Trump administration 2024-2028

[The Bread Guy]

Who said anything about fighting? Just don’t go grovelling to a known hostile actor we’re on the outs with while our main partner is having a hissy fit.

Yup, especially on the “known hostile actor” front.

The Liberals have battered wife syndrome when it comes to the PRC. The Tories have it with the US.

Some of the commentariat of all colours are painting the current CAN-USA relationship in that light even with Team Red up to bat here now.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Does that actually work? The book was written by a guy that bankrupted casinos and generally fails at most things he does, and was riding on inherited real estate wealth.
His current success is due to milking his cult followings as well as astonishing levels of open corruption and graft.

The investments firms that bought out Ls Vegas are doing a great job of bankrupting Vegas on a grander scale.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The investments firms that bought out Ls Vegas are doing a great job of bankrupting Vegas on a grander scale.

Sure, but they somehow make insane amounts of money by buying things and stripping it of all it's actual wealth, leveraging things to siphon loans then taking advantage of US (and other countries) bankruptcy laws to minimize their exposure and still make some money selling off the carcass.

He opened a gaudy ass casino, lost a lot personally, didn't pay a lot of contractors and stuck it to small creditors and businesses by not paying invoices. He probably got a tax write off out of it to offset his losses, but that was all due to incompetence vice a deliberate strategy to essentially strip mine all values out of anything like a horde of financial locusts that the investment firms employ.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I’m not getting wrapped around the axle on this. Most countries have considerable entry and often exit controls. Every state has absolute sovereign right to control its borders. They’re well within their rights to verify identity and admissibility of everyone coming in. We should be doing generally the same for every non-citizen.

It will be interesting to see how they implement this at the land border when exiting. There is very limited space at some of the facilities to queue cars exiting for photos, especially when all passengers in a vehicle will need to be photographed.
Also, using myself as an example, a dual Can-US citizen living in Canada and driving a CDN plated car, will they expect me, driving a CDN plated car to go to be photographed when exiting but then when I say I’m American they will don’t photograph me and let me drive on? What about a car with both non-Americans and Americans in the vehicle? Will some be photographed and others not?
I will not agree to be photographed either when entering or exiting.

 

[Lumber]

Using Trump and the label of "unreliable", "hostile", or whatever other pejorative for the USA is absolutely the deflection I'd expect from the LPC to justify cozying up to the CCP. Anyone advocating for closer connections to the CCP vice USA is not at all read-in on even open source information on the subject.

Using "label" and "pejorative" implies that it is just an "opinion" that what he is is hostile and reliable. You're also implying that the LPC always wanted to cozy up to the CPC and this is just a clever, if opportune, LPC tactic to make it happen.

This grossly ignores the reality of the situation, regardless of whether or not you agree with the chosen course of action to deal with it.

Trump is temporary and so are the most offensive parts of his policy. But neither the Democrats nor a different Republican POTUS will roll back on a lot of what is changing.

Did you throw up as you typed this?

 

[RangerRay]

Does that actually work? The book was written by a guy that bankrupted casinos and generally fails at most things he does, and was riding on inherited real estate wealth.
His current success is due to milking his cult followings as well as astonishing levels of open corruption and graft.

Never mind that book was written by a ghost writer who came out and said everything in it was complete BS.

So we are in a trade war with the number one and number two economies in the world and have a trade deal already with number 3.

Where does that leave us exactly?

That's what I mean about two front war. How is Canada meant to survive against both the USA and China? There is no path to peace with the USA, there is with China.

Something has to give.

That’s a false dichotomy where we have pick which spouse beater we want. I refuse to play that game when there are other partners we have yet to optimize trade with.

Also, as bad as things are now, there is still some hope that the US will revert to sanity. The next three years will tell the tale there. The PRC is still the same PRC that wants to make us and others its economic colonies.

 

[PrairieFella]

One thing Altair brought up I agree with is the possibility of Washington spreading political discord in Canada being oir biggest threat atm. It was exposed as happening in Greenland. Its no coincidence the Alberta seppies have American backing and have met with Republican officials. Theyre "useful idiots" at worst, actively colluding with foreigners at worst. My fear is it gets more official and the CIA stsrt putting their thumbs on the scale, if they arent already.

 

[JLB50]

Until a semblance of sanity returns to the American political system, I think Canada should have a foot in both camps. Play one against the other where necessary. I absolutely don’t trust China…politically, economically and militarily. But the Trump administration has IMHO basically declared economic war on Canada with the goal of making us the 51st state. It’s gone well past the stage of just idle speculation, as is true of Greenland as well. When and only when that next-door threat goes away, Canada should not fully close the door on improving relations with China, at least to some degree. And if Trump forces most of the Canadian auto manufacturers to close up shop and move south of the border and scares other European, Japanese or Korean investment away, then we need to seriously consider doing business with Chinese (or Indian) car companies. In summary, the immediate major threat to Canada is from the United States; the long-term threat is from China. Either one could possibly blot out our existence. Tread carefully.

 

[Altair]

That’s a false dichotomy where we have pick which spouse beater we want. I refuse to play that game when there are other partners we have yet to optimize trade with.

I mean, exports to Europe and the UK increase quite in the last few months, as well as redirecting some trade to Asia,but these are simply using the trade architecture that was already there, CETA and TPP.

Meanwhile, our 2 trillion dollar economy is in a trade war with 50 trillion dollars of the global economy. I don't know which way Carney is going to go with this, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he looks at the math and realizes the math is not mathing.

Also, as bad as things are now, there is still some hope that the US will revert to sanity. The next three years will tell the tale there. The PRC is still the same PRC that wants to make us and others its economic colonies.

It doesn't matter worth a damn if the USA returns to sanity. The fact that the USA is able to swerve into insanity and drag us into their madness means we need to USA proof our economy as much as humanly possible.

If that's possible to do without China, gravy. If it's not,then bite the bullet.

 

[JLB50]

One thing Altair brought up I agree with is the possibility of Washington spreading political discord in Canada being oir biggest threat atm. It was exposed as happening in Greenland. Its no coincidence the Alberta seppies have American backing and have met with Republican officials. Theyre "useful idiots" at worst, actively colluding with foreigners at worst. My fear is it gets more official and the CIA stsrt putting their thumbs on the scale, if they arent already.

I’m sure the CIA is currently there in Alberta like a dirty oil-stained shirt.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I will not agree to be photographed either when entering or exiting.

Have you actually ever drove over the border......your picture is already taken either way. Unless your ducking down or locked in the trunk.....

 

[Brad Sallows]

That's what I mean about two front war. How is Canada meant to survive against both the USA and China? There is no path to peace with the USA, there is with China.

Something has to give.

The thing that has to give, for a path to peace with China, is Canada. It's ridiculous to argue on the one hand that standing up to Trump and ignoring the US is better than acquiescence to his demands, and on the other to plead for good relations with China that will essentially entail a great deal of submission. In view of their open intellectual piracy and political interference, it's stupid to the bone.

The path to peace with the US is about 3 years away at worst; sooner if most of the excuses for presidential authority to tariff are shit-canned by the USSC. China will go on squeezing us for decades.

 

[Lumber]

The thing that has to give, for a path to peace with China, is Canada. It's ridiculous to argue on the one hand that standing up to Trump and ignoring the US is better than acquiescence to his demands, and on the other to plead for good relations with China that will essentially entail a great deal of submission. In view of their open intellectual piracy and political interference, it's stupid to the bone.

The path to peace with the US is about 3 years away at worst; sooner if most of the excuses for presidential authority to tariff are shit-canned by the USSC. China will go on squeezing us for decades.

Trade isn’t some hostage situation; it’s a two-way deal. China needs our stuff, minerals, energy, fertlizier, just as much as we benefit from their market. Canada’s not walking into this blind either; we’ve got investment rules, trade safeguards, and allies backing a rules-based system. The idea that we’d just sit there and get “squeezed” for decades assumes we have zero leverage or strategy, which just isn’t true. Smart engagement isn’t submission, it’s using our strengths to stay in the game. Cutting ourselves off out of fear doesn’t protect us, it just makes us smaller and more dependent on the U.S.

 

[Czech_pivo]

 

[Czech_pivo]

He’s crystal clear in this speech that he 100% believes in free trade.

 

[Altair]

Trade isn’t some hostage situation; it’s a two-way deal. China needs our stuff, minerals, energy, fertlizier, just as much as we benefit from their market. Canada’s not walking into this blind either; we’ve got investment rules, trade safeguards, and allies backing a rules-based system. The idea that we’d just sit there and get “squeezed” for decades assumes we have zero leverage or strategy, which just isn’t true. Smart engagement isn’t submission, it’s using our strengths to stay in the game. Cutting ourselves off out of fear doesn’t protect us, it just makes us smaller and more dependent on the U.S.

I've blocked the individual you're responding to but I can imagine it's big bad China this, big bad China that, but I thought I would add.

Australia does most of their trade with China. Australia does not tariff BYD. Australia is not some dystopian hellscape due to trading with China.

 

[brihard]

Trade isn’t some hostage situation; it’s a two-way deal. China needs our stuff, minerals, energy, fertlizier, just as much as we benefit from their market. Canada’s not walking into this blind either; we’ve got investment rules, trade safeguards, and allies backing a rules-based system. The idea that we’d just sit there and get “squeezed” for decades assumes we have zero leverage or strategy, which just isn’t true. Smart engagement isn’t submission, it’s using our strengths to stay in the game. Cutting ourselves off out of fear doesn’t protect us, it just makes us smaller and more dependent on the U.S.

I have no great issue with plain, transactional ‘buy and sell’ of resources, goods and services with China, with necessary safeguards for national security and intellectual property protection. We don’t have to approve them buying stakes in Canadian companies. Want to buy copper or soybeans? Ok, we’ll sell you copper or soybeans. Obviously we need to be cautious lest we have too much of our supply of any particular sector feeding their demand, such that they can weaponize it. Want to sell us toys and kitchen appliances? Ok, cool. Stay within trade laws and agreements, don’t engage in anticompetitive practices, and we can do business.

Keep it transactional, rigorously safeguard national security and economic integrity, and don’t get too dependent on them as an export market. But within reason, sure, why wouldn’t we trade with an economy that huge?

Resilience through diversification- both of economic sectors, and of markets.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I have no great issue with plain, transactional ‘buy and sell’ of resources, goods and services with China, with necessary safeguards for national security and intellectual property protection. We don’t have to approve them buying stakes in Canadian companies. Want to buy copper or soybeans? Ok, we’ll sell you copper or soybeans. Obviously we need to be cautious lest we have too much of our supply of any particular sector feeding their demand, such that they can weaponize it. Want to sell us toys and kitchen appliances? Ok, cool. Stay within trade laws and agreements, don’t engage in anticompetitive practices, and we can do business.

Keep it transactional, rigorously safeguard national security and economic integrity, and don’t get too dependent on them as an export market. But within reason, sure, why wouldn’t we trade with an economy that huge?

Resilience through diversification- both of economic sectors, and of markets.

Basically we’re not friends with benefits, just friends.

 

[brihard]

Basically we’re not friends with benefits, just friends.

No… Just parties in mutually beneficial transactions. Like when work pays me for some OT, or when I buy groceries, a movie ticket, or pay someone to service my furnace.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Trade isn’t some hostage situation; it’s a two-way deal. China needs our stuff, minerals, energy, fertlizier, just as much as we benefit from their market. Canada’s not walking into this blind either; we’ve got investment rules, trade safeguards, and allies backing a rules-based system. The idea that we’d just sit there and get “squeezed” for decades assumes we have zero leverage or strategy, which just isn’t true. Smart engagement isn’t submission, it’s using our strengths to stay in the game. Cutting ourselves off out of fear doesn’t protect us, it just makes us smaller and more dependent on the U.S.

Sure. And along the way they find ways to acquire our tech and then undercut our companies, or we end up spending billions ripping out installed hardware we can't trust, or they get us dependent/vulnerable on a trade flow (in either direction) and then apply pressure to be politically compliant. There are deals to be made with Chinese suppliers and customers, but if the point is to disentangle from an unfriendly US, only a fool would turn around and entangle with a much more unfriendly China.

All of the things "bad" about the US (eg. relative DIME power, political interference, subordination of foreign interests to domestic interests, pressure to conform to their foreign policy) have the potential to be "worse" with China.