"Training to the test?" (split fm Res Hand to hand)

[krimynal]

I don't know how the Reg force is.  But as I saw during my BMQ + DQ + DP1 , they basically give you an answer written on a paper sheet , tell you the copy that on the test , then if you somehow didn't do it properly , they give you back a new test, give you 20 minutes to redo and act like if nothing ever happened.

I somehow hope this is not the regular stuff every reserve unit are dealing with.  Sadly I kind of felt somewhat ashamed and I saw people making it through BMQ + DQ + DP1 that shouldn't even think of joining in the first place.  But hey who am I right ?

 

[RedcapCrusader]

I don't know how the Reg force is.  But as I saw during my BMQ + DQ + DP1 , they basically give you an answer written on a paper sheet , tell you the copy that on the test , then if you somehow didn't do it properly , they give you back a new test, give you 20 minutes to redo and act like if nothing ever happened.

I somehow hope this is not the regular stuff every reserve unit are dealing with.  Sadly I kind of felt somewhat ashamed and I saw people making it through BMQ + DQ + DP1 that shouldn't even think of joining in the first place.  But hey who am I right ?

What?

Also, I doubt it this.

 

[krimynal]

we had different test in our BMQ , weapon handling , drills , etc. etc. etc.

let's say the Weapon Handling.  20 minutes before the exam, 1 staff member would gather all of us in a room, Hold the test + answers in his hand , and go through all of them 1 by 1.  Giving away the answers. As soon as he was done , had a 5 minute break , comeback in the room and you do the same test. 

If ever someone failed it.  They wouldn't even put it in the file, just give him 1 night to "Study" , did a "question period" with him alone ( basically doing the same thing I just said ) then he would do it again and pass.

 

[Jarnhamar]

we had different test in our BMQ , weapon handling , drills , etc. etc. etc.

let's say the Weapon Handling.  20 minutes before the exam, 1 staff member would gather all of us in a room, Hold the test + answers in his hand , and go through all of them 1 by 1.  Giving away the answers. As soon as he was done , had a 5 minute break , comeback in the room and you do the same test. 

If ever someone failed it.  They wouldn't even put it in the file, just give him 1 night to "Study" , did a "question period" with him alone ( basically doing the same thing I just said ) then he would do it again and pass.

So you're saying you will spend the rest of your military career never really knowing whether or not you deserved to pass?

Heavy.

 

[krimynal]

I guess that's a way to put it.  I do believe I have sometype of basic knowledge but never know I might be totally wrong.

What my point was, I understand the need to not loose to much people on a class.  The need to keep the recruits up and make them stay in the army for the long run.  To what cost?

When you are in a combat arms trade, I would expect people to be somehow switched on because you are dealing with live fire and live explosive.  Yet I saw people who I wouldn't even trust them using a lighter to light a smoke without setting the whole camp on fire. 

Remember this is my personal opinion / situation.  Like I said it might be only affecting my unit.

 

[NSDreamer]

we had different test in our BMQ , weapon handling , drills , etc. etc. etc.

let's say the Weapon Handling.  20 minutes before the exam, 1 staff member would gather all of us in a room, Hold the test + answers in his hand , and go through all of them 1 by 1.  Giving away the answers. As soon as he was done , had a 5 minute break , comeback in the room and you do the same test. 

If ever someone failed it.  They wouldn't even put it in the file, just give him 1 night to "Study" , did a "question period" with him alone ( basically doing the same thing I just said ) then he would do it again and pass.

:bullshit:

If I was your course officer, those MCpls and Sgts would swing. There's ways to give subtle hints, yes, but showing answer sheets?  This is by no means the standard. Frig set the damn standard.

 

[krimynal]

:bullshit:

If I was your course officer, those MCpls and Sgts would swing. There's ways to give subtle hints, yes, but showing answer sheets?  This is by no means the standard. Frig set the damn standard.

exact reason why I said I somehow felt ashamed of this.  I mean I always held the forces to a high standard ( maybe foolishly ).  This is one of the main reason why I applied for a CT as soon as I could ( straight out of DP1 ).  I felt like this was really not what I was looking for out of the army.  I expected challenges, I met some physically but this somehow set me off a lot !

 

[Jarnhamar]

When you are in a combat arms trade, I would expect people to be somehow switched on because you are dealing with live fire and live explosive.  Yet I saw people who I wouldn't even trust them using a lighter to light a smoke without setting the whole camp on fire. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

:bullshit:

If I was your course officer, those MCpls and Sgts would swing. There's ways to give subtle hints, yes, but showing answer sheets?  This is by no means the standard. Frig set the damn standard.

How do you expect recruits to know what the right answer is if you don't tell them what the right answer is?

 

[krimynal]

How do you expect recruits to know what the right answer is if you don't tell them what the right answer is?

the thing is , we had previous classes on the whole thing.  Then the day of the exam, we had a "revision period" which is the whole thing I'm referring to.  Then we did the test.

It's not like if we never spoke of those things before.  People weren't even bothering to study or anything since we knew the day of the exam they would go through the whole thing giving us the answers ....

 

[NSDreamer]

How do you expect recruits to know what the right answer is if you don't tell them what the right answer is?

I expect them to pay attention during the training. For instructors to pay attention to students and identify which ones are not paying attention and make them do so to the best of their abilities. For those that refuse to learn? I expect them to fail. Following that I expect them to be recoursed, have been woken up and try again, and if they fail again? Not worth the crown's dollar.

 

[Jarnhamar]

That makes sense.

 

[krimynal]

I expect them to pay attention during the training. For instructors to pay attention to students and identify which ones are not paying attention and make them do so to the best of their abilities. For those that refuse to learn? I expect them to fail. Following that I expect them to be recoursed, have been woken up and try again, and if they fail again? Not worth the crown's dollar.

to be honest that's what I was expecting also .... seems like it's not something that happened in my case .... neither on my BMQ / SQ / DP1 ...
does it have something to do with the classes being shortened ? ( usually we had 1 month SQ , 1 month DP1 ) now we only had 2 weeks for each.  Maybe so, but even then, it is still not normal to "Make sure people pass" because "we don't have as much time".

 

[NSDreamer]

to be honest that's what I was expecting also .... seems like it's not something that happened in my case .... neither on my BMQ / SQ / DP1 ...
does it have something to do with the classes being shortened ? ( usually we had 1 month SQ , 1 month DP1 ) now we only had 2 weeks for each.  Maybe so, but even then, it is still not normal to "Make sure people pass" because "we don't have as much time".

I don't understand it, I won't understand it. If we lower the training bar, and still need the same results, we will not get the training time we NEED unless we fail people as they should be failed and the higher ups see OH SHIT this doesn't work.

 

[krimynal]

yeah that was how I saw that also ... usually if you need to give the training in 2 weeks other than the usual months.  Shouldn't it be harder and simply faster ? 

Now on my SQ they haven't qualified me on grenade / Carlo / m72 / c6 .... the only thing I saw was C9 and radio .... The point was that our units were supposed to train us on that.  Once we got to our units , they told us we should of been trained on our SQ.  So we had a 40 minutes training on all of them combined , made us do a small quiz , and told us we were now qualified.

I understand the principle with the budget and everything around it..... but this feels completely wrong to me !

 

[Teager]

yeah that was how I saw that also ... usually if you need to give the training in 2 weeks other than the usual months.  Shouldn't it be harder and simply faster ? 

Now on my SQ they haven't qualified me on grenade / Carlo / m72 / c6 .... the only thing I saw was C9 and radio .... The point was that our units were supposed to train us on that.  Once we got to our units , they told us we should of been trained on our SQ.  So we had a 40 minutes training on all of them combined , made us do a small quiz , and told us we were now qualified.

I understand the principle with the budget and everything around it..... but this feels completely wrong to me !

I know there is a thread discussing the training that has been cut out of BMQ-L (SQ). The training you did not get is what was mentioned as cut out of the course.

 

[krimynal]

yeah I know that , and I get the reason behind it , my point is more about , why is it "easier" to become a member , if the course is "smaller" in length ???

Even if they remove some stuff out of it ( Because they don't have as much time ).  The course should actually be harder because like I said they don't have as much time.  Anyways I don't want to start a whole vendetta against the reserve. 

I was just very very surprised on how things where on the reserve side of things..... When I first joined the army ( in 2005 - 2006 ) I dropped in my BMQ because I wasn't cut out for it back then.  Never , ever , ever , ever did it felt as easy as the one I just did.  Back then 2-3 days in if someone made a mistake they were already yelling and making us do pushups and everything ( which is the right thing to do ! )

now on the one I did recently, things were so easy ...... and honestly it didn't felt right ....

 

[ZacheryK]

:bullshit:

If I was your course officer, those MCpls and Sgts would swing. There's ways to give subtle hints, yes, but showing answer sheets?  This is by no means the standard. Frig set the damn standard.

Unfortunately the same thing happened in my BMQ and all through my trades training. We had a kid load his magazine upside down repeatedly, but somehow passed his weapons handling test. Same kid on our infantry course failed the BFT, withdraw from the defensive, and was kicked off the range while doing jungle lanes. Somehow he was formed up with us on graduation day. I still cringe whenever I see him walking around wearing his unit cap badge.

Theres members on this forum that have had longer coffee breaks than my accumuliatve career in the Army. That said, I've definitely noticed that all I've been exposed to is a no fail army.

 

[krimynal]

we had a kid on our DP1 , it was his 5Th attempt at the DP1 ..... not 2ND .... 5Th .... Don't get me wrong , things can happen in you can fail , or get hurt , but 5Th time back in.... sometimes as a unit , you have to be able to tell someone that he might just not be cut up for it !

And even if it was is 5Th try .... he was still completely clueless ... didn't seem to know the difference between a C7 and a C3 ... Even the staff were always picking on him because they thought it was just dumb to have him in back again ....

 

[NSDreamer]

we had a kid on our DP1 , it was his 5Th attempt at the DP1 ..... not 2ND .... 5Th .... Don't get me wrong , things can happen in you can fail , or get hurt , but 5Th time back in.... sometimes as a unit , you have to be able to tell someone that he might just not be cut up for it !

And even if it was is 5Th try .... he was still completely clueless ... didn't seem to know the difference between a C7 and a C3 ... Even the staff were always picking on him because they thought it was just dumb to have him in back again ....

Sounds stupid...to be fair though, I have no idea what a C3 is and have never seen one...that I'm aware of.

I will state that I just redid my range quals, and over 50% of the people there were identified as having failed the range. It was good, and somewhat frightening to see.