Training of Infantry Officers

[JBC]

Looking for observations about the phase training programme, in particular Ph III. Its short falls, benefits, and how to get the most out of it. Secondarily, how infantry officers could be better prepared for real life service as a brand new platoon commander, leading experienced NCOs.

Cheers

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Seek out and ask for the advice, wisdom and experience of the Sr. NCO's you're leading..........A good Pl. WO will teach the Jr. Pl. Comd. how to do it right. Just because you seek the advice and guidance of your subordinates does not mean that you are not the one ultimately making the decisions. Privates and Corporals also often have a great deal of experience and should not be disregarded either.

A competent NCO would be remiss in his duties if he did not provide his superiors, in the proper manner, all of the information and advice based on his/her experience and analysis of the tactical situation. The person in command may not always choose to heed the advice or information given to them, but if it's there, the final decisions are often better informed.

my $.02

 

[kaspacanada]

Well so far as this pertains to ROTP's at Civvy Universities, I think some form of work with a reserve unit of their trade or as close to it as possible could provide SOME insight, and also some basic experiences as he/she progresses through the phases.  This could help better prepare young officers both in the trade, and also getting a better understanding of the qualities of reserve units (and sometimes inequalities).  If you're interested in that, there was a good article in the Canadian Military Journal Spring 2004, Vol.5, No.1 which presented one case about what to do with ROTP's at Civvy Universities.

As for the phases, well, I haven't made it there yet.  I've only finished IAP so far so that's where my insight into the phases pretty much stops.  (I'm sure my reserve QL3 infantry course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what I'll run into in phase 3)  I agree with what Hollywood Hitman wrote though.  There's a wealth of experience in the ranks and it would be foolish to simply dismiss it.  We are taught this as early as IAP, and I am sure it will be drilled into us infinitely in the future as we (hopefully) progress through the phases.

 

[s23256]

As far as phase 3 goes here are some of the pros/cons I observed

Pros:
you get a good deal of exposure to basic field ops including hasty attacks and patrolling
it tends to weed out quite a few people who don't really want to be in the infantry
you get to work with some excellent officers and NCOs who are instructing on the course

Cons:
a lot of the time you are so tired you aren't concentrating on learning but simply on going through the motions
without MILES or some other equivalent system a lot of the training is pretty unrealistic
there's nothing as annoying as walking through the woods in the dark and the rain for 4 hours knowing that the patrol you are on is allready a fail due to poor orders, planning, etc.

 

[CivU]

As far as Phase III goes, what do you think the neccessary dynamics are of the people who ultimately pass and those who a fail out of the course (excluding injury)?

 

[bobbyf]

i'm not in the infantry, but based on the stories from guys i've spent time with in g'town, this course is THE officer bag-drag!!

 

[s23256]

I would say that the most important characteristic for most successful candidates is the ability to work effectively in a team.  This means that you are willing to put out the effort to support your mates when they are in the breach despite additional hardship for yourself.  People with this trait can expect the rest of the platoon to work for them when their turn comes.  If someone develops the impression that they are only interested in their own problems they will find it far more difficult to get a good performance from their troops when they are up.  Furthermore it is important to keep a sense of humour.  If you can't laugh about some of the ridiculous situations you will find yourself in then you are going to turn into a ball of stress pretty quickly and end up spinning out of control on your taskings.  Also, it is important to remain as positive as possible.  There will inevitably be moments which suck but if you push through them and maintain a decent attitude it goes a long way.  Finally it is very important to be able to remain calm under pressure it is much better to suck back for a few seconds and develop a decent plan than to go rushing about the second something happens and get wrapped around the axle.  Obviously there are occasions when there is no time for planning, at these moments it is the individual who can make a good snap judgement of the situation and act quickly who will be most successful.  However these moments should be relatively rare because you should be thinking ahead about as many contingencies as possible.

 

[JBC]

It sounds like great advice so far from everyone, right from comments on Ph III to working well with your NCOs once you are posted to BN. Keep 'em coming fellas

 

[SeanNewman]

Training:

Phase 3: How much can your body take?

Pros:
-You get your first look at platoon weapons.
-You get the rush of command if all goes well.

Cons:
-Unless you take the Pathfinder course (which I have not), it is the hardest three months your body will ever endure.
-Say "goodbye" to anything resembling sleep Mon-Fri every week.

Phase 4: How much can your mind take?

Pros:
-The LAV3 on the stab run live range "guns-a-blazin" is a high like no other.
-You'll get more sleep than Ph3, and the LAVs have heat/AC.

Cons:
-Your brain has to plan things covering ground at 60-100 km/h, not 5 km/h.
-You'll think your work day is done, then you get to re-do an FFQ range trace six times because you screw up one arc of fire, or you smudge it, etc...

 

[Gill557]

Is there any insite for Phase II.  It's the first step, and my next stop

 

[s23256]

The commandant of the infantry school briefed us recently on changes to the CAP (phII) course.  As with the previous course you will lead section attacks and 4-man recce patrols although I believe that now you are only required to pass one of the two.  This is to make time to include a broader spectrum of operations which better reflect current ops.  Therefore you may alse be required to lead tasks such as convoy escorts, force protection, and interaction with civilians and the media.  There will also be a short introduction to OBUA (operations in built up areas).  As far as difficulty goes I wouldn't expect it to be much different from previous years which means that most people will pass as long as they show a reasonable level of competence.

 

[Infanteer101]

I just recently got the chance to speak with some pers who did their CAP in winter 2004-2005 and some that are currently doing the new CAP this spring 2005. The winter one had a 60% failure rate and proved formidable even to the folks who had some time in in the combat arms, where-as the spring one so far has been considerably better and failure rate so far has been 30% and under in 3 platoons, mostly due to injuries and a handful of failures in Mod 5 (Patrolling/Section Attacks). Both courses have their perks (extra training) and fuses (needless torture), it is how you choose your poison as I would say if you have a choice that is(choose to duke out the heat or cold). In the winter you get introduced to the principles of Arctic Warfare (which is neat and lasting about a week) and in the summer you are exposed to warm weather and longer daylight hours (which may or maynot result in shit-storms depending on how well a certain platoon is progressing). They have added some FIBUA (or OBUA) training (lasting 1 week) to the old CAP courses involving Vital Point Security, Convoy Escorts (which I personally think will be fun as known from previous exercises). The course is also now Modulized so if you pass a Mod you don't have to repeat it. There is a guy I know who had 44 out of the 56 days (estimate) in training and got injured in Patrolling in Mod 5 and so he only needs to repeat the last 10 days of training which have to do with that Mod. Appearing for the course physically fit and mentally prepared goes a long long way, as is with all combat arms courses. For people who think that they are firing off Karl-Gs and riding in LAVs on that course, keep dreaming as such privileges are only available to folks doing Infantry/Armour Phase III and IV. I am going to be heading there either Feb or May after recovering from knee surgery and can already hardly wait! 

 

[Garett]

Mods are the Army's " Wave of the future", but based on the courses I've run this has created a system with even more gaps in it.  We've even gotten to the point in the NCM trg system where troops are being RTU'd and only going back to complete individual POs.  Unfortunately we need troops so it is a necessary evil.

 

[ProPatria05]

With respect to the 60% failure rate....

I did CAP last summer (04), and I know people who were on both the fall '04 serial and the winter '05 serial. A couple of guys I know got unlucky injuries in the fall, and so experienced both the fall and winter serial (there were wholesale changes to the course for Winter '05).

From talking to these individuals, CAP has gotten somewhat easier, not harder. Apparently on the winter serial, there wasn't a night where they didn't get at least 3 hours of sleep. This is a far cry from what I experienced last summer (although it paled in comparison to phase 3), and what those who I know experienced in the fall. Yes, I realize I sound like one of "those guys" who always thinks he had it harder, but like I said, I am basing this on what I have heard from actual people I know who did these serials.

I don't see it as an issue of the course getting harder, but of the quality of some (not all) of the candidates getting lower. We are attracting the wrong type of people in too many cases, using the wrong type of advertising/incentive to get people to join. I have been saying this for a long time. What do you expect to get, when you portray the CF as a smiley, happy place where you get to play on computers (reference most of the ads you see on TV)? Or offer $40,000 signing bonuses for certain trades? This attracts a certain type of individual, who is given a false image of what life in the CF (especially the Army) is like. They are not joining because they have a fire in their belly, they are joining for (a) the cash and (b) a false image.

When do we start appealing to those who want to join an organization that has a tough, rugged, 'elite' image? Where are the images of soldiers slogging in the mud? Dirty, tired, cold? Screaming as they roll over an objective either dismounted or in LAVs? Where are the weapons in all these ads? I hate to say it, but you watch US recruiting ads, and it gets your heart pounding. We are missing out on those young people who want to join a 'rough and tumble', 'hardcore' (sorry for the terms) organization, but they are presented with a soft and fuzzy image that turns them off. Instead we get what we get, and end up with 60% failure rates on CAP.

Just my two cents....take it for what it's worth.