removed by CLP is left on the wpn parts. Any DS etc who claims it should be cleaned/removed needs to have his head read. Any loose carbon/dirt etc, sure thats open game for the beasters, but pers using unauthorised thinners and solvents are in breech of the rules set forth for preventive maintenance of the said eqpt.
So what can you use on the C7 FOW?? CLP and thats it. No other oil, solvent or lubricant is authorised PERIOD. This along with your cleaning kit acc's, and sure a blade of a Gerber can help to lift carbon, why not, just don't go overboard.
Abrasive material (emery cloth, sand, AJAX etc - ya I have seen it) or wire brushes are NOT to be used on aluminum surfaces of the C7 FOW, and nylon/plastic surfaces are not to be oiled. Oil defeats plastic over time, best to use a damp cloth for that. This info can be found in the wpns pam for this eqpt!
For those that are using gasoline, diesel, varsol, various civvy gun lubes, WD 40 etc. Don't. During my time in the CF, I had seen shocking things done, and why? Lack of properly trained NCOs and sheer IGNORANCE to the types of cleaning materials authorised. Just because its a short cut does NOT mean its good for the rifle (or the long term health of the soldier- its also an OHS issue, or duty of care -- many things can **** you up later on when you are older). Take it from this old dog, with 30yrs service and 29 yrs in the trade of an armourer. I am not just some REMFy gun plummer know-it-all!
Just one example, I have seen know-it-alls use gasoline and similar methods (once even directed under a Warrant Officer of the Regular Force), which seeped into the buffer assemblies (causing unnecessary damage and replacement), and get into the deepest darkest holes of the rifle.
Just use what is provided in your section/butt cleaning kit. Ensure you always have good jags and brushes which can be replaced thru the supply system. We don't got 'em is no excuse. Thats pure laziness! NCOs of the bin rats, be proactive, and get on to it, keep your Q Store up to speed, and make sure there is always a generous supply for replacement parts for the cleaning kits.
When it comes to weapons, and safety of us all, its by the book or not at all. Anyone who goes out on a limb with unauthorised methods is circumventing the chain of command, possiblely endangering himself or his mates, and is being an individual, and not part of the team. Don't get me wrong, if you don't like it or have a better idea, put it to paper and float it to the proper authority, as your way may indeed be better.
Shoot straight,
Wes
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