"Tories mull shrinking Veterans Affairs as old soldiers fade away "?

[The Bread Guy]

My concern:  If the article paraphrases the report properly, and if the Minister was quoted correctly, dumb question:  will cutting front-line staff (which tends to be how departments cut when it's time to cut) really be able to do the job?

This from the Globe & Mail:

Canada’s veterans are ebbing away, and as they go, government officials are asking how much of the Department of Veterans Affairs should go with them.

Every month 1,700 more veterans from the Second World War and Korean War die. Of the 1.1 million men and women who fought in the Second World War or in Korea, only 155,700 are still alive. Yet the operating budget of Veterans Affairs, which cares for surviving servicemen and women, has climbed by $325-million to $3.4-billion since 2006.

Four weeks ago, Keith Coulter, the former commissioner of prisons, submitted a report to Veterans Affairs Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn on the future role and responsibilities of the department.

The report is confidential. But Mr. Blackburn confirmed in an interview that it deals with how a smaller department will handle a reduced caseload. “We know that we will need fewer employees in the future,” he said. No decision has been made on whether layoffs will be needed or if the work force can be trimmed through attrition or reallocation. “But this department is still important, and there are new services to deliver to the new veterans,” Mr. Blackburn said.

Don Stewart and George Metcalfe are vice-presidents of the residents council at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto, which houses the largest long-term-care facility for veterans in the country.

“Well, I figure four more years, there’s not going to be very many veterans here,” Mr. Stewart acknowledges. Mr. Metcalfe is more colourful in his use of language: “I could see where Veterans Affairs could be assimilated into another department as the number of veterans decreases – you know, as us old buggers die off.”

The average age of the 500 men and women in Sunnybrook’s veterans wing is 88.

As the needs of veterans diminish with the passing of the oldest generation, one question is whether an entire department is necessary to manage the transition into society of current veterans of a much smaller Canadian Forces. About 2,200 veterans of the Afghanistan campaign are receiving special services.

(....)

The challenge, say those at Veterans Affairs, is to craft a smaller, more responsive department that serves the needs of a new generation of veterans.

(....)

“There is a class system within veterans groups,” says Colonel Pat Stogran, who serves as the Veterans Ombudsman. Governments are far less unconditional in their commitment to veterans today than they were after the Second World War, Col. Stogran believes, and financial compensation and other support for wounded veterans, be those wounds physical or psychological, are less generous than they were then.

Ken Miller, the department’s director of program policy, responds that the needs of modern veterans are very different from those who came home after the Second World War, when the government sought to accommodate a million men whose lives had been interrupted, and to prevent a recession by stimulating the economy through transfers to veterans.

Today, he said, the emphasis is on integrating former military personnel into the economy and society, bearing in mind the nature and severity of any injuries they might have sustained.

(....)

 

[Tank Troll]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tories-mull-shrinking-veterans-affairs-as-old-soldiers-fade-away/article1637549/


Read some of the comments if you really want to get Angry

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

What's the deal?  As cliental disappears, simply cut the department eventually folding it into a subgroup of the health department to kill the overhead that comes from a full blown federal ministry.  If Sunnybrook is a nice place start subbing out floors to the Ontario goverment to care for the upcoming rush of incapacitated baby boomers.

 

[ModlrMike]

Far too early for anyone to get their nickers in a twist. Particularly with this observation from the article:

The current Conservative government, which venerates the military, is especially unlikely to act.

 

[Brutus]

Personally, I think the issue of a shrinking department is secondary in importance to the change from monthly disability pensions to the lump sum payout. That policy is, IMHO, brutal. It reeks of 'go away' money to me.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Personally, I think the issue of a shrinking department is secondary in importance to the change from monthly disability pensions to the lump sum payout. That policy is, IMHO, brutal. It reeks of 'go away' money to me.

Lump sums are merely a way of fixing the cost to the federal government, allowing them to walk away without guilt.  If disabled veterans are human, the money is quickly spent and the costs are born by the less than senstive and sometimes very demanding provincial welfare systems.

 

[OldSolduer]

What has to happen is that people put their egos to one side  and ask:

What do our veterans need? How can we best SERVE them? Are THEIR needs being met?

What is the best way we can accomplish this?

Once this happens in an honest upfront way, progress will be made.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some of the latest from the Canadian Press:

Former soldiers and opposition New Democrats have railed against planned cuts to the Veterans Affairs Department.

Helen Rapp, a Second World War veteran, says veterans have been well cared for in the 65 years since she came home, but she's worried what will happen to those who served in Afghanistan.

(....)

New Democrat MP Peter Stoffer, the party's long-time veterans critic, said he doesn't trust the Conservative government to do right by veterans or their families because there have already been small cuts to services and broken promises.

Stoffer says he suspects the federal government is planning over the long-term to download the care of younger veterans on to provincial health-care systems.

He estimated there are currently as many as 700,000 military and RCMP veterans, as well as their families, who are eligible for services.

The caseload for veterans' staff, especially related to post-traumatic stress disorder, is increasing, Stoffer told a news conference Monday on Parliament Hill.

"When the minister speaks out loud like that, we know there's got to be reality to it and that these cuts are coming," he said.

As many as one in five Veterans Affairs employees will be eligible to retire in the next few years and not replacing them could mean a loss of 900 positions within a department that employees say is already over-stretched ....

- edited to add link -

 

[Brutus]

'The caseload for veterans' staff, especially related to post-traumatic stress disorder, is increasing, Stoffer told a news conference Monday on Parliament Hill.'

This is not accurate, according to friends who work for VA. The caseloads are shrinking due to the dwindling numbers of WW2 and Korea vets. Yes, the numbers of new vets requiring assistance is increasing, but not nearly enough to offset the decline in older vets.

Common sense tells me that this department will shrink now and then expand in a few decades as today's vets require care in their old age.

 

[George Wallace]

This is not accurate, according to friends who work for VA. The caseloads are shrinking due to the dwindling numbers of WW2 and Korea vets. Yes, the numbers of new vets requiring assistance is increasing, but not nearly enough to offset the decline in older vets.

Is this because Veteran's Affairs makes it so difficult for current Service Members to have their claims accepted?  There are more veterans in Canada besides those of the Korea and World War II era.  I could rant on about the work ethic of many Public Civil Servants in key positions who really do not serve the Canadian Public, nor the Canadian Veterans, but I will stop short here.

This is unacceptable.  Someone at Veterans Affairs should open up their eyes.

 

[the 48th regulator]

'The caseload for veterans' staff, especially related to post-traumatic stress disorder, is increasing, Stoffer told a news conference Monday on Parliament Hill.'

This is not accurate, according to friends who work for VA. The caseloads are shrinking due to the dwindling numbers of WW2 and Korea vets. Yes, the numbers of new vets requiring assistance is increasing, but not nearly enough to offset the decline in older vets.

Common sense tells me that this department will shrink now and then expand in a few decades as today's vets require care in their old age.

Your facts, you must admit, are anecdotal, and therefore I will tend to side with he article.  More awareness of OSI's will aid more of the soldiers to come forward and seek the htelp they need.  Further to that, Operational Stress injuries include more than PTSD. Anxiety and Depression are diagnosed at a higher level than that of PTSD

So, although, your friend told you about caseloads are shrinking due to the dwindling numbers of WW2 and Korea vets, you may want that person to clarify what the OSI case outlook is for the near future, not just PTSD.

dileas

tess

 

[Brutus]

Is this because Veteran's Affairs makes it so difficult for current Service Members to have their claims accepted?  There are more veterans in Canada besides those of the Korea and World War II era.  I could rant on about the work ethic of many Public Civil Servants in key positions who really do not serve the Canadian Public, nor the Canadian Veterans, but I will stop short here.

This is unacceptable.  Someone at Veterans Affairs should open up their eyes.

Oh, the NVC is a farce, making it harder for today's vets, but the actual number of vets currently 'in the system' with VA is in fact on the decline. The reasons for that are another matter entirely.

As far as the folks actually DOING the work at VA, I have found them to be contientious and compassionate, but the policies and bs associated with their job are certainly not.

 

[Brutus]

Your facts, you must admit, are anecdotal, and therefore I will tend to side with he article.  More awareness of OSI's will aid more of the soldiers to come forward and seek the htelp they need.  Further to that, Operational Stress injuries include more than PTSD. Anxiety and Depression are diagnosed at a higher level than that of PTSD

So, although, your friend told you about caseloads are shrinking due to the dwindling numbers of WW2 and Korea vets, you may want that person to clarify what the OSI case outlook is for the near future, not just PTSD.

dileas

tess

Forgive me, I was intending on commenting on strictly the quantitative factor - the actual numbers of vets currently receiving some kind of assistance from VA. One of my VA friends is very vocal about the changing face of vets - moving away from the geriatric, dwindling physical health type to the more complex and 'slippery' OSI coupled with severe physical injuries type of vet. The NVC could not have come at a worse time. She is appauled at the lack of attention given to OSIs and has on occasion vented to me her frustration with the system. It seems VA has figured out how to service the eldery Korea or WW2 vet (to varying degrees of success), but it appears to me that they are CLUELESS on how to really help topday's vets.

Personally, I believe we are going to have a significant problem on our hands if VA doesn't recognize the significant impact OSI has on returning vets. An once of prevention...

 

[the 48th regulator]

Forgive me, I was intending on commenting on strictly the quantitative factor - the actual numbers of vets currently receiving some kind of assistance from VA. One of my VA friends is very vocal about the changing face of vets - moving away from the geriatric, dwindling physical health type to the more complex and 'slippery' OSI coupled with severe physical injuries type of vet. The NVC could not have come at a worse time. She is appauled at the lack of attention given to OSIs and has on occasion vented to me her frustration with the system. It seems VA has figured out how to service the eldery Korea or WW2 vet (to varying degrees of success), but it appears to me that they are CLUELESS on how to really help topday's vets.

Personally, I believe we are going to have a significant problem on our hands if VA doesn't recognize the significant impact OSI has on returning vets. An once of prevention...

Your friend should then pay attention to detail.

OSISS  Is a joint program of VAC and DND, a first of it's kind to have separate federal departments working together on one goal.

The challenge that has arisen, is not the game, but the players who do not know the rules.  I do not want to say that your friend is a liar, however, I think that she is a wee bit misinformed.

That having been said, I would appreciate that you do not relay "Anecdotal" evidence, as you are propagating a myth.  This can harm Serving Soldiers and Vets, in that they will weary of coming forward because you state the system is clueless. 

I can guarantee you the system, although needs more improvement, is not as appalling as you and your friend are portraying it.

dileas

tess

 

[Brutus]

1- The 'clueless' comment is MY opinion.

2- PM sent.

I don't wish in any way to discourage ANY vet from asking for help when needed. My issue with VA is my PERSONAL perception of their ability to react to the changing environment, nothing more. Is the system appauling? Nope, and I never said that.And although you may appreciate it if I didn't relay 'anecdotal evidence', I haven't actual done so. All I've done is relayed the thoughts of a good friend of mine on the frustrations she feels in her job. 

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

'The caseload for veterans' staff, especially related to post-traumatic stress disorder, is increasing, Stoffer told a news conference Monday on Parliament Hill.'

Veterans Affairs Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn stated last week that "The Veterans Affairs Department will have to shrink as about 1,700 elderly war vets are dying each month, but it will not be closed or merged with the Defence Department."  Unless somebody has a figure that indicates the CF is generating 1700 new veterans a month (roughly 400% of the currently deployed CF) then the Member of Parliament for Sackville—Eastern Shore is mistaken.

 

[George Wallace]

Veterans Affairs Minister Jean-Pierre Blackburn stated last week that "The Veterans Affairs Department will have to shrink as about 1,700 elderly war vets are dying each month, but it will not be closed or merged with the Defence Department."  Unless somebody has a figure that indicates the CF is generating 1700 new veterans a month (roughly 400% of the currently deployed CF) then the Member of Parliament for Sackville—Eastern Shore is mistaken.

How many Veterans have we created since 1945?  Lets not just focus on today's new Veterans from Afghanistan.  There are Veterans from Vietnam, Gagetown's Agent Orange days, Bosnia, Cyprus, Somalia, the Congo, Rwanda, Haiti, and thousands of other locations, including Germany.  There are thousands of Veterans being ignored as they are after WW II.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

How many Veterans have we created since 1945?  Lets not just focus on today's new Veterans from Afghanistan.  There are Veterans from Vietnam, Gagetown's Agent Orange days, Bosnia, Cyprus, Somalia, the Congo, Rwanda, Haiti, and thousands of other locations, including Germany.  There are thousands of Veterans being ignored as they are after WW II.

Canada made a special committment to WWII vets who served in a theatre of war that they would always be supported by veteran's allowances regardless of any disability.  Theatre of war came to mean taking the ferry to Vancouver Island.  It was Veteran's Affair's welfare to keep them off regular welfare.  Some veterans had words of disrespect for such individuals.

To my knowledge the only needs to be met for subsequently created veterans are for actual disability caused by service.

 

[OldSolduer]

Canada made a special committment to WWII vets who served in a theatre of war that they would always be supported by veteran's allowances regardless of any disability.  Theatre of war came to mean taking the ferry to Vancouver Island.  It was Veteran's Affair's welfare to keep them off regular welfare.  Some veterans had words of disrespect for such individuals.

To my knowledge the only needs to be met for subsequently created veterans are for actual disability caused by service.

Where are your sources for this statement?

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Where are your sources for this statement?

Of which statement do you object?  The existence of veterans allowances not based on a sevice related disability?  Qualification from sailing over any measure of salt water?  That it was a mirror image of provincial welfare?  That some people showed disrespect to some recipients.

My source is knowing dozens of veterans and reading 50 years of Legion magazines.

Here are the guidlines which show most of it.  It is strictly income dependant, not based on any disability.  Note that War Veterans Allowances are not pensions received for a service related disability.  They are provided elsewhere.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/Services/benefits/vac1466e-guidelines.pdf

Every month in Legion Magazine for 50 years were requests for members of the soldiers unit to provide evidence that the unit sailed to an offshore island thereby qualifying, the assumpion being that with many ships being sunk in Canadian waters, it was a theatre of war.

As to disrespect, I can only look to personally hearing comments by veterans that revolved around the challenges to certain individuals in the area of ambition and alcohol, whether true or false.  War Veterans Allowances provided a very basic income and was a last resort mechanism so no soldier would have to be on welfare.  I am sure the vast majority of recipients had a non-service related disability that restricted income.(On further reading a requirement)


Sorry I missed the highlighting on "Theatre of war came to mean taking the ferry to Vancouver Island" but your question has been answered.  Catching subtle distinctions in shading is a thing of my youth and nobody under 50 will have a clue what I'm talking about.