U.S. 2012 Election

[OldSolduer]

What about the Zombie Apocalypse? Huh?

 

[cupper]

Well, if you consider that Romney exhibits traits of a zombie ....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Fortune Magazine just sunk the Republican witch hunt / conspiracy theory over "Fast and Furious"

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

You really believe this will be the end of it?

Fortune magazine trumps the US populace?

I can't even imagine how many hundreds of people might even read, let alone pay attention to, that magazine.

 

[Redeye]

You really believe this will be the end of it?

Fortune magazine trumps the US populace?

I can't even imagine how many hundreds of people might even read, let alone pay attention to, that magazine.

I think so. It demolishes the whole thing pretty soundly, and we only really need to worry about the people who actually care about the whole thing. Darrell Issa's already basically got his tail between his legs when he had to admit he had no evidence of any sort of cover-up or anything else.

One of the better commentators I've seen on the whole thing surmises that it was aimed to draw President Obama into a debate about guns before the election, and it appears to have failed. The whole story has been based upon a characteristic misrepresentation of the events, and actually serves as a scathing rebuke of gun laws in the US potentially.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I was waiting for the reasonable explanation of F&F, and this seems to be it.  Now all that remains is puzzlement over why the administration is disinclined to support the investigation to properly get to the bottom of it and determine who is responsible, and what disciplinary action (if any) needs to be applied.  If there's no foul, there's no need to stall.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I think so. It demolishes the whole thing pretty soundly, and we only really need to worry about the people who actually care about the whole thing. Darrell Issa's already basically got his tail between his legs when he had to admit he had no evidence of any sort of cover-up or anything else.

One of the better commentators I've seen on the whole thing surmises that it was aimed to draw President Obama into a debate about guns before the election, and it appears to have failed. The whole story has been based upon a characteristic misrepresentation of the events, and actually serves as a scathing rebuke of gun laws in the US potentially.

Or its a total whitewash.  ;D

 

[Redeye]

I was waiting for the reasonable explanation of F&F, and this seems to be it.  Now all that remains is puzzlement over why the administration is disinclined to support the investigation to properly get to the bottom of it and determine who is responsible, and what disciplinary action (if any) needs to be applied.  If there's no foul, there's no need to stall.

Maybe they didn't have the whole story straight themselves, wanted to duck the quagmire? That's my best guess.

 

[Haletown]

Darrell Issa's already basically got his tail between his legs when he had to admit he had no evidence of any sort of cover-up or anything else.

The whole point is that there is no "evidence" because Holder has refused to release the documents - or at least documents that aren't hundreds of pages of blacked out text.  The issue is refusal to provide the missing evidence.

Holder is in contempt of Congress.  Congress is supreme and Holder is refusing to cooperate with the Committee's investigation.


Your contention that Issa has his tail between his legs is fatuously incorrect and plumbs new depths of ludicrous.

 

[Redeye]

The whole point is that there is no "evidence" because Holder has refused to release the documents - or at least documents that aren't hundreds of pages of blacked out text.  The issue is refusal to provide the missing evidence.

Holder is in contempt of Congress.  Congress is supreme and Holder is refusing to cooperate with the Committee's investigation.


Your contention that Issa has his tail between his legs is fatuously incorrect and plumbs new depths of ludicrous.

Certainly read that way when I read how he admitted that he had no evidence of any sort of cover up, and the investigation published by Fortune basically finishes the whole thing off.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Becca Watkins, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform spokeswoman, has issued the following statement:

“Fortune’s story is a fantasy made up almost entirely from the accounts of individuals involved in the reckless tactics that took place in Operation Fast and Furious. It contains factual errors – including the false statement that Chairman Issa has called for Attorney General Holder’s resignation – and multiple distortions. It also hides critical information from readers – including a report in the Wall Street Journal – indicating that its primary sources may be facing criminal charges. Congressional staff gave Fortune Magazine numerous examples of false statements made by the story’s primary source and the magazine did not dispute this information. It did not, however, explain this material to its readers. The one point of agreement the Committee has with this story is its emphasis on the role Justice Department prosecutors, not just ATF agents, played in guns being transferred to drug cartels in Mexico. The allegations made in the story have been examined and rejected by congressional Republicans, Democrats, and the Justice Department.”

 

 

[Haletown]

Certainly read that way when I read how he admitted that he had no evidence of any sort of cover up, and the investigation published by Fortune basically finishes the whole thing off.

Oh boy, Fortune magazine!  A story written by a Journalist!  Must be truebecause journalists are smart little critters and never make a mistake  or torque a story.

The idea he has no"evidence" and is just on a political fishing expedition is very, very thin gruel that appears to be a paper thin attempt to divert attention away from what is really happening.

The issue is contempt of Congress for Halder's  REFUSAL to cooperate in the investigation.  Issa is simply trying to find out what happened. Holder is trying to prevent him from finding out. 

The Executive Branch is not superior to the Congress.

The Executive Branch answers TO the Congress.

Holder is acting like some royal Duke or whatever, acting like he is above the Constitution, above the Law, above the Congress.

That is why he will be the first AG in US history to be found in contempt of Congress.

 

[a_majoor]

A look at the "news" surrounding "Fast and Furious". The timing of the article is very interesting, coming out just prior to the contempt vote in Congress. What is even more interesting is the way the articel totally ignores not only the Attorny General's own admission, but also the sworn testimony of ATF agents:

http://bearsrant.blogspot.ca/2012/06/mainstream-medias-reporting-of-fast.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ABearsRant+%28A+Bear%27s+Rant%29

Fast & Furious - CNN's Soledad O'Brien Rides Again

On the eve of an historic vote by a congressional committee that could find the Attorney General of the United States in contempt of congress, a Fortune Magazine article has been published that challenges the entire narrative of the what has come to be called Fast & Furious.

It is alleged that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) engaged in a series of ‘gunwalking’ sting operations during the period 2006-2011. The program, was intended to reduce the flow of illegal weapons into Mexico and the hands of the drug cartels by by allowing some weapons to be moved (or walked) by gun runners. It is alleged that the ATF allowed gun runners and straw buyers to purchase weapons and traffic them across the border. This is called gunwalking.

Ultimately, weapons did fall into the hands of members of various cartels and two American border patrol agents were killed, as were a number of Mexican citizens. Some of these weapons were found at the scene of the killings.

Congress, led by the Republican side of the house, has been investigating Fast & Furious, demanding documents and grilling Eric Holder, the Attorney General of the United States about the program. Democrats have accused Republicans of engaging in a witch hunt for political reasons. Republican supporters have accused the administration of a secret plan to take away American’s right to own guns.

Media commentators and politicians on both sides have had a field day slinging accusations back and forth and even the National Rifle Association (NRA) has jumped in to the fray. The NRA announced it would give any Democratic congressmen ‘a black mark’ if they didn’t vote to find the Attorney General in contempt of Congress. Personally, I believe he is in contempt but I think the NRA should put the intimidation tactics away. They have no place in a democracy.

Now, a well-researched article by Fortune Magazine questions many of the assertions made about the program and that has touched off a firestorm in the mainstream media (MSM).

As can be expected and even predicted, the MSM on the left have seized on this article as a vindication of the Obama Administration while those on the right dismiss it as factually wrong or irrelevant. The reporting, in most cases, is so abjectly biased on both sides that it fails, by any standard of measurement to even imitate journalism.

Martin Bashir went so far as to suggest that the Congressional investigation had nothing to do with a dead American border agent. It was all about a conspiracy to take away guns from Americans. It appears that no spin is too absurd for the mainstream media to support their particular bias.

Nowhere was this more evident than on CNN where Soledad O’Brien once again proved that a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Ms O’brien, who is well-known for her lack of objectivity and ability to engage in anything even remotely resembling critical thinking, interviewed Katherine Eban of Fortune about her article on Fast & Furious. During that interview, Ms Eban restated, as she did in her article that five ATF agents told her that gunwalking had not occurred. Ms O’Brien played a video clip of Eric Holder, Attorney General of the United States, testifying under oath that in fact, it had.

Subsequently, Ms O’Brien interviewed Rep. John Mica of the House Committee investigating Fast & Furious. It was a mess. Ms O’Brien was less interested in uncovering facts than she was about using the Fortune article to discredit the committee’s investigation, the results of which might hurt President Obama’s reelection campaign. She clung to her bias like a fat kid clinging to a Big Mac and it was painful to watch.

Perhaps the most absurd moment came when she demanded to know from Rep. Mica, what evidence the committee had that gunwalking had actually taken place when five ATF agents denied that it had. The question was so stupid; I had to remind myself to breathe. She had just played a video clip of the Attorney General admitting under oath that it had. Surely to God, that admission, in and of itself, should be enough grounds for the committee to continue its investigation. Even Soledad O'Brien should be able to figure that out but to give her the benefit of the doubt, perhaps she wasn't paying attention when her 'people' aired the clip.

That is what now passes for journalism today.

I don’t know the truth about Fast & Furious and I suspect there aren’t too many who do. Clearly, people like Soledad O’Brien and Martin Bashir don’t either. They get their information from the media (or in Ms O’Brien’s case, Wikipedia) like the rest of us.

Ms Eban’s article for Fortune raises serious questions that need to be answered. She has presented facts uncovered during her six-month investigation that challenge some of the narrative put forward so far about Fast & Furious. Whether or not those facts will ultimately prove to be the whole story remains to be seen but her article  actually supports the need for the continuation of the congressional investigation.

Instead of grasping at the Fortune article as a vindication of the Obama administration and a condemnation of the Congressional committee, why aren't Soledad O’Brien and other members of the MSM asking questions like; if the ATF agents are correct, why did the Attorney General lie to Congress? If in fact the administration did not engage in activity that led to the deaths of two American border agents and a number of Mexican citizens, why is it refusing to hand over documents about the case? Assuming that Ms Eban's article is factually correct and that there was never an intention for the guns to fall into criminal hands, how did it happen? What were the causes of such careless inefficiency? Who is responsible?

None of these questions are being asked nor is the MSM asking why the administration is working overtime to prevent the release of documents related to Fast & Furious.

Less than 10% of the existing documents related to the Fast & Furious program have been turned over to Congress. The President has invoked executive privilege (again) and the Attorney General faces contempt of Congress motion. That seems a little extreme for an administration that believe it did nothing wrong. One would think that if there was nothing to hide, those documents would already be on their way to the committee by Zippy Delivery.

But they are not and it is the contradictions about Fast & Furious that are the elephant in the room, an elephant being all but ignored by the mainstream media.

Ms Eban has written that five agents told her that the ATF did not engage in gunwalking but another ATF agent, John Dodson testified that he and other agents were ordered to observe the activities of gun smugglers but not to intervene.

“Over the course of the next 10 months that I was involved
in this operation, we monitored as they purchased hand guns,
AK-47variants, and .50 caliber rifles almost daily.
Rather than conduct any enforcement actions, we took notes, we
recorded observations, we tracked movements of these individuals
for a short time after their purchases, but nothing more.
Knowing all the while, just days after these purchases, the guns
that we saw these individuals buy would begin turning up at
crime scenes in the United States and Mexico,
we still did nothing. ...

“I cannot begin to think of how the risk of letting guns fall into
the hands of known criminals could possibly advance any
legitimate law enforcement interest.”

- from the transcript of Agent Dodson's testimony before the House Committee


So which ATF agents are telling the truth? Who do we believe? Personally, I don’t know but neither do the MSM. Instead of trying to ferret out the truth, the entertainment news anchors simply toss out snippets of information that support their bias, their politics or simply their inability to actually act like journalists.

Whatever the truth about Fast & Furious, much of the mainstream media’s coverage and analysis of it, like so much else it purports to cover, is a disgrace. It is difficult to remember that American journalism was created and nurtured by people like Edward R. Murrow, Walter Conkrite and Mike Wallace.

If the shallow and biased commentary of today is the best that freedom of the press buys, it is definitely overpriced and we are not getting our money’s worth. With great freedom comes great responsibility and the news media has an obligation to report the news objectively, fully and to hold government to account. They do not exist to act as publicity arms of one political party or another.

MSNBC, Fox News, CNN and all the rest would do well to remember that although I doubt there are sufficient real journalists working for any of them anymore to ensure that will happen.

 

[cupper]

Looks like the health care debate will rear it's head again and take a major role in the election, now that SCOTUS has upheld the Affordable Care Act.

As for F & F, the documents in question were held back pending possible criminal prosecution, and as such are deemed to be privileged, and Issa knows this. But as part of the self proclaimed GOP effort to make Obama a 1 termer, he has made a witch hunt out of a conspiracy theory generated by right-wing crack-pots. 

 

[Brad Sallows]

So what is the alternative?  Nothing to see, move on, no names, no pack drill?

Scooter Libby was convicted for false statements and obstruction despite not being the actual leaker of Plame's name.  What would be appropriate for the people who
a) Conceived and authorized F&F,
b) Executed F&F, and
c) Misled or obstructed efforts to get to the bottom of F&F?

Sadusky: "Someone's got to go to prison, Ben".

 

[a_majoor]

Most conservative web sites are up in arms about the decision, but two threads are emerging from that side of the debate:

1. By defining the individual mandate as a tax, another avenue of approach has been opened for opponents of the Democrat Party (The individual mandate will be one of the largest tax increases in peacetime history); and,

2. The Court has limited the reach of the Commerce Clause.


As an ironic counterpoint, since the House has already voted to repeal Obamacare in 2010, they can now finish the job by eliminating the individual mandate as part of a tax reform bill in January 2013...

 

[cupper]

1. By defining the individual mandate as a tax, another avenue of approach has been opened for opponents of the Democrat Party (The individual mandate will be one of the largest tax increases in peacetime history); and,

But it leaves Romney open to the same argument, that he raised taxes as Governor, is spite of his claims otherwise.

NOt sure if this is good for Romney to attack ACA, which is conveniently modeled on his own Mass. laws.

 

[Redeye]

But it leaves Romney open to the same argument, that he raised taxes as Governor, is spite of his claims otherwise.

NOt sure if this is good for Romney to attack ACA, which is conveniently modeled on his own Mass. laws.

Agreed. I think Obama's only to happy to draw Romney into a fight over healthcare for that very reason. Their plans for Romney seem to focus on highlighting Romney as a liar and a flip-flopper, and there's no better issue to do so on than healthcare, I'd wager.

I was surprised by the decision, but I think that Roberts made the right decision from what I've read of it - just the summary - but the argument makes a fair bit of sense. Suffice it to say, this is a pretty massive win for the President and will play handily in the run up to the election. And while they're at it, voters can ask House Representatives why they're going to waste a bunch more time and taxpayers' money on another pointless "repeal" vote.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Obama won't have to draw Romney into anything; Romney is taking it head-on by vowing to work for repeal and replacement. 

 

[Redeye]

Obama won't have to draw Romney into anything; Romney is taking it head-on by vowing to work for repeal and replacement.

Replace it with what, exactly?! I don't recall seeing any coherent plan, and that still allows Obama to thrash him over the fact that it's modeled on his own plan.

 

[cupper]

Replace it with what, exactly?! I don't recall seeing any coherent plan, and that still allows Obama to thrash him over the fact that it's modeled on his own plan.

Apparently they will replace it with Romneycare / Obamacare, without the mandate / tax / penalty / whatever the hell it is now.

Romney stated his replacement will ensure people with existing conditions cannot be rejected, young people will be able to will be allowed to stay on parent's insurance, limit the amount insurance companies can increase premiums, closing the medicare part D donut hole, and many of the other portions of Obamacare that are already in place. (In other words, pandering to keep votes of those that have already benefited).

But if he continues to call Obamacare constitutional but still bad policy, he is going to eventually have to explain how it was good policy when he brought it in, but bad now. How is it good at individual state level, but bad nationally. He will never be able to square that circle.