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Trump administration 2024-2028

One of the problems I have with watching the US gong show is trying to separate the things that Trump says into categories of (a) actual planks of intended policy, (b) fever dreams/cranial diarrhea or, (c) deliberately goading the other side just 'cuz.
 
I agree with the moral position.

The political position has to be practical.

A two-sided solution might be better, but is not strictly necessary. "Supply creates its own demand" in part means that a provider can prosper just by putting out something at a price point people find agreeable - even if it's disposable junk. If supply and demand side are both difficult to address, whether politically or practically, I expect the politically easier path to be taken no matter how much more practically difficult it is.
The US has a loooong history of the 'need' to a low cost supply of warm bodies to keep the gentry in the preferred life style. Slavery, mass legal immigration and now mass illegal immigration. It goes back over 175yrs, all the while the 'gentry' keeps chugging along.

Its bad optics for Trump and MAGA if the evening news is showing a number of white women from a Dallas gated suburb being cuffed into the back of some US law enforcement van after raiding their houses because of their illegal nannies, who where picked up an hour earlier at the bus stop, gave up their employers......

Or what if ICE swooped into a few large romaine lettuce farms on the first day of picking a new crop and arrested not only the illegal workers but the owners of the farms and their US citizen foremen who hired the illegals in the first place and work with them on a daily basis, ensuring that those farms crops are left to rot in the fields......
 
One of the problems I have with watching the US gong show is trying to separate the things that Trump says into categories of (a) actual planks of intended policy, (b) fever dreams/cranial diarrhea or, (c) deliberately goading the other side just 'cuz.
Pointless endeavour. Watch what gets signed and what the secretaries are doing.
 
The US has a loooong history of the 'need' to a low cost supply of warm bodies to keep the gentry in the preferred life style. Slavery, mass legal immigration and now mass illegal immigration. It goes back over 175yrs, all the while the 'gentry' keeps chugging along.
Substitute almost any country for "US". We have our own ways of bringing in warm bodies. How much does colour of law improve the moral position? It isn't only menial labourers whose potential compensation is undercut by programs to bring in foreign workers with lower expectations. Nevertheless I favour legal immigration, particularly of skilled workers who can be so employed.
 
A book review of "Leap of Faith" (by Mazarr). An amusing look back (for me). In parts over the top and full of subjective and colourful impressions, but a reminder of what the available alternatives can be like in American party politics, and of some of the factors contributing to where things lie today. Also, it touches on a handful of commonly held views that are myths.

The reviewer has a theory about "how we got Trump":

"A few years ago there was a fun meme where people collected reasons why other people said we got Trump. But no, seriously, that video is why you got Trump. Every respectable institution in American society compromised itself over Iraq, and every candidate in the 2016 election pretended it wasn’t a big deal, and then one man stood up on stage and told them all that they were full of shit. No, Iraq wasn’t the only issue where the views of the majority of Americans had literally no representation in either party (immigration and the degradation of the native lower class were also significant), but it was a big one. Economic theory tells us what happens next: when a monopoly gets lazy, it creates an opening for entrepreneurs. Trump spotted a big, wide open opportunity, and he seized it. That’s why you got Trump."
 
Can I put my elbows down now? I am getting tired and driving with my elbows up and mask on makes me look ridiculous...
;)
 
Mandan is a naturalized citizen, so of course Trump has mused out loud on camera about looking into that- on his usual “a lot of
People are saying…” standard.


Is it fair to assume an accusation like that is libelous?
 
The parade is held up as a facet of militarism, militarism is held up as a facet of fascism. Some people keep pointing to single events - some substantially and rightly alarming, and some frivolous - and fitting those to their cases for fascism. But most single events - like the parade - can be fitted to other cases; in this case, also populism, or even merely Trump's ego. Those willing to accept thin evidence in one case should not demand thorough evidence for another.

This echoes a point I have tried to make before. If we enumerated all possible characteristics of ideologies and all ideologies of interest and then mapped the former to the latter, there would be overlap: characteristics shared among ideologies. Oddball inconsistent events are not useful indicators, and a correct diagnosis requires all criteria be met. In particular, an authoritarian streak (and thus characteristics of authoritarianism) runs through most top-down ideologies and is to be expected in the people who seek high positions in those places.

Furthermore, people are always seizing on militating evidence and ignoring mitigating evidence. The administration basically ignored the "No Kings" protests. Real kings and tyrants don't tolerate that kind of open dissent. The administration will do as all administrations do and nominate judges and justices fitting particular models when nomination opportunities arise, but there is no serious indication that it is about to remove and replace the multitudes handing the administration setbacks and defeats in the courts. If the administration fires and replaces a senior military official, it will be for plausible cause - opponents will find reasons to disagree, but proponents will find reasons to agree - and not to wholesale replace the leadership with compliant GOFOs. The administration is going after media that the administration believes have presented information deceitfully, but it is not going after everyone who is a critic - even a severe critic; moreover, this is no different than the people in opposition who have their own ideas about what is malinformation and what should be done about it.

Armchair psychoanalysis over the internet is exceptionally rude behaviour. I can't identify with something unless you provide your definition. "MAGA" is one of those "I know it when I see it" things that people throw around, and I can't read minds. I lean libertarian in my ideals and classically liberal in the principles of governance I favour and conservative in my politics and I have no particular like or dislike of Trump. The administration is usefully resetting overreach by prior administrations, and applying pressures that have motivated Canada and other countries and many institutions and agencies and people to shake off over-reliance on the US. I don't suffer the collective whine of the fools who object to things done by this administration that were not equally resisted when done by prior administrations. I am scornful of the multitude of occasions on which people supposedly against the erosion of norms and decency take to eroding norms and decency to alleviate their frustration and policy differences. I have contempt for those trying to paint a picture of eroding democracy in the US when I compare it to our own governing structure and the respective numbers of positions and questions that are routinely put before voters.

Agreed.

Absolutely. Claiming the administration is fascist is a precursor to extreme opposition suitable to opposing fascism, or to encouraging others to so believe and act. What is allowable if you are really fighting Hitler, or even merely Mussolini?

The point I usually make is that what matters is whether it was done before. It is unreasonable to bitch when the other "team" applies in other ways the powers and capabilities that were convenient at one time for one's own "team". A detention camp or facility is a detention camp or facility. Facilitating large amounts of law-breaking creates the reasonable excuse for large amounts of law-enforcing. Exporting prisoners in one context opens the door to doing it in another. Following through on threats to find some ways to prosecute people, even if there is nothing in hand when the threat is made, invites retaliation. Creating invasive new powers for a particular envisioned purpose does not limit them from being applied otherwise. Acting unrestrained of the constitution etc invites more of the same.

As a practical political matter: if one party has repeatedly secured political advantage by bad behaviour and shows no sign of changing in the face of passive dismay, then tit-for-tat is fair until the first party exhibits evidence of genuine reform.

In most cases, yes. Their noses need to be rubbed in it until they really do follow through on their rhetoric - they're better than Trump, they don't go low, they want to preserve democratic norms and institutions, they themselves cut back some of the intrusive illiberal things they did etc, etc.

So basically, because pols you don’t like got away with small scale incompetence, corruption, criming and illiberality, you’re ok with the Trump Administration’s large scale incompetence, corruption, criming and illiberality. You think you’re pointing out hypocrisy, but it’s just excuse making.

“Why did you rob the bank?”

“Because the scoundrel, Jimmy, stole a chocolate bar from the store”.
 
Meanwhile, in the Oval Office...


It should no longer surprising or a mystery as to why the Trump admin leaks like a sieve every other day.
 

Or what if ICE swooped into a few large romaine lettuce farms on the first day of picking a new crop and arrested not only the illegal workers but the owners of the farms and their US citizen foremen who hired the illegals in the first place and work with them on a daily basis, ensuring that those farms crops are left to rot in the fields......
It might be better for our health. It seems about every six months we see a recall on Romaine because of salmonella.. Romaine lettuce is trying to kill us (or maybe it's a plot by the illegal immigrants. Hmmmm)
 
So basically, because pols you don’t like got away with small scale incompetence, corruption, criming and illiberality, you’re ok with the Trump Administration’s large scale incompetence, corruption, criming and illiberality. You think you’re pointing out hypocrisy, but it’s just excuse making.
Don't bother with that bullshit. Qualitative hand-waving about categories without specific examples is vacuous. I'm highly capable of assessing "small" and "large" for myself. All the attempts to salt pretexts for investigations were large. The widespread prolonged concerted efforts to conceal Biden's infirmity were large. The Iraq war was very, very large. The circumventions of customary protections for civil rights necessitated by the War on Terror are large.
 
The parade is held up as a facet of militarism, militarism is held up as a facet of fascism.
Are you using the passive voice to hide that this is a narrative of your construction? You held up militarism as a facet of fascism.

Some people keep pointing to single events
Some people like you? You who raised militarism as a facet of fascism and then clung to just the single example of the parade when presented a list of other examples? A non-exhaustive list includes domestic counter protest deployments of Army & Marines in LA, some of the self-congratulatory antics after a sortie to Iran, the massive pool of funding to expand & further militarize ICE via "Big Beautiful Bill", the threats of massive force against anyone who might interrupt the parade, the use of riot control agents to facilitate a bible photo in Lafayette Square.

The administration basically ignored the "No Kings" protests. Real kings and tyrants don't tolerate that kind of open dissent.
Speaking of some people pointing to single events. This seems to be all you've got on the idea that he's not really a tyrant. The lack of response to "No Kings" has more to do with the lack of endurance in the protest and not the benevolence of Trump. Yes the numbers were huge, but participants were out for a day and home for supper.

If the administration fires and replaces a senior military official, it will be for plausible cause - opponents will find reasons to disagree, but proponents will find reasons to agree - and not to wholesale replace the leadership with compliant GOFOs.
I mean, the administration has already done purges in the military leadership. Do you think just because you tell us things haven't happened that we all forget?


Absolutely. Claiming the administration is fascist is a precursor to extreme opposition suitable to opposing fascism, or to encouraging others to so believe and act. What is allowable if you are really fighting Hitler, or even merely Mussolini?
Should Americans be more amenable to being subjugated by a corrupt, nationalistic authoritarian because he is not Mussolini? Or because his racial bigotries are more directed to Africans and South Americans than toward some sub-set of Europeans?

I don't suffer the collective whine of the fools who object to things done by this administration that were not equally resisted when done by prior administrations.
Let's not pretend any previous administration came close to some of the things this current administration is doing. And, let's not pretend that you haven't whined and bemoaned far lesser transgressions from other administrations.

The point I usually make is that what matters is whether it was done before.
No. A wrong in the past does not justify repetition of the wrong in the present. That is an amoral philosophy.

It is unreasonable to bitch when the other "team" applies in other ways the powers and capabilities that were convenient at one time for one's own "team". A detention camp or facility is a detention camp or facility. Facilitating large amounts of law-breaking creates the reasonable excuse for large amounts of law-enforcing. Exporting prisoners in one context opens the door to doing it in another. Following through on threats to find some ways to prosecute people, even if there is nothing in hand when the threat is made, invites retaliation. Creating invasive new powers for a particular envisioned purpose does not limit them from being applied otherwise. Acting unrestrained of the constitution etc invites more of the same.

As a practical political matter: if one party has repeatedly secured political advantage by bad behaviour and shows no sign of changing in the face of passive dismay, then tit-for-tat is fair until the first party exhibits evidence of genuine reform.

In most cases, yes. Their noses need to be rubbed in it until they really do follow through on their rhetoric - they're better than Trump, they don't go low, they want to preserve democratic norms and institutions, they themselves cut back some of the intrusive illiberal things they did etc, etc.
This is insanity. You are advocating it is right and proper for political parties abuse power if another party did it before, and that punitive policies are a fine and normal thing. Continually raising the stakes, tit-for-tat in a race to the bottom that drags a whole country into its demise. There are norms that need to be upheld. There are norms that need to be rebuilt. And all parties have played a part in American democratic back-sliding. But, pretending Trump is continuing at the established standard is farcical. I mean, it is a great gas lighting narrative to say Trump is just doing what Democrats already did, but it is not true. If it is not your love for MAGA then maybe it is your hate for US Democrats that is enabling you to endorse some gross anti-democratic behaviours and human rights transgressions. Certainly, concentration camps to "own the libs" is not an okay thing.

The other side did not do something similar enough so that this is okay. And even if the other side did do something similar, this would not be okay.
 
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