U.S. Annexing Canada (split fm Liberal Minority thread)

[QV]

Trump himself. Literally just read what he’s actually saying. He’s not being ambiguous.

Trump threatens 'economic force' to make Canada 51st state

U.S. president-elect Donald Trump escalated his remarks about making Canada part of the U.S. on Tuesday. Find out more.

financialpost.com

Brings a whole new urgency to demonstrate we are a serious country capable of governing ourselves and pulling our weight, doesn’t it?

This position is directly due to Canada handing its sovereignty over to the US via defence and security coattail riding.

Everyone is whining about Trump, the real problem is Trudeau and the successive Canadian governments acting like serious matters (defence) are optional while making optional matters ($10/day daycare) a priority.

 

[Quirky]

the real problem is Trudeau and the successive Canadians governments acting like serious matters (defence) are optional while making optional matters ($10/day daycare) a priority.

Canadians were always under the assumption that the US would defend us. We don't live in that world anymore.

 

[Remius]

Brings a whole new urgency to demonstrate we are a serious country capable of governing ourselves and pulling our weight, doesn’t it?

When he keeps the tariffs in place despite what we do and keeps asking for more it won’t matter what we demonstrate. Trolling was funny for a bit. Now it’s time to threaten back by turning off the lights and oil until tariffs come off.

This position is directly due to Canada handing its sovereignty over to the US via defence and security coattail riding.

To an extent. It’s also a result of a POTUS who clearly does not understand how integrated the economies already are.

Everyone is whining about Trump, the real problem is Trudeau and the successive Canadian governments acting like serious matters (defence) are optional while making optional matters ($10/day daycare) a priority.

Your position on this is very clear. Maga messiah over country.

 

[suffolkowner]

spending 3% of GDP on the military doesnt lessen the impact of tariffs. We can assume that the issues are linked but are they?

 

[Navy_Pete]

Brings a whole new urgency to demonstrate we are a serious country capable of governing ourselves and pulling our weight, doesn’t it?

This position is directly due to Canada handing its sovereignty over to the US via defence and security coattail riding.

Everyone is whining about Trump, the real problem is Trudeau and the successive Canadian governments acting like serious matters (defence) are optional while making optional matters ($10/day daycare) a priority.

That's been basically the Canadian stance since the Berlin wall fell.

It's also hard to argue logic with someone that seems to legitimately think a trade deficit is the US subsidizing Canada, and that tariffs with it's biggest trading partner won't seriously hurt both countries. The impact of tariffs on petroleum products and electricity on Americans is pretty obvious, but they also buy a lot of lumber and other raw materials that they turn into things like houses, military equipment, electronics and all kinds of other things.

Globally this approach will also make the US a bit of a pariah, and all the countries with trade agreements that are suddenly getting tariffed are going to remember that, and for companies if they rearrange their supply chains unlikely to go back to the US later, so lot of long term downsides for bullying people internationally and being an unreliable partner.

Maybe if the tariffs crush the Canadian economy, we'll get closer to 2% if we maintain current spending just because our GDP drops.

 

[brihard]

Brings a whole new urgency to demonstrate we are a serious country capable of governing ourselves and pulling our weight, doesn’t it?

This position is directly due to Canada handing its sovereignty over to the US via defence and security coattail riding.

Everyone is whining about Trump, the real problem is Trudeau and the successive Canadian governments acting like serious matters (defence) are optional while making optional matters ($10/day daycare) a priority.

There’s a huge delta between the U.S. ‘defending’ us despite us being deficient in our contributions, and outright threats to coerce political annexation by going in the economic offence. The latter is what is happening. Trump is literally talking about coercive economic attacks to get us to cede our sovereignty. What do you think “economic force”, “25% tariffs”, and “51st state” mean? He’s saying this in the context of a broader pattern of threats including not ruling out military force to conquer Panama and Greenland.

Any Canadian can no longer be both loyalty to Canada AND support Trump’s positions vis a vis our two country’s relations. He has made it one or the other. Having been previously loyal to Canada through, e.g., military service, does not exempt any Canadian from having to reassess and reaffirm their loyalty in the face of the changing facts and these new blatant threats. Trump is committing himself to a policy stance that will deliberately harm Canadians and our economy to try to force us to become American. Even if some or much of it is bluster, these are not the actions of a respectful friend and ally, but of a bully that’s on its way to being an adversary.

 

[QV]

Several of you can be quite ignorant in your insinuations of "traitor". We can discuss these issues without emotion.

I liken this issue to the teenager who keeps refusing to clean their room, eventually there will be consequences. Canadians are the teenager and we are at the consequence phase. Drastic adjustments are necessary. Is Canada going to get serious and what does that look like?

I do not believe Canada is going to become the 51st state. But if that is actually on the table, an economic union (similar to the EU) with Canada maintaining it's sovereignty somehow starts to look like a less worse option (sounds a lot like Trumps negotiating style). What does an economic union look like?

If all you want to do is crow about how those wanting to discuss this are not loyal to their country, then you are no better than the likes of Trudeau and his post-national cohort with no core values who have brought this country to it's lowest level and invited this very situation upon us.

 

[Quirky]

Several of you can be quite ignorant in your insinuations of "traitor"

Irrelevant discussions on random internet forums are serious business don'tchaknow.

 

[suffolkowner]

Several of you can be quite ignorant in your insinuations of "traitor". We can discuss these issues without emotion.

I liken this issue to the teenager who keeps refusing to clean their room, eventually there will be consequences. Canadians are the teenager and we are at the consequence phase. Drastic adjustments are necessary. Is Canada going to get serious and what does that look like?

I do not believe Canada is going to become the 51st state. But if that is actually on the table, an economic union (similar to the EU) with Canada maintaining it's sovereignty somehow starts to look like a less worse option (sounds a lot like Trumps negotiating style). What does an economic union look like?

If all you want to do is crow about how those wanting to discuss this are not loyal to their country, then you are no better than the likes of Trudeau and his post-national cohort with no core values who have brought this country to it's lowest level and invited this very situation upon us.

or Trump just woke up and decided he wanted Greenland, Canada and Panama?

so your plan of opposition to the Trudeaus post nation state world is to create a post nation state with the US?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Gun owners should have to reafirm their loyalty to the government when they line up to drop off their assault weapons (and .22cal plinkers)

 

[ArmyRick]

Any Canadian can no longer be both loyalty to Canada AND support Trump’s positions

Pardon?

I agree with Trump that we have to get a grip on our border (long overdue), Sort out our justice system to back up border security and get real with national defence. On this, Trump is right.

And yet, I have ZERO fucking desires for us to be an American state. I don't want it.

We need to act really fast, with well thought out measures by a COMPETENT government (Not Trudeau or Liberal) that gets Canada a win, keeps our sovereignty and improves our reputation and standing internationally.

 

[QV]

or Trump just woke up and decided he wanted Greenland, Canada and Panama?

so your plan of opposition to the Trudeaus post nation state world is to create a post nation state with the US?

My plan? It seems to me that idea has been pushed around by others in the media (ie; not QV). I can hardly take credit for it. But I'd like to talk about it... is that ok with you?

Or would you rather we shove our heads right up our asses and cry "oh Canada!" while we get screwed in all directions?

 

[suffolkowner]

My plan? It seems to me that idea has been pushed around by others in the media (ie; not QV). I can hardly take credit for it. But I'd like to talk about it... is that ok with you?

Or would you rather we shove our heads right up our asses and cry "oh Canada!" while we get screwed in all directions?

just seems ironic

Im not restricting you in any way

 

[Jarnhamar]

I agree with Trump that we have to get a grip on our border (long overdue), Sort out our justice system to back up border security and get real with national defence. On this, Trump is right.

For the most part I can't stand hearing him or reading his crap.

I thought his annexation crap was funny at first but it's quickly becoming just annoying. True to form, he's over doing it. I can just feel the twitter bros beside him egging him on.

Canadians should be embarrassed that it's taking obnoxious trash talk from Trump for our government to start making good on their promises. We're not without culpability getting to this point.

 

[Remius]

Irrelevant discussions on random internet forums are serious business don'tchaknow.

Very few people here take what you have to say about our country seriously.

And yet you are still here like everyone else.

 

[Lumber]

I liken this issue to the teenager who keeps refusing to clean their room, eventually there will be consequences. Canadians are the teenager and we are at the consequence phase. Drastic adjustments are necessary. Is Canada going to get serious and what does that look like?

Wrong. This a terrible metaphor, and demonstrates a disparaging view of Canada. We are not a teenager to Trump's "parent". We are an independent, sovereign country. A more apt metaphor would be that we own a house that resides near, but is not a member of, an HOA, and the president of the HOA is demanding we change our front yard because it doesn't meet their "aesthetic".

 

[brihard]

Pardon?

I agree with Trump that we have to get a grip on our border (long overdue), Sort out our justice system to back up border security and get real with national defence. On this, Trump is right.

And yet, I have ZERO fucking desires for us to be an American state. I don't want it.

We need to act really fast, with well thought out measures by a COMPETENT government (Not Trudeau or Liberal) that gets Canada a win, keeps our sovereignty and improves our reputation and standing internationally.

I mean exactly what I said, but you can relax and take a breath. Since you have no desire for Canada to become part of the U.S., and since you don’t condone or make apologetics for Trump’s threats to our sovereignty or economic security, you aren’t the subject of what I was saying. It’s fine to want better national defense and border security. I want those things too. I actually pretty much entirely agree with everything you said in the reply I quoted.

Wanting to see those policies is one thing, and it’s completely fine. Aligning oneself with Trump to the point of condoning his outright threats to Canada’s economic security, or promoting ceding some of our sovereignty to the US is disloyal to Canada. You aren’t doing that; I’m not going after you.Nor QV, he has, at best, a bit of a misguided ‘roll over and take it’ approach on this, but seems to still have Canada’s sovereignty at heart, even if his view of it is more flexible than mine. Quirky has; he has shown active disloyalty to Canada in his posts on this site and I won’t be shy about calling that. He claims to no longer be CAF and I hope that’s the case.

There are absolutely some modest number of Canadians happy to line up for their thirty pieces of silver though- and the coins will have eagles on them.

@QV - my apologies, my reply was a bit ambiguous and left room to interpret it as I was attacking your personal loyalty. I am not; my comment flowed from one thing to another but I should have made that absolutely clear given the gravity of an accusation like that. I replied to what you said and then continued the conversation further along a thread but I ought to have made that “ok, next point” more clear. I’ll wear that, and I’d be pissed if I thought someone was attacking my loyalty to Canada too.

 

[QV]

Wrong. This a terrible metaphor, and demonstrates a disparaging view of Canada. We are not a teenager to Trump's "parent". We are an independent, sovereign country. A more apt metaphor would be that we own a house that resides near, but is not a member of, an HOA, and the president of the HOA is demanding we change our front yard because it doesn't meet their "aesthetic".

You disparage security of both our nations with the comparison to simple "aesthetics". And I'd argue that kind of limp attitude to defence and security is why we are in the situation to begin with.

We could do metaphors all day. How about this one: we own land next to another landowner, we started a brush fire and let it get out of control. It now threatens the neighbor's land, and the pissed neighbor is taking action to protect itself that we don't approve of.

See how dumb this can get?

Do we want to talk about Can/US relations and the potential options that would strengthen both? The status quo COA is no longer an option.

 

[suffolkowner]

We'll wait it out. Give up some access to the US on dairy. Buy some more tanks or something. Make a few announcements. Not much else we can do. Tariffs come on we'll retaliate on oil and hydro and some specific state ones. Again not much we can do. It would take years just to negotiate a deal and by that time Trump will be gone or getting his syphilis induced dementia treated

 

[Jarnhamar]

There are absolutely some modest number of Canadians happy to line up for their thirty pieces of silver though- and the coins will have eagles on them.

Like Randy Boissonnault except he was wearing the eagles