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Toronto Mayor Rob Ford

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pbi said:
Not surprisingly, I disagree with you. I don't think that you can characterize a city as diverse and fragmented as Toronto as a "bastion" of anything. Although, we should recall that when a particular political faction can't seem to get traction somewhere, they are quick to condemn the place in question as a "bastion" of whatever it is they don't like. IMHO Chow never, ever, had a shot at Mayor under the current political structure of Toronto. She might have swung it in the pre-amalgamation days, but those days are long gone.

What Toronto desperately needed (and most egregiously did NOT have in Brother Bob) was a "Mayor of All The People". If you consider the entire Toronto voting list, The Bobster got in by a slim plurality: about 40% of the 40% of voters who actually bothered to cast a vote, or in other words about 20% of the list.  I would speculate that many of the people who voted for Ford were actually indulging in that ancient and honourable Canadian tradition: "voting against something". In this case, the "something" was the lacklustre Miller regime, which provided a great stock of ammunition for Ford Nation and all its populist pot-bangers, along with sane Torontonians who were just fed up with the way things were.

This time around, if I'm not mistaken  about 60% of the voting list actually voted. In my opinion, this makes the Ford defeat this time more significant than the Ford victory last time.

What TO has now, I think, is a man who, if he is careful, can be a "Mayor of All The People", or at least a lot more of the people. I would expect now to see a lot less high-school bully-boy behaviour and more of a steady hand on the tiller. God knows the city needs it, right now. The whole business of running these gigantic contraptions we call "cities" is not getting simpler and easier (or cheaper). There is at least a minimum intellectual level required for the job, and my impression is that Mayor Tory has it and much, much more.

I wish him luck.

As for the Fords...well--after all their squawking about democracy, they can now eat the results of democracy in action. Be careful what you wish for. Brother Bob is reduced once more to the place he came from, but after having revealed what a city with him at the helm would be like. As for Doug: well, let's see what he can do with the Ontario Tories (if, in fact, any human being can do anything with them).

One day the folks on the Right will realize that this isn't Alabama: we are much more comfortable with the good old Red Tories of the cut of Bill Davis (remember the Big Blue Machine?), than with disruptive demagogues who appeal to the lowest common denominators in their flock.

pbi - I think you are indulging in some wishful thinking.  Demagogues are always popular.  Bill Davis's Ontario, along with John Diefenbaker's Canada, is long gone.  Many of those new Canadians have grown up in demagogic countries and some of them long for the clarity associated with direction.  Democratic chaos is not understood - especially when you are not getting rich - which was the reason you left the Old Country in the first place.

 
I think Rob was really on to something with his Ford Fests.  They were part political rally, fun fair and revival meeting.

Something I recall Kreskin saying, "I could never make someone do something he didn't want to do. But it's different in a crowd."

Rob has been re-admitted to Mount Sinai and will start his third round of chemo-therapy on Monday. Politics aside, he's still the mayor and in our thoughts and prayers.




 
Kirkhill said:
pbi - I think you are indulging in some wishful thinking.  Demagogues are always popular.  Bill Davis's Ontario, along with John Diefenbaker's Canada, is long gone.  Many of those new Canadians have grown up in demagogic countries and some of them long for the clarity associated with direction.  Democratic chaos is not understood - especially when you are not getting rich - which was the reason you left the Old Country in the first place.

Yes-demagogues can indeed be popular. That is their nature, and what makes them dangerous, because they will almost always be shilling for some very distorted view of things, or focused on "single issue" fights.

I should state my biases up front, and say that in my opinion the best possible outcome for Canada in 2015 would be a Tory minority. A "perfect world" result for me (although, as you point out, probably quite counter-factual) would be a return to the "Red Toryism" that could appeal to a much wider swath of Canadians and avoid the US style of bi-polar dysfunction, in which political discourse is reduced to mouth foaming and ranting.

I've also read "The Big Shift", and I'm aware that the current brand of Toryism, both federally and provincially, has realized that there is fertile soil amongst some segments of new Canadians who hold social, cultural and frequently religious views which are much more conservative than those of mainstream Canadians.  As far as I can tell, these particular groups continue to represent only a minority of Canadians, although they are perhaps over-represented in the major urban centres.

Naturally, Tories seek to exploit these like-minded individuals to boost their share of hte ballot: I would not expect much different behaviour from any political party. Politicians in this country often seem, IMHO, far too fixated on their short term gains and the survival of their brands, than on a longer term view.

I also take note of your very accurate observation about "democratic chaos", which Churchill would probably have observed upon as being one of the messy but glorious aspects of our system. We absolutely do not want to pander to, or in any way exploit, the innate desires of people who yearn for "The Big Man" system. We know where that goes, and I think sometimes I see signs of a drift towards it.

I wonder (and worry) about the wisdom and long-term effect of encouraging and politically exploiting the meaner, nastier and more regressive aspects of certain cultural groups in our country. We might want to be careful about where we end up with that.
 
pbi said:
Yes-demagogues can indeed be popular. That is their nature, and what makes them dangerous, because they will almost always be shilling for some very distorted view of things, or focused on "single issue" fights.

I should state my biases up front, and say that in my opinion the best possible outcome for Canada in 2015 would be a Tory minority. A "perfect world" result for me (although, as you point out, probably quite counter-factual) would be a return to the "Red Toryism" that could appeal to a much wider swath of Canadians and avoid the US style of bi-polar dysfunction, in which political discourse is reduced to mouth foaming and ranting.

I've also read "The Big Shift", and I'm aware that the current brand of Toryism, both federally and provincially, has realized that there is fertile soil amongst some segments of new Canadians who hold social, cultural and frequently religious views which are much more conservative than those of mainstream Canadians.  As far as I can tell, these particular groups continue to represent only a minority of Canadians, although they are perhaps over-represented in the major urban centres.

Naturally, Tories seek to exploit these like-minded individuals to boost their share of hte ballot: I would not expect much different behaviour from any political party. Politicians in this country often seem, IMHO, far too fixated on their short term gains and the survival of their brands, than on a longer term view.

I also take note of your very accurate observation about "democratic chaos", which Churchill would probably have observed upon as being one of the messy but glorious aspects of our system. We absolutely do not want to pander to, or in any way exploit, the innate desires of people who yearn for "The Big Man" system. We know where that goes, and I think sometimes I see signs of a drift towards it.

I wonder (and worry) about the wisdom and long-term effect of encouraging and politically exploiting the meaner, nastier and more regressive aspects of certain cultural groups in our country. We might want to be careful about where we end up with that.


I think that a common oversimplification, especially popular in some segments of the commentariat.

There is, indeed, "fertile ground" out there for Conservatives:

    It is, as it always has been, among older voters, people of our ages who both a) vote in disproportionately large numbers, and b) hold some socio-economic views that
    coincide better with the CPC than with either the Liberals and NDP;

    It's in rural and small town Canada - and I'll describe Peterboroug, ON, for example, as being at the top end of "small town," but, of course, places like Shelburne, ON and Unity, SK are
    the classic small towns, and reliably Conservative, too; and

    It's also in the suburbs, around the big cities, some of which, but by no means all, have large immigrant populations, especially East and South Asians who, like senior citizens, share
    some of the views espoused by the CPC.

It's a large, diverse, and, broadly, representative slice of the country. Most Canadians do not fall into the Conservative pool of potential voters, but more Canadians are potential CPC voters than 'fit' into either the Liberal or NDP camps.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
...

It's a large, diverse, and, broadly, representative slice of the country. Most Canadians do not fall into the Conservative pool of potential voters, but more Canadians are potential CPC voters than 'fit' into either the Liberal or NDP camps.

And I think that a return to something more like the now much-derided, "obsolete" Red Toryism of the past could further broaden the slice. I think that what happened in the Toronto election is indicative.
 
pbi said:
And I think that a return to something more like the now much-derided, "obsolete" Red Toryism of the past could further broaden the slice. I think that what happened in the Toronto election is indicative.


There is still a Red Tory rump, Peter MacKay leads it. It, in fact, is 90% of the reason the CPC "broke through" in Ontario under Stephen Harper. Ontarians were, still are, suspicious of the old Parson Preston Manning led Reform model. For every Deborah Grey and Diane Ablonczy, each of whom could, easily have won any suburban Ontario riding, there was a Darrel Stinson and a perceived religious right caucus. But, even in Red Tory Ontario the CPC was able to elect religious conservatives - think Wladyslaw Lizon from Mississauga.

Jason Kenney "reached out," with incredible sensitivity and political skill, to the "ethinc vote," especially in suburban Toronto/South-Western Ontario and in the Lower Mainland of BC. He, and the PM, did so by listening, very, very carefully, to their concerns: hence the CPC's abortion policy. Although a handful of MP, including the above mentioned Mr Lizon, are ferociously (religiously) anti-abortion, the CPC understands that access to abortion is not an issue for East and South Asians; they think abortions are 'normal' and a woman's own business. But the CPC will not folow M. Trudeau's lead and impose that view on its members.

I remember the Red Tories - not always fondly, I thought Bill Davis, for example, was a weak and often misguided premier. He spent too much and pandered to faux liberal values. Give me Leslie Frost and John Robarts any time, both solidly Blue Tories: good managers and defenders of individual liberty who fought against Ottawa's centralizing nature.
 
The current CPC is sloppy, the writing of the Acts they create adhoc is terrible and we are living that current dream  :brickwall:

The way they treat the PS is no different than the way the Liberals treated the gun owners, they are so busy trying to change everything at once, no one bothers to actually consider the effect of those changes and then are surprised when things go off the rails. They also swallow their own propaganda to much. The only saving grace is the other side of the fence will be worse. I am hoping either for a CPC minority or a 1 vote majority, which will make them stop and think more.
 
I wish Doug luck in his future endeavors, but I don't care if he goes into out-of-town party politics or back to Chicago.

"Toronto's loss, Chicago's gain," Doug Ford says when asked about his plans for private life."
Elizabeth Church
Toronto City Hall Bureau Chief for The Globe and Mail 28 Oct 2014

Here in Toronto, Ford Nation ( and whoever ends up as their figurehead while Rob is on the canvass ) isn't going anywhere. The wards that voted for Doug lack quality access to our transit corridors.

They didn't vote for buses, or LRTs ( Sometimes incorrectly referred to as streetcars. As in "the St. Clair disaster", which it isn't. ) or Smart Track ( Doug calls it "Backtrack" ).

Rob and Doug promised Ford Nation "subways! subways! subways!". Just like the "elites" have.

Many are poor and live in priority neighbourhoods. They see public sector spending ( ie: "the gravy train" ) as lavish, and likely don't care about bike lanes.

They don't care that Rob is rich and less than perfect. He returns your calls, comes to the doors of TCHC units with his fridge magnets and gets potholes fixed. He is likely the most famous international celebrity many will ever get to take a selfie with.

Scandals and ineptitude cost Ford Nation much of the initial support of high and middle income voters, but it's core remains intact.

My personal ( based on living in, and working for, the city my entire life ) preference would be a return to our most senior political figure being elected by members of Council. The change to the system we have now was made by Queen's Park, and they are the ones who would have to reverse it. 

If interested in voter turnout and who votes in Toronto municipal elections...

Voter turnout:

•Toronto: 60 per cent

•Mississauga: 36 per cent

•Brampton: 36 per cent

•Vaughan: 30 per cent

•Oshawa: 26 per cent.

"Who Votes in Toronto Municipal Elections?"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/244003230/Who-Votes-in-Toronto-Municipal-Elections





















 
E.R. Campbell said:
The heaviest voter turnout was in the middle class, middle aged suburbs, Ford territory. The areas that voted for John Tory often showed the lowest voter turnout.

"Toronto's poorest neighbourhoods chose Doug Ford

Doug Ford's vote was highest in Toronto lowest-income wards where voter turn-out is the lowest. The opposite is true of John Tory's support."
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/10/28/torontos_poorest_neighbourhoods_chose_doug_ford.html

"Monday’s results mirror the United Way’s 2004 Poverty by Postal Code study..."

"Although voter turnout was up across the city, with initial reports of almost 61 per cent casting ballots, it was highest in the wealthy inner core that supported mayor-elect John Tory and lowest in the struggling suburban wards that favoured Doug Ford."



 
mariomike said:
"Toronto's poorest neighbourhoods chose Doug Ford

Doug Ford's vote was highest in Toronto lowest-income wards where voter turn-out is the lowest. The opposite is true of John Tory's support."
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/10/28/torontos_poorest_neighbourhoods_chose_doug_ford.html

"Monday’s results mirror the United Way’s 2004 Poverty by Postal Code study..."

This is interesting, because IMHO these people are the exact opposite of what I thought the Ford "base" consists of. I bet that many of the folks in "Ford Nation" would look on the residents of these poorer wards as "lazy welfare layabouts, gang-bangers and useless immigrants taking our jobs".
The lesson for Tory here is that he needs to come across as much less of an upper-middle class "toff" and start showing some active concern for these wards. In other words, be a true "Mayor of All The People". If he can't do it himself directly, he needs to use those of his people who can do it for him.
What TO certainly doesn't need is any more social wars. There is a much more existential fight ahead, IMHO, for Toronto and all big cities, and that is the fight to stay solvent, liveable and avoid the fate of Detroit. (OK...that last part was a bit over the top, but you know what I mean)
 
I just glanced at an article in this week's Economist describing English politician Nigel Farage and his ability to pull in both Tory and Labour supporters.  Generally, it seems, those supporters are of a certain age (mine?) and long for the days when they could have a stand up fight with out those silly buggers from across the water interfering.

Nigel Farage's persona comes across as what we used to call a Teddy Boy.  In the Elvis era of slick backed hair and leather jackets these guys wore three-quarter length Edwardian style coats, complete with velvet collars, in bold patterns.  Their look was generally accessorised with tight jeans, winkle-picker boots, chains and switch-blades.  Louts with flair.

Rob Ford could also be described as a lout with flair.

Which brings us back to demagoguery and the enduring charm of the "Bad Boy". 

Marion Barry and the Daley clan immediately spring to mind.

 
pbi said:
In other words, be a true "Mayor of All The People".

That would be nice, but I didn't see it under Lastman or Miller. And especially not in the 2010 and 2014 voting patterns with Rob and Doug. I would say our neighbourhoods have actually grown

further apart over the years.

There are 140 neighbourhoods officially recognized by the City of Toronto and upwards of 240 official and un-official neighbourhoods within the city's boundaries. This does not include the 13

Neighbourhood Improvement Areas (formerly called Priority Areas).

The boundaries have not changed since 1954.

"Rob Ford hints at Ford family candidacy in 2018 election"
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/news-video/video-rob-ford-hints-at-ford-family-candidacy-in-2018-election/article21347648/







 
Mariomike: Miller, I agree: he seemed to me to be a zero who was largely focused on Old TO, but I confess I didn't pay all that much attention to his reign. His biggest result was that he created the conditions for the Rise of The Fords.

Mel, on the other hand, I beg to differ with you. Granted, he often bordered a bit on the nutcase side of things, and he was originally a "suburban" guy (if you want to call the City of North York a "suburb"). But, that said, I never saw in him the sinister, bullying, oafish side that I saw far too often in the last Hizzoner. My impression is that he was not on a warpath against any part of the city, not exploiting the Old City against the boroughs. Mel was in no way a perfect Mayor (I saw him in operation up close and personal during the Great Snow Storm when I was the G3 of LFCA and we were working very closely with the brand new megaCity of Toronto.), but I don't put him in the same league as Brother Bob, at all.
 
pbi said:
Mariomike: Miller, I agree: he seemed to me to be a zero who was largely focused on Old TO, but I confess I didn't pay all that much attention to his reign. His biggest result was that he created the conditions for the Rise of The Fords.

Mel, on the other hand, I beg to differ with you. Granted, he often bordered a bit on the nutcase side of things, and he was originally a "suburban" guy (if you want to call the City of North York a "suburb"). But, that said, I never saw in him the sinister, bullying, oafish side that I saw far too often in the last Hizzoner. My impression is that he was not on a warpath against any part of the city, not exploiting the Old City against the boroughs. Mel was in no way a perfect Mayor (I saw him in operation up close and personal during the Great Snow Storm when I was the G3 of LFCA and we were working very closely with the brand new megaCity of Toronto.), but I don't put him in the same league as Brother Bob, at all.

Mayor Miller won an absolute majority in all but 2 of our 44 wards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_municipal_election,_2006#mediaviewer/File:Toronto_mayor_-_2006.PNG

He served two terms as mayor ( Rob only served one ), and did not seek a third. He has been very well employed since leaving politics.

Mayor Lastman said, “I’m not a genius, obviously, but he ( Rob Ford ) makes me look like one."

Rob didn't have to fight the "Jobs for Life" and "Sick Bank Gratuity" battles with Local 416 that Lastman and Miller did. 

I completely agree with your comparison of Mel and Rob Ford.

I was very grateful for the military support during that storm. 

My one and only concern with Mel was his handling of SARS.

Incidentally, PBI, this is Toronto's Emergency Plan dated Dec. 2013. It shows that Rob's powers had already been delegated to Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly:
http://www1.toronto.ca/City%20Of%20Toronto/Office%20of%20Emergency%20Management/Files/pdf/E/emergency_plan.pdf








 
mariomike said:
...I was very grateful for the military support during that storm. ...

You're welcome. It was quite an experience (and not all good, either). It was the initial and relatively small-scale military support to Toronto Fire and Toronto EMS in some downtown stations that actually got the whole ball rolling: it just grew from there until we had the Immediate Reaction Unit and a task force from 2 CER deployed from Petawawa, and several hundred reservists involved. I still have a picture somewhere of a Bison with EMS signs on it rolling down a Toronto street.
 
pbi said:
You're welcome. It was quite an experience (and not all good, either). It was the initial and relatively small-scale military support to Toronto Fire and Toronto EMS in some downtown stations that actually got the whole ball rolling: it just grew from there until we had the Immediate Reaction Unit and a task force from 2 CER deployed from Petawawa, and several hundred reservists involved.

That was about 15 years ago. The amount of development downtown since then has been phenomenal. There's severe traffic congestion at the best of times, so I wonder what the effect of a major snowstorm now would be? I've been retired for five and a half years, so I'll never have to worry about that again.  :)

Our ambulances do not have snow tires, and I think one of the problems every winter, and that one in particular, is that during a snowstorm crews should consider taking different routes, and park farther away from scenes and walk.

pbi said:
I still have a picture somewhere of a Bison with EMS signs on it rolling down a Toronto street.

We'll never see the EMS logo again in Toronto. It's been removed from everything. The station signs, fleet, uniforms, badges, ID and everything else have been re-branded, "Toronto Paramedic Service".

Below is what they now wear on their shoulders. It came into effect on 1 Oct 2014 under Mayor Ford.

Rob is still the mayor for one more month, even though council stripped him of his power a year ago. Since losing the mayoral election, Doug has expressed an interest in provincial politics, so it will be interesting to see how that works out for him. It would also be interesting to see after Mikey's victory in north Etobicoke, if older brother Randy will throw his hat in the ring. When asked on election night if he'd consider running for office himself, Randy said that he wouldn't rule it out.

The question now is which Ford will be in the 2018 mayoral election. Much will depend on the state of Rob's health in four years.

"Rob Ford vows to run for mayor again in 2018"
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/rob-ford-resilient-despite-brothers-defeat/article21344689/









 
Isn't that badge something like the old "winged wheel" of the old City of Toronto public ambulance service?

As for the political future of the Ford family: I guess we'll just have to see.
 
pbi said:
Isn't that badge something like the old "winged wheel" of the old City of Toronto public ambulance service?

No. Not at all. They intentionally obliterated it. They got rid of the winged-wheel in 1998 when amalgamation came. Erased all memory of it. Not a trace to be found. I received my gold 25-year watch  prior to the amalgamation, so it has the old winged-wheel. I must have received one of the last ones.

There was one rather touching moment though.  After Deputy Mayor Norm Kelly took over Rob's power last year, one of the first things he did was have Rob's fish tank removed and unveiled a giant portrait of Chairman Fred Gardiner in its place. The portrait had been in storage since the 1998 amalgamation. I had seen it many times prior to 1998.

Norm said, "It is my contention that basically the amalgamated City of Toronto is the heir of the metropolitan government of Toronto. Not the City of Toronto. The metropolitan government of Toronto was considered one of the most successful governments in Canada and yet to have no evidence that it once existed bothered me.”

I served under four Chairmen and two mayors. Gardiner was before my time, and Ford came after. But, I remember reading this about Fred Gardiner. He visited Robert Moses for several days in NYC shortly after taking over Metro:

"The thing that impressed me about Robert Moses was the first question he asked me was, 'What the hell are you going to do about that mess up there now that you're in charge of it?' I had to think fast, but I knew what to say. I said I was going to be like Stalin. I'd have a five or ten-year plan and I'd lay out exactly what I had and how I was going to spend it and I'd know exactly where the money was going.
His only comment was, 'Never mind those high-minded advisors. Keep your staff small. Don't let them boss you around. Hire them when you want them and fire them when you want. Make them work for you, and not the other way around.'
He didn't have to convince me. That was how I intended to proceed. I was going to run my own show. That's why they called me the bulldozer."



 
mariomike said:
Norm said, "It is my contention that basically the amalgamated City of Toronto is the heir of the metropolitan government of Toronto. Not the City of Toronto. The metropolitan government of Toronto was considered one of the most successful governments in Canada and yet to have no evidence that it once existed bothered me.”

And this is why I keep saying that what Toronto needs is a Mayor of All The People: as huge a challenge as that is.

mariomike said:
.
...His only comment was, 'Never mind those high-minded advisors. Keep your staff small. ..
If only the CAF could follow these words. A small, hard-working staff is almost always better than a huge blob of silo dwellers.
 
pbi said:
And this is why I keep saying that what Toronto needs is a Mayor of All The People: as huge a challenge as that is.

I think that is why Doug did not get in as mayor. Have to wait and see if he makes premier.

From Global News.

Ford Nation 2014:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1652571/ford-nation-2014-15-things-demographics-tell-us-about-toronto-voters/

"One major change since the 2010 election is income: Four years ago, there wasn’t a major correlation between income and Ford support. This year Ford voters were much more likely to have lower incomes than others."
 
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