Transgender in the CF (merged)

[serenamorrow]

Estrogen meds are used to treat menopause, and testosterone meds for andropause. Also used to treat hormonal imbalances, like if a woman is not producing enough estrogen naturally yet they do testosterone. Relatively more common than one would think, which the Olympics and other sport organizations have discovered.

Any usage of any medication that is not prescribed for a valid medical reason would be illegal and against CF drug policy I would think, hence cannot use hormones for performance.

The Doctor in the article would only handle hormones, and possibly mentoring/overseeing individual transitions. They would not be able to provide psych assessments or GRS surgery, so their definition of 'transitioned' is suspect. The only place you can get it done in Canada is Montreal, and they require letters from two psychologists/therapists, GP, and endocrinologist. A trans applicant having had surgery suggests they went through all these steps, and CF does not have to. Same for legal status change, as most if not all provinces require proof of surgery for that to be done. So for CF purposes, "transitioned' is completing surgery and legal status change.

At this point, CF would have experience with existing trans members, over a hundred last I heard, in the last few decades. They should have some accumulated institutional knowledge for a transgender enrollment considerations. Base on this thread alone, that individual in the article has not been the only trans applicant that the CF handled. Did any of them completed enrollment, and recruited?

Another question, does the new trans policy from last year or so posted/linked anywhere? Does it cover enrollment?

 

[dimsum]

Aviators.

But what happens if they want to get promoted to Corporal? 

Back on topic - the last 2 paragraphs suggest that the Dr thinks this person would not be able to stop taking meds?  If so, doesn't that then preclude someone from joining?

Massarella says it would be impossible for McArthur to go without it.

"I've had patients who have had life threatening blood clots on estrogen who have refused to stop taking estrogen," she said. "Most transgender people will tell you they'd rather be dead than not take their hormones.

"To me, it's really a matter of life and death, in a sense, taking that medication."

 

[Jarnhamar]

I doubt getting old is a reason to go on hormone therapy...but you already knew that I'm sure.  :

I didn't know that but my logical brain tells me I'm an investment to the CAF and it would be economical to keep me as strong and fit as long as possible to get their monies worth. Ah well



[quote author=Dimsum]

Back on topic - the last 2 paragraphs suggest that the Dr thinks this person would not be able to stop taking meds?  If so, doesn't that then preclude someone from joining?
[/quote]

My read of it is that the person would choose to not stop taking them.  Not that they medically couldn't.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=serenamorrowind] A trans applicant having had surgery suggests they went through all these steps, and CF does not have to. Same for legal status change, as most if not all provinces require proof of surgery for that to be done. So for CF purposes, "transitioned' is completing surgery and legal status change.


[/quote]

I was under the impression that the majority of trans members actually never end up getting the surgery and whether or not they're considered transitioned isn't dependent on a completed surgery.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I didn't know that but my logical brain tells me I'm an investment to the CAF and it would be economical to keep me as strong and fit as long as possible to get their monies worth. Ah well

We stopped doing that when we shut down the Weapon X and Sentinel programs.



My read of it is that the person would choose to not stop taking them.  Not that they medically couldn't.

 

[serenamorrow]

Back on topic - the last 2 paragraphs suggest that the Dr thinks this person would not be able to stop taking meds?  If so, doesn't that then preclude someone from joining?

No human being can function in the long term without hormones. A body need a certain amount of either estrogen or testosterone. A trans person who has had a form of genital surgery would require taking in hormone medication for the rest of their life.

My read of it is that the person would choose to not stop taking them.  Not that they medically couldn't.

A sentiment most if not all trans people taking hormones has, whether or not they had surgery. If one has not had a form of genital surgery, technically can stop taking hormones and the body takes over, but the mental side of things go back to worse, in turn their gender dysphoria left untreated.

I was under the impression that the majority of trans members actually never end up getting the surgery and whether or not they're considered transitioned isn't dependent on a completed surgery.

Definition of transition has been expanded over the years, as not all trans people seek surgery or can get it for some medical reason, yet still 'transition' socially and possibly legally too without it.

I am only familiar with some of the more high profile and first out trans CF members, and they all had surgery, so do not know the rest of the few hundred currently in CF. Either or, they are already in the CF when they transitioned.  Trans applicants is a different story.

Likely be easier to know if we had the written CF trans policy, the one from 2012 and or the updated one from last year. Been unable to find it online, just that it exist. Does it also have guidelines and information for applicants?

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Unless our new feminist military caves to public image and changes the rules.

Feminist military? Care to expand on that comment?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

"we need 25% of the CAF to be female or it won't be operationally effective"  Not the exact words, but it was stated in late 2017 or early 2018 by a LGen.

"we are going to Mali and one of the big focuses is female peacekeepers"  [never mind the fact there is no peace to keep there at this point]

Most of the CAF Operations posts and associated pictures that show up in my newsfeed are females.  RCAF stories about female Majors deploying as a Gender Analyst Officer or whatever it's called. 

Does the list need to continue?  I've got no problem with females in the military, never have.  I have lots of problems when one group is spotlighted, call it what you want, because that can start an 'us' and 'them' mentality and that erodes teams.  I care about strong teams in the military, not anything politically correct, or pushing some political agenda.  Because when the shit hits the fan, I just want the best PERSON beside me, and I don't care if that is a female, male, if they are purple or pray to the Wood God Badunkda-dunk. 

So, for me, I kind of see where he is coming from...

 

[mariomike]

I can't speak for anyone, but I read this,

QUOTE

February 9, 2018

Global News

Canada is taking a ‘feminist approach’ to the military, defence minister says
https://globalnews.ca/news/4017318/harjit-sajjan-military-feminist/

END QUOTE

 

[BeyondTheNow]

I interpreted that comment as a personal view that CAF is feminist (thus, negative connotation) as oppose to a reiteration of comments made by various sources in the media.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I interpreted that comment as a personal view that CAF is feminist (thus, negative connotation) as oppose to a reiteration of comments made by various sources in the media.

So you think "feminist" is a negative connotation? Me too now that you mention it.

But in this case I'm referring to the defense minister saying Canada is taking a ‘feminist approach’ to the military.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

So you think "feminist" is a negative connotation? Me too now that you mention it.

But in this case I'm referring to the defense minister saying Canada is taking a ‘feminist approach’ to the military.

As I said, I interpreted it as the word “feminist” being used as something negative. (People often throw “feminist” out as an insult.) I did not draw the conclusion that you were using the term in echoing a statement made by the defence minister, as there was no direct correlation (or I missed it) to referencing his words to the quoted comment by the other poster.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Right.

Well it's safe to assume anytime I use "feminist"  it's negative,  if that clears things up  ;D

But in the example above my ire was aimed more towards the military being dragged into identity politics, primarily.

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Right.

Well it's safe to assume anytime I use "feminist"  it's negative,  if that clears things up  ;D

But in the example above my ire was aimed more towards the military being dragged into identity politics, primarily.

Excellent.

Yes, I’ve got that. Ire away...

 

[serenamorrow]

Here is a follow up article about the particular case:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/canadian-military-transgender-1.4587325

Whoever reviewed the medical case made a mistake, making the same assumption many have in this thread along with lack of experience with trans individuals, and they had no guidelines at medical enrollment to fall back on. In turn, mentioning they will place a failsafe measure and past along trans applicant cases and other complex medical cases to senior medical office, which I am guessing the one in Ottawa.

Good to see they are on the ball and handled it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's certainly good for trans people wanting to join.  I hope she goes through with joining (and finds a deeper reason to serve).

 

[daftandbarmy]

But in the example above my ire was aimed more towards the military being dragged into identity politics, primarily.

You don't get we, the 'kilt clad', much, do you?   iper:

 

[Ethan18]

I'm leaving for BMOQ in July. I was wondering that if I'm enrolled as female but I usually wear masculine clothing and would rather wear masculine clothing, would I be able to wear the male DEUs? I know there's not much difference (really just the button closing tbh) but do I need to acquire special permission? Or would I just specify that I would like to wear the male DEUs to the supply staff on course? Thanks for any advice

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's a really good question Ethan. There is a rumor we're supposed to be getting gender neutral grooming standards this summer, I'm not sure if that includes dress policy too.

You might run into some issues with Logistik Unicorps because they will send you the female/male deus according to the gender they have on file for you, though if you called them you might be able to get them to send you a special order.

You might similarly run into the same issue with your chain of command where you'll be told to wear the deus according to the gender you have on file. On the other hand they might not care at all. Your best bet might be submitting a memo requesting permission. Expect  some people to want you to wear whatever according to the gender on your ID. But other people won't care or will be afraid to say no.

You'll probably get more traction if you're identifying as a male and not just because you "want it". Don't get caught bullshitting.

I think I still have a memo saved from helping someone else with something like this I can send you if I find it (I'm not sure what the end result was).

 

[cld617]

And you will only be prescribed what correlates to your results. We have had a few members at our clinic want more because when they get their shots they feel good, like superman. So more is better in their minds.

So they're coming to the MIR for their shots? This is why people on TRT should be administering their own shots, it allows for a more frequent dose and allows for more stability in how a person feels. TRT should not come with highs (superman) and lows.