Trudeau Wants Digital ID from Provinces in Exchange for Health Funds

[Brad Sallows]

I don't get the contradiction of opinion among people on this site sometimes. You, among others, have expressed a (I would say healthy) distrust of politicians, yet here you are saying "no, let's just trust them to do the right thing with our money."

Everyone everywhere in every province is saying that our healthcare systems need help. The Feds are offering some money to try and help, and just like you (us, really), the feds aren't wholly trusting of the people who are going to spend our money (in this case, the provs), so they are trying to make sure that the health care money they are giving them is actually being spent on health care.

I thought that's what people in general (and people on this site in particular) wanted; accountability for how the gov. spends our money.

As I wrote, the CHA already puts requirements in place. The federal government ought to keep up its share of contributions instead of letting them slowly shrink and then treating demands to hold up its end as some kind of opportunity to negotiate additional requirements. It's pure fuckery to pretend that a party that fails to uphold its end should be entitled to reopen bargaining as a reward for its failures.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

22/78 now…50/50 seems like half a century ago. It’s a bully’s way that makes it seem like they’re doing everyone else a favour.

How about the PM direct CRA not to ignor the $15B+ in ‘not worth the effort to recover’ COVID over-payments with all those thousands and thousands of additional public servants CRA is getting from the PM?

Boiled down to it's simplist common denominator, your answer is that it's the trudeau government. A government with an agenda to change our way of life, into some psuedo utopian communist/ facist society. A PM that has little, if any, care for the citizens of Canada. His whole term has been a series of faux pas, intentional disruption, financial destruction and draconian Charter infractions. Instead of co-operating with allies, he pisses them off. Instead of bringing investment and profit to our country, he actively campaigns against growth to appease his false gods of climate. A la LNG for Europe and Japan. Instead of unity, he has driven wedge upon wedge of divisiveness between group after group. He's not there to help us, he's there to destroy us. A psychopathic liar and skilled and practiced narcissist who cares little for anyone outside himself.

 

[Lumber]

Boiled down to it's simplist common denominator, your answer is that it's the trudeau government. A government with an agenda to change our way of life, into some psuedo utopian communist/ facist society. A PM that has little, if any, care for the citizens of Canada. His whole term has been a series of faux pas, intentional disruption, financial destruction and draconian Charter infractions. Instead of co-operating with allies, he pisses them off. Instead of bringing investment and profit to our country, he actively campaigns against growth to appease his false gods of climate. A la LNG for Europe and Japan. Instead of unity, he has driven wedge upon wedge of divisiveness between group after group. He's not there to help us, he's there to destroy us. A psychopathic liar and skilled and practiced narcissist who cares little for anyone outside himself.

I never thought I'd say this, but I think I agree with @Fishbone Jones. The only difference is I think he's doing all this out of an extemely arrogant but benevolent viewpoint in that I think he actually wants to creat a better society for Canadians, not because he wants to slowly and clandestinely usurp power with the a ultimate goal of becoming an all powerful dictator. He just thinks those opposed to him are idiots and is ramming his position down their throats.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I don’t like the “leave the tax rate up to the provinces” part.

Not taxes, but did you see the post of the couple who just moved to NS from BC showing their first power bill from NS power ? Lol

This. Small provinces like PEI would be left far behind others like Ontario and Alberta.

I have no issues with that. Right now we allow people to be stagnant. We should be encouraging people to move to where the opportunity is, not sit and wallow in nostalgia.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Not taxes, but did you see the post of the couple who just moved to NS from BC showing their first power bill from NS power ? Lol

No. Links? It might make my blood pressure jump though. Another 14% over 2 years…fml.

I have no issues with that. Right now we allow people to be stagnant. We should be encouraging people to move to where the opportunity is, not sit and wallow in nostalgia.

Well…my mom and dad are retired there; dad served 29 years, a lot of it at CFB Summerside so he’s paid his share. 2 of my sisters are there and contributing since the 80s as tax payers. Family that have sizeable farming operations etc. I wouldn’t want my parents to have even lower healthcare standards than they do now because they chose to retire there. That’s the lens I was looking thru.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No. Links? It might make my blood pressure jump though. Another 14% over 2 years…fml.



Well…my mom and dad are retired there; dad served 29 years, a lot of it at CFB Summerside so he’s paid his share. 2 of my sisters are there and contributing since the 80s as tax payers. Family that have sizeable farming operations etc. I wouldn’t want my parents to have even lower healthcare standards than they do now because they chose to retire there. That’s the lens I was looking thru.

It's. 700$ power bill. They were shocked as they claimed they paid around 50$ in BC. Was on FB. I will see if I can find it.

And that's fair I get that. One point, there is no such thing as a fair share. You contribute to until you die. That's life since WW1.

My point is we should be encouraging people to move to where the opportunity is, not let them stay stagnate is another place. You know as well as I do, the whole the Maritimes and NFLD is full of working age people that are allowed exist off of others folks dimes because anything on the west of the Canso Causeway sacres the bejesus out of them, as an example. I know people like this in 36 CBG, they won't take a contract unless it's at their Armouries.

If we want improvement and growth, encouraging stagnation is not going to foster that.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

Digital ID?

I thought it was already here without Government input.

Almost everyone here has some sort of smart device and it tracks you better than anything the Government could come up with.


One day a week , I pick up my kids at the ex's home. My phone beeps to let me know what kind of commute I have to her house and estimated time of travel and arrival. My phone beeps every morning with estimated travel time to work, ( I beat it this morning by 10 minutes)
Google even knows when I shop at Costco. It even knows the detour I make to drop my kids at school on the days I have them.

Between smart devices, credit/debit cards, points cards, loyalty cards we are well tracked. Maybe too well tracked.

Enhanced drivers licenses with RF chips can be read at the border crossings already. At one time there was talk about making the photo health card and drivers licenses in Ontario the same card, but think privacy issues came up.

Digital Passport is most likely coming in the next few years, but I am just guessing that our smart devices are not secure enough to allow it just yet. Too many phones are lost or stolen or flushed down toilets etc, to have that key information on it.

If you look at this way, every time we purchase something at a certain large box store. It works like this
1) you buy the product at the checkout,
2) report of sale is sent to store manager in seconds for inventory control
3) inventory control is already checking in store supply to see if resupply of product is required
4) district warehouse gets a message to add resupply to next order
5) Order is ready and placed in the cue for the next store delivery
6) Head office knows that you purchased it and they have 30, 60, 90 or 120 days depending on supplier to pay for that purchased item
This all happens with 45 minutes of your purchase. The store knows how you paid, cash, debit, credit or gift card.

This is how well the government could track us if needed. If not better.

Phones now have out finger prints scanned, eye scans to keep people out of our phones and other devices.

Biggest issues I see for digital ID is older generation that does not trust computers or government or those who live off radar and ghost the world. They will have to be convinced this is a good thing. Other issue will be rural areas where the internet and digital world does not work due to poor reception or too far off the map to get signal. Other issue what is the government going to use the tracking information for and how long will they store it and who can access it, will a warrant or court order be required to gain access to avoid abuse of power and invasion of privacy?

 

[daftandbarmy]

I have no issues with that. Right now we allow people to be stagnant. We should be encouraging people to move to where the opportunity is, not sit and wallow in nostalgia.

You've just nicely described at least 40% of the human race.

It's a demographic reality that sustains big retailers, like Costco and Walmart, amongst other key features of our daily lives, so it's an important number

Who Moves? Who Stays Put? Where’s Home?

Most Americans have moved to a new community at least once in their lives, although a notable number — nearly four-in-ten — have never left the place in which they were born.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Halifax Tar]

You've just nicely described at least 40% of the human race.

It's a demographic reality that sustains big retailers, like Costco and Walmart, amongst other key features of our daily lives, so it's an important number

Who Moves? Who Stays Put? Where’s Home?

Most Americans have moved to a new community at least once in their lives, although a notable number — nearly four-in-ten — have never left the place in which they were born.

www.pewresearch.org

Interesting article.

 

[Spencer100]

That's exactly the reason the feds are involved. They want to influence health care in Canada. The feds use money as leverage to work around constitutional divisions of powers. Any province is free right now to opt out, raise its taxes, and run its health care (insurance, mainly) exactly as it pleases. What scares the sh!t out of the people who can't stand the idea of someone buying better health care is precisely that a province might go rogue and succeed (see improvements in all the usual metrics - wait times and outcomes).

Yes I wish we would.

Digital ID?

I thought it was already here without Government input.

Almost everyone here has some sort of smart device and it tracks you better than anything the Government could come up with.


One day a week , I pick up my kids at the ex's home. My phone beeps to let me know what kind of commute I have to her house and estimated time of travel and arrival. My phone beeps every morning with estimated travel time to work, ( I beat it this morning by 10 minutes)
Google even knows when I shop at Costco. It even knows the detour I make to drop my kids at school on the days I have them.

Between smart devices, credit/debit cards, points cards, loyalty cards we are well tracked. Maybe too well tracked.

Enhanced drivers licenses with RF chips can be read at the border crossings already. At one time there was talk about making the photo health card and drivers licenses in Ontario the same card, but think privacy issues came up.

Digital Passport is most likely coming in the next few years, but I am just guessing that our smart devices are not secure enough to allow it just yet. Too many phones are lost or stolen or flushed down toilets etc, to have that key information on it.

If you look at this way, every time we purchase something at a certain large box store. It works like this
1) you buy the product at the checkout,
2) report of sale is sent to store manager in seconds for inventory control
3) inventory control is already checking in store supply to see if resupply of product is required
4) district warehouse gets a message to add resupply to next order
5) Order is ready and placed in the cue for the next store delivery
6) Head office knows that you purchased it and they have 30, 60, 90 or 120 days depending on supplier to pay for that purchased item
This all happens with 45 minutes of your purchase. The store knows how you paid, cash, debit, credit or gift card.

This is how well the government could track us if needed. If not better.

Phones now have out finger prints scanned, eye scans to keep people out of our phones and other devices.

Biggest issues I see for digital ID is older generation that does not trust computers or government or those who live off radar and ghost the world. They will have to be convinced this is a good thing. Other issue will be rural areas where the internet and digital world does not work due to poor reception or too far off the map to get signal. Other issue what is the government going to use the tracking information for and how long will they store it and who can access it, will a warrant or court order be required to gain access to avoid abuse of power and invasion of privacy?

Yes but its the Social Credit system that the fear.

Trust in government is gone.

The thing is if you put your tin foil hat on Digital Id, 15 Minute City, Digital currency, Medical passport and Personal Carbon footprint you start to see the problem some people are worried about.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It's. 700$ power bill. They were shocked as they claimed they paid around 50$ in BC. Was on FB. I will see if I can find it.

NSP is another org that needs to be reigned in. I’m moving ahead with a plan to go slightly over 100% Solar so I’m hoping to avoid their rate tyranny in retirement…many can’t chose that option though.

And that's fair I get that. One point, there is no such thing as a fair share. You contribute to until you die. That's life since WW1.

True of course…just some pay more in taxes than others over their lifetime; fwd govt workers generally are in that group back home on the Island.

My point is we should be encouraging people to move to where the opportunity is, not let them stay stagnate is another place. You know as well as I do, the whole the Maritimes and NFLD is full of working age people that are allowed exist off of others folks dimes because anything on the west of the Canso Causeway sacres the bejesus out of them, as an example. I know people like this in 36 CBG, they won't take a contract unless it's at their Armouries.

Agree with you, laughed at the canso causeway part (because it’s fair and funny). Class B in Aldershot? I’m in! Class B in Meaford. Are you nuts??!

If we want improvement and growth, encouraging stagnation is not going to foster that.

But what if I see “flagging for my stamps” as a viable career? What if I identify as a flagger and come from a long lineage of flaggers? Lol

I’ve heard this type of stuff before when I was younger back home. “Why work full time when I get get too stamps fishing and grade potatoes under the table…”.

 

[Halifax Tar]

NSP is another org that needs to be reigned in. I’m moving ahead with a plan to go slightly over 100% Solar so I’m hoping to avoid their rate tyranny in retirement…many can’t chose that option though.

Agreed. NSP has the whole of NS over the barrel.

We haven't really looked into solar. Perhaps we should.

True of course…just some pay more in taxes than others over their lifetime; fwd govt workers generally are in that group back home on the Island.

Agree with you, laughed at the canso causeway part (because it’s fair and funny). Class B in Aldershot? I’m in! Class B in Meaford. Are you nuts??!

But what if I see “flagging for my stamps” as a viable career? What if I identify as a flagger and come from a long lineage of flaggers? Lol

I’ve heard this type of stuff before when I was younger back home. “Why work full time when I get get too stamps fishing and grade potatoes under the table…”.

This is why I don't think we should be giving out cash. Should be food stamps and in store credit at value village (clothing only). No cash. And perhaps a percentage of rent and utilities.

 

[CountDC]

food stamps and in store credit for clothing can be turned into cash though. Saw a video the other day where people were using stamps to buy cases of bottled water, pouring out the water then selling the bottles for the refund. People always find a way around the system.

 

[Halifax Tar]

food stamps and in store credit for clothing can be turned into cash though. Saw a video the other day where people were using stamps to buy cases of bottled water, pouring out the water then selling the bottles for the refund. People always find a way around the system.

Make them like ration cards. You get XXX commodities per week based on the size of the household. IF they want to sell it after that and go hungry, that's a personal choice. As for the in store credit, same deal. Wanna get that winter coat and then sell it on FB Marketplace, pas problem; enjoy the cold.

 

[GR66]

Make them like ration cards. You get some of XXX commodities per week based on the size of the household. IF they want to sell it after that and go hungry, that's a personal choice. As for the in store credit, same deal. Wanna get that winter coat and then sell it on FB Marketplace, pas problem; enjoy the cold.

Digital ID ration card to avoid fraud?

 

[kratz]

Of the $7 billion dollars PM Chretien cut from transfer payments in the 1990s, after accounting for inflation the transfers would be $12.2 billion dollars in 2022. That sum would only return health care to 1995 funding levels. PM Trudeau's additional $33.8 billion dollars reflects the higher costs of health care due to the myriad of issues faced by the system. As many have pointed out for the past three decades, funding alone will not resolve all of the issues facing health care.

 

[blacktriangle]

Make them like ration cards. You get XXX commodities per week based on the size of the household. IF they want to sell it after that and go hungry, that's a personal choice. As for the in store credit, same deal. Wanna get that winter coat and then sell it on FB Marketplace, pas problem; enjoy the cold.

That's one of the benefits of having programmable money i.e. CBDCs. You can essentially govern how certain payments are to be spent. Add in the elimination of cash, and the underground economy will undoubtedly face more challenges than it currently does. Although people will always find ways to adapt.

With that said, I'm not in favour of any constraints on earned income, or anything that restricts the freedom of law-abiding, tax paying citizens. I can see some specific use cases for a CBDC, but expect we'll see a lot of mission creep over time.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Of the $7 billion dollars PM Chretien cut from transfer payments in the 1990s, after accounting for inflation the transfers would be $12.2 billion dollars in 2022. That sum would only return health care to 1995 funding levels. PM Trudeau's additional $33.8 billion dollars reflects the higher costs of health care due to the myriad of issues faced by the system. As many have pointed out for the past three decades, funding alone will not resolve all of the issues facing health care.

Higher costs due to possibly neglecting it for a long period of time?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Higher costs due to higher tech and compensation creep across the spectrum. Medicine, like defence, doesn't get cheaper with each succeeding generation of equipment.