Two Marine F-18s missing
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aesop081
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Jordan411 said:
Why couldn't it be ? Ever hear of MANPADS ?
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SA-7,SA-14/16/18-- Stinger.......(ever heard of those) probably not....
I really doubt insurgents could shoot down 2 of these aircraft.
Where in the hell have u been!!!!!
The Stinger in Afghanistan brough the Soviet Invasion to a halt.
Do some research, hopefully I am wrong and those fliers are still alive.
I really doubt insurgents could shoot down 2 of these aircraft.
Where in the hell have u been!!!!!
The Stinger in Afghanistan brough the Soviet Invasion to a halt.
Do some research, hopefully I am wrong and those fliers are still alive.
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aesop081
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NCRCrow said:
Like i said : MANPADS
Man portable air defence systems
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aesop081
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*aesop returning to planet earth*
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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I'm in agreement with the other posters, have you watched any news clips?
Considering the insurgents have taken out what, M1A1 abrams main battle tanks, appachie gunships, if im not mistaken, a stealth fighter? (Thought i remember seeing that) what makes an f18 so invulnerable?
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aesop081
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Most likely, this was an accident or something of the sort. I just took issue with the originator's statement that it could NOT have been ennemy action. This was a very bold and uneducated statemnt from someone who obviously has no knowledge in this area. I hope that the aircrew turn up safe and sound and get to return to their units and eventualy home.
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Well my first general comment of doubting the insurgents could take down 2 of these F-18s seems to be right with various news agency's starting to blame weather for the most likely mid air collision. I am more than aware of the Russian SA series SAMs and the American Stinger (can't see the insurgents having a huge number of these). The Stinger in Afghanistan did exactly what it was designed to do, rip apart all those HINDS and SU-25s. Would it have a problem destroying an American helicopter? Probably not. I well trained Marine F-18? I would hope not, let alone 2 at once. Also to the person that mentioned the stealth getting shot down I think your confusing the Iraq war with the Kosovo incident because I distinctly remember a F-117 getting shot down, the pilot dramatically rescued (or so the media says) and the enemy holding up pieces of the aircraft. In the Iraqi conflict yes many, many helicopters have been shot down, multiple cargo aircraft, (including that British C-130 not too long ago) all brought down (apparently) by SA missiles. I even remember before the major battles were over a AH-64 was brought down by simple small arms fire to great media attention. I'm not saying the F-18 is invulnerable but even in the link I provided it too shows 2 different incidents involving 2 F-18s colliding mid air. The insurgents are most definitely getting smarter and the fact that those roadside bombs have the ability to take out a M1 MBT shows their advances. Perhaps I'm mistaken but regardless of everything said here I do hope for the safe return of the pilots.
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I am curious as to where you are getting your numbers from? Why is it that you don't believe that insurgents "couldn't have a huge number of these(SA Missles)". I am not trying to start a flame fest on here, it is just that you don't seem to look upon the insurgents as having any/much warfare experience or knowledge. Once again this seems like a rather bold statement based on very little information/knowledge.
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Sorry I wasn't clear there, I was trying to say I don't think the insurgents have a decent number of Stingers, not other missiles.
(also I would like to add I feel like a complete idiot talking about this stuff to actual members of the forces -aesop081- who has been in the forces for some time while I'm just an 18 year old kid waiting to go to basic, who one day would like to have the military background he does, I also have no interest in starting a flame war)
(also I would like to add I feel like a complete idiot talking about this stuff to actual members of the forces -aesop081- who has been in the forces for some time while I'm just an 18 year old kid waiting to go to basic, who one day would like to have the military background he does, I also have no interest in starting a flame war)
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I doubt insurgents would be able to take down two F-18s without then having an entire Squadron of bombers on top of them in a minute. And while the stinger worked in Afghanistan, the terrain and topographic elements of Iraq truly restrict such fighting. In Afghanistan, the elevation is so high that the air gets very (very) thin. Aircraft have a lot of problems in this environment. Furthermore, the Valleys and gullies in Afghanistan (was the war prior to infrared?) allowed the mujaheeden to ambush the soviet aircraft as they passed by, unseen. One thing no one seems to remember, though, is the fact that two British Aircraft collided with each other at the onset of the conflict, so this isn't the first time this could've happened. Either way, I wish the Crew good luck, for I hope they survived.
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I was in Iraq (BIAP) in 2003 and landed beside a C-17 missing an engine, plus the DHS Aircraft that took one a month earlier. MANPADS are a threat, if not a psychological one.
Take the road from Bagram to Kabul, some good examples of burnt out soviet a/c.
Manpads are viable.
Take the road from Bagram to Kabul, some good examples of burnt out soviet a/c.
Manpads are viable.
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I'm thinking some sort of accident, out in the middle of nowhere. If the terrorists had taken down two
F-18's, there'd be video and stills all over the place of the celebrations at the wreckage. Hopefully the locater beacons managed to work and the aircrews are already safe, we just don't know it yet. I'm sure once they figured out what happened and the PR guys have gone over their press release, we'll here something. If only to stop the terrorists from claiming the wreckage as theirs. Possibly, they went down over the water and there is no wreckage. Maybe we should just sit back and wait. I'm sure something will be said shortly.
F-18's, there'd be video and stills all over the place of the celebrations at the wreckage. Hopefully the locater beacons managed to work and the aircrews are already safe, we just don't know it yet. I'm sure once they figured out what happened and the PR guys have gone over their press release, we'll here something. If only to stop the terrorists from claiming the wreckage as theirs. Possibly, they went down over the water and there is no wreckage. Maybe we should just sit back and wait. I'm sure something will be said shortly.
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Allied air tactics have evolved a lot since the Persian Gulf War, when the Brits lost several Tornado's attempting to destroy Iraqi airfields with low level attacks. Most allied aircraft will now fly above three miles altitude to negate the effectiveness of AAA and Manpads. The bonus in this equation is the aircraft has a much wider field of view for sensor equipment, and the "smart" munitions have more time to stabilize and acquire their targets.
I certainly feel for the pilots who were lost, the job is quite dangerous enough without enemy action, and zoomies who have to fly low and slow (helicopter pilots, transport pilots taking off and landing) have the worst of both worlds.
I certainly feel for the pilots who were lost, the job is quite dangerous enough without enemy action, and zoomies who have to fly low and slow (helicopter pilots, transport pilots taking off and landing) have the worst of both worlds.
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aesop081
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a_majoor said:
Unfortunately with every advantage there is a disadvantage. As seen during OP ALLIED FORCE even with precision weapons, a higher altitude does not guarantee everything. When we entered Kosovo on the ground in 99, i got to see the results of the Serb's elaborate camouflage and deception measures. NATO warplanes had bombed mostly decoys (fake bridges, fake tanks, etc...) rather that the actual targets ( to the point where they left Kosovo with significantly more tanks that NATO claimed they had remaining). If you remember, NATO had made a decision to bomb from higher altitudes in an effort to avoid losing aircrews. Yes you can hit a bridge from outside AAA/MANPADS range but it proved difficult at those altitudes to make certain that it was an actual target. Therfore there will always be a need to get down onto the weeds to get the job done and thus in the kill range of MANPADS / AAA. As well, JSOW, SLAM-ER and JDAM are all very nice but have serious drawback when it come to CAS........there's a reason why the first letter stands for CLOSE ;D
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