U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread
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They have a moral obligation to full fill on the contracts and thus should have been made to honour.
So far there has been nothing but lame excuses to dodge there contract and try to blame everybody but themselves. :crybaby: :
Maybe if they keep smoking; there dope ; it justify there reasoning to stay in Canada. : :-[ :boring:
I have not seen; one so call educate wonder that will take responsibility for there action by trying to weasel out by playing word games to justify there reasoning.
No matter how you cut it; they are still deserter from there armed forces (USA) and hiding in Canada.
Canadian government on the right track and ship them back to the good ole USA.
Would the Canada government cut the same attitude to a Canada Armed Forces individual also.
I think not and he would get a pretty rough ride from his comrades also.
They would give him the boot.
So far there has been nothing but lame excuses to dodge there contract and try to blame everybody but themselves. :crybaby: :
Maybe if they keep smoking; there dope ; it justify there reasoning to stay in Canada. :
:-[ :boring:I have not seen; one so call educate wonder that will take responsibility for there action by trying to weasel out by playing word games to justify there reasoning.
No matter how you cut it; they are still deserter from there armed forces (USA) and hiding in Canada.
Canadian government on the right track and ship them back to the good ole USA.
Would the Canada government cut the same attitude to a Canada Armed Forces individual also.
I think not and he would get a pretty rough ride from his comrades also.
They would give him the boot.
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Another one gone, or will be gone by the 27th of Jan: http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090107/rivera_hearing_090107/20090107?hub=Toronto
Good riddance!!!!
Good riddance!!!!
FormerHorseGuard
Sr. Member
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i think these people should be sent home to finish their contracts out. i wonder would the USA accept one of our soldiers with open arms if he or she would go south to avoid duty in a war zone. you sign the paper knowing the fact you might be sent to a war . sign the paper, deal with the cause and effect, taking the pay in peace time is the benefit of taking the money in war time.
feel sorry for the kid born here to a mom who cannot live with her decesions......
feel sorry for the kid born here to a mom who cannot live with her decesions......
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When is the media in this country going to get it's terminology straight? A "war resister" stands up for their principles, refuses to deploy, and faces the consequences of their actions. Ergo, "resist". These people folded their tents and fled into the night. They are deserters, full stop.
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Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Toronto Sun
No sympathy for her
Hard to bleed for U.S. mom who should have known better than to join army
By MICHELE MANDEL
She is the first known female Iraq war resister to have fled to Canada, but Kimberley Rivera is hardly the poster girl for a movement that argues all American army defectors are conscientious objectors who deserve asylum.
Fact is, I've had some sympathy for the estimated 200 soldiers who have travelled north to escape deployment to Iraq -- men who objected on ideological grounds, who came to believe what millions of others would as well -- that despite their president's assurances to the contrary, there were no weapons of mass destruction, no ties that linked Saddam Hussein to al-Qaida, no reason to be part of a war unsanctioned by the United Nations and opposed by most nations, including Canada.
Like the majority of Canadians -- 64% in the last poll -- and a non-binding motion passed by Parliament last June, I think they should be allowed to stay.
But try as I might, I can't drum up much empathy for this young Texas mom of three who was ordered deported on Jan. 27 by an immigration judge yesterday.
Rivera should have known what she was getting herself into when she went into an army recruiting office in 2006 and signed up for active duty. By that time, most everyone was aware of the non-existent nukes, the quagmire of violence and the war's vague underpinnings. No one promised it was going to be pretty or safe or easy to miss her young family.
But with just a high-school diploma and two little children at the time to support with her husband, Rivera concluded that a career in the army still beat her photo lab job at Wal-Mart. "I wanted my life to be better for my kids."
Her husband, Mario, insists the recruiter promised that she wouldn't be sent to Iraq and even if she were, it wouldn't be to a combat zone. "That's why he let me sign," the 26-year-old says, cradling their Canadian-born daughter Katie, born six weeks ago.
The Americans are running out of soldiers, forcing units to redeploy over and over again, and she wasn't going to be sent to Iraq?
Even Rivera wasn't that naive.
"In my mind, I knew I was probably going to Iraq," she admits after the rest of the media have packed up their cameras and left the news conference at the office of the War Resisters Support Campaign. "I was very gung ho. I wanted to make this a career."
Her goal was to be a warrant officer but when she didn't score high enough on her entrance exams, she was relegated to gate guard duty when her unit was deployed to Iraq in October 2006. After just three months, when she was home on leave, Rivera decided she'd seen enough and wasn't going back to serve out her remaining 12 months.
So what horrors did she see that led to her desertion?
Her blue eyes slide away into the past. Yet the first thing she offers is her problem with phoning home. After initially being allowed to call her husband every day, staying on the free line for at least an hour, the military later cracked down and limited calls to just 15 minutes.
Ah, the rigours of war.
The Texas native then speaks of her sadness at losing soldiers whom she befriended who didn't come back to the base and her discomfort at hearing the disturbing boasts of those who did.
But what haunts her most of all is the face of a terrified Iraqi girl who was shaking with terror as she accompanied her father to the base. "I was seeing my little girl," Rivera explains.
That look of fear changed her life, she says, and her entire opinion about what Americans were doing to Iraqi civilians. It's an epiphany that hardly seems clear but she insists you had to be there. "I don't think you fully understand what you're getting into until you're actually in it."
Still, I'd argue that coming under intense mortar fire weighed a tad more heavily on her decision not to go back. "There was the stress of not knowing if you're going to live," she admits. "I felt I was just waiting to be killed off."
So after learning about the War Resisters Support Campaign from the Internet, she and her husband hightailed it to Canada in 2007 with their son Christian, now 6, and daughter Rebecca, now 4, and settled in Parkdale where they've been overwhelmed by a welcoming community.
Now with their new baby, they are praying to stay.
If returned to the States, Rivera knows she faces prison. Robin Long, the first war resister deported back to the U.S., is currently serving a 15-month sentence. There are four others facing deportation this month alone.
So while they are hoping their new incoming president may declare an amnesty for military deserters, Rivera would still rather stay in Canada.
But on a day when we lost yet another brave Canadian soldier who did not shirk the responsibility he had willingly signed on for, it was hard to put out the welcome mat for someone who did.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2009/01/08/7953646-sun.html
No sympathy for her
Hard to bleed for U.S. mom who should have known better than to join army
By MICHELE MANDEL
She is the first known female Iraq war resister to have fled to Canada, but Kimberley Rivera is hardly the poster girl for a movement that argues all American army defectors are conscientious objectors who deserve asylum.
Fact is, I've had some sympathy for the estimated 200 soldiers who have travelled north to escape deployment to Iraq -- men who objected on ideological grounds, who came to believe what millions of others would as well -- that despite their president's assurances to the contrary, there were no weapons of mass destruction, no ties that linked Saddam Hussein to al-Qaida, no reason to be part of a war unsanctioned by the United Nations and opposed by most nations, including Canada.
Like the majority of Canadians -- 64% in the last poll -- and a non-binding motion passed by Parliament last June, I think they should be allowed to stay.
But try as I might, I can't drum up much empathy for this young Texas mom of three who was ordered deported on Jan. 27 by an immigration judge yesterday.
Rivera should have known what she was getting herself into when she went into an army recruiting office in 2006 and signed up for active duty. By that time, most everyone was aware of the non-existent nukes, the quagmire of violence and the war's vague underpinnings. No one promised it was going to be pretty or safe or easy to miss her young family.
But with just a high-school diploma and two little children at the time to support with her husband, Rivera concluded that a career in the army still beat her photo lab job at Wal-Mart. "I wanted my life to be better for my kids."
Her husband, Mario, insists the recruiter promised that she wouldn't be sent to Iraq and even if she were, it wouldn't be to a combat zone. "That's why he let me sign," the 26-year-old says, cradling their Canadian-born daughter Katie, born six weeks ago.
The Americans are running out of soldiers, forcing units to redeploy over and over again, and she wasn't going to be sent to Iraq?
Even Rivera wasn't that naive.
"In my mind, I knew I was probably going to Iraq," she admits after the rest of the media have packed up their cameras and left the news conference at the office of the War Resisters Support Campaign. "I was very gung ho. I wanted to make this a career."
Her goal was to be a warrant officer but when she didn't score high enough on her entrance exams, she was relegated to gate guard duty when her unit was deployed to Iraq in October 2006. After just three months, when she was home on leave, Rivera decided she'd seen enough and wasn't going back to serve out her remaining 12 months.
So what horrors did she see that led to her desertion?
Her blue eyes slide away into the past. Yet the first thing she offers is her problem with phoning home. After initially being allowed to call her husband every day, staying on the free line for at least an hour, the military later cracked down and limited calls to just 15 minutes.
Ah, the rigours of war.
The Texas native then speaks of her sadness at losing soldiers whom she befriended who didn't come back to the base and her discomfort at hearing the disturbing boasts of those who did.
But what haunts her most of all is the face of a terrified Iraqi girl who was shaking with terror as she accompanied her father to the base. "I was seeing my little girl," Rivera explains.
That look of fear changed her life, she says, and her entire opinion about what Americans were doing to Iraqi civilians. It's an epiphany that hardly seems clear but she insists you had to be there. "I don't think you fully understand what you're getting into until you're actually in it."
Still, I'd argue that coming under intense mortar fire weighed a tad more heavily on her decision not to go back. "There was the stress of not knowing if you're going to live," she admits. "I felt I was just waiting to be killed off."
So after learning about the War Resisters Support Campaign from the Internet, she and her husband hightailed it to Canada in 2007 with their son Christian, now 6, and daughter Rebecca, now 4, and settled in Parkdale where they've been overwhelmed by a welcoming community.
Now with their new baby, they are praying to stay.
If returned to the States, Rivera knows she faces prison. Robin Long, the first war resister deported back to the U.S., is currently serving a 15-month sentence. There are four others facing deportation this month alone.
So while they are hoping their new incoming president may declare an amnesty for military deserters, Rivera would still rather stay in Canada.
But on a day when we lost yet another brave Canadian soldier who did not shirk the responsibility he had willingly signed on for, it was hard to put out the welcome mat for someone who did.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/michele_mandel/2009/01/08/7953646-sun.html
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We just had Our Boys return home yesterday from Afghanistan: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/suffolk/ny-webfite0812339156jan07,0,4749729.story
The Company Commander is the father of 8 children and has served in Iraq as an Infantry Platoon Leader on previous tour (OIF II). Many of these Men were Veterans of OIF I, & III. One Brother is a 2 time OEF , 2 time OIF vet with 82nd Abn. Why Kimberly Rivera should engender any sympathy is beyond me. I hope she retruns home to the justice she richly deserves
The Company Commander is the father of 8 children and has served in Iraq as an Infantry Platoon Leader on previous tour (OIF II). Many of these Men were Veterans of OIF I, & III. One Brother is a 2 time OEF , 2 time OIF vet with 82nd Abn. Why Kimberly Rivera should engender any sympathy is beyond me. I hope she retruns home to the justice she richly deserves
She join up for the benefits and then realize the demand being a soldier ;she decide to run. :They need a better process to weed out ones that should never be allow in the first place. :crybaby: :'(
The courts don't go by emotion ; only by legal president or statue.
The war resisters (deserters) have no choice because of there legal obligation that they sign and sworn an oath to there country.
They are trying to manipulation the politic system to get off the hook and it has failed.
Canadian law will force them; to go back to the USA and face there law officials
Being a women they will give her less time than a man in jail.
The only one that benefit was the lawyers made a killing on this ; and waste of taxpayers money and resources in keeping them in Canada.
They should of been bar from entering Canada and apply from the USA.
As the Immigration Minister stated that they were not good candidates and waste time and energy for real applicants to come to Canada.
Suggest the so call war resisters pack there bags and do the right thing and go HOME.
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desertfox115 said:
They need a better process to weed out ones that should never be allow in the first place. :crybaby: :'(
The courts don't go by emotion ; only by legal president or statue.
The war resisters (deserters) have no choice because of there legal obligation that they sign and sworn an oath to there country.
They are trying to manipulation the politic system to get off the hook and it has failed.
Canadian law will force them; to go back to the USA and face there law officials
Being a women they will give her less time than a man in jail.
The only one that benefit was the lawyers made a killing on this ; and waste of taxpayers money and resources in keeping them in Canada.
They should of been bar from entering Canada and apply from the USA.
As the Immigration Minister stated that they were not good candidates and waste time and energy for real applicants to come to Canada.
Suggest the so call war resisters pack there bags and do the right thing and go HOME.
I'll be honest with you. Kimberly Rivera will never see the inside of US Disciplinary Barracks, Ft. Leavenworth(Something she richly deserves). There are no longer any Post Stockades and even Charlies Chicken Farms (Correctional Custody Facility) have been closed down.
She will be held at her units base and be administratively separated. She wont recieve a Dishonorable Discharge, but a General Discharge with standard 6 month clause. Personally I'd like to see her and the others Breaking Rocks on a Chain Gang, but it isnt gonna happen. I've yet to hear of a Deserter getting serious time at Hard Labor
I see the deserters organization is crying foul that the immigrantion minister was not be fair and optioned? :crybaby:
He called a spade a spade.
Why should our government waste thousands of dollars on false claimants and tied up our court system; and welfare system on bogus claims.
The only one that made a killing is our ambulance chasers of taxpayers money. :crybaby: :boring:
They have wonderfully ambulance chasers in the good old USA and there welfare system is good there too. :boring: :crybaby:
They should of send them packing back ;When they first got here and correspond by mail or email to government agency's".
The government immigration dept. should have made them go back to there home country;" Like everybody else and wait for there cleareance to come here."
Maybe when they get off there drug trip and realize that they get no free rides and treat like every body that come here. :rules: :brickwall: :clown: :deadhorse:
He called a spade a spade.
Why should our government waste thousands of dollars on false claimants and tied up our court system; and welfare system on bogus claims.
The only one that made a killing is our ambulance chasers of taxpayers money. :crybaby: :boring:
They have wonderfully ambulance chasers in the good old USA and there welfare system is good there too. :boring: :crybaby:
They should of send them packing back ;When they first got here and correspond by mail or email to government agency's".
The government immigration dept. should have made them go back to there home country;" Like everybody else and wait for there cleareance to come here."
Maybe when they get off there drug trip and realize that they get no free rides and treat like every body that come here. :rules: :brickwall: :clown: :deadhorse:
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Umm one point that hasnt been raised yet is she has given birth to a Canadian citizen who by law can stay in Canada. When she crosses tha line if is still more like it . the daughter can come back at her free will probably with the father as he hasnet been charged with anything . THEN he can apply for Canadian citzenship under the fact that daughter WANTS to live in her Country even if she is only chewing pablum . Then MOM the deserter can also apply for it. I dont know how that will look though being charged with what she has been. Just the devils advocate here folks
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The daughter is a Canadian citizen by virtue of being born here but that does not automatically confer any rights on the parents. I'll have to look up the immigration rules regarding sponsoring of parents but I'm reasonably certain the sponsoring child must be an adult for that to happen - and mom is facing criminal charges in the United States I would assume, therefore she would be ineligible to immigrate to Canada.
axeman said:Umm one point that hasnt been raised yet is she has given birth to a Canadian citizen who by law can stay in Canada. When she crosses tha line if is still more like it . the daughter can come back at her free will probably with the father as he hasnet been charged with anything . THEN he can apply for Canadian citzenship under the fact that daughter WANTS to live in her Country even if she is only chewing pablum . Then MOM the deserter can also apply for it. I dont know how that will look though being charged with what she has been. Just the devils advocate here folks
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... until such time as someone gives her a pardon.... on the US side of the border.
Anyway you slice it, she's gotta go back home. Sweetheart, it's time to close your eyes, click your heels together & start saying "there's no place like home".....
GBye
Anyway you slice it, she's gotta go back home. Sweetheart, it's time to close your eyes, click your heels together & start saying "there's no place like home".....
GBye
It give dual citizenship to her daughter and she can live on both sides of the border.
When she 18 she can apply to have her parents live in Canada; but still at the government process ; not an immediate OK.
She need a pardon for her mother to enter Canada and apply for residence or citizenship 5years later. :crybaby:
This does not give any opening to stay in Canada or duck her responsibility that she is facing in the USA.
With all avenues completed ;there is no more stalling tactics left and its home Sweet home. :crybaby: :'( :-* :-[ :
USA local authority's will deal with her and get rid of her as an embarrassment to there Armed Forces.
After that nobody cares to hear about her or her future. :crybaby: :boring:
When she 18 she can apply to have her parents live in Canada; but still at the government process ; not an immediate OK.
She need a pardon for her mother to enter Canada and apply for residence or citizenship 5years later. :crybaby:
This does not give any opening to stay in Canada or duck her responsibility that she is facing in the USA.
With all avenues completed ;there is no more stalling tactics left and its home Sweet home. :crybaby: :'( :-* :-[ :
USA local authority's will deal with her and get rid of her as an embarrassment to there Armed Forces.
After that nobody cares to hear about her or her future. :crybaby: :boring:
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desertfox115
For the love of God and all that is holy please lay off the emoticon!!!!
If she is convicted of a criminal offence in the USA and it can equate to a hybrid or indictable offence in Canada, she can be found to be criminally inadmissible. Unless a pardon is given or the conviction is expunged.
At this point she has been given a "Departure Order", if she ignores it a "Deportation Order" will be ordered. Without a criminal record, she would be able to return to Canada with a Departure Order at anytime. If a Deportation Order is in effect, she will not be allowed back to Canada without the Minister's consent and a "Temporary Resident Permit" will have to be issued. If she does attempt to return without permission she then can be charged criminally.
For the love of God and all that is holy please lay off the emoticon!!!!
If she is convicted of a criminal offence in the USA and it can equate to a hybrid or indictable offence in Canada, she can be found to be criminally inadmissible. Unless a pardon is given or the conviction is expunged.
At this point she has been given a "Departure Order", if she ignores it a "Deportation Order" will be ordered. Without a criminal record, she would be able to return to Canada with a Departure Order at anytime. If a Deportation Order is in effect, she will not be allowed back to Canada without the Minister's consent and a "Temporary Resident Permit" will have to be issued. If she does attempt to return without permission she then can be charged criminally.
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WR said:
I have to agree with that part - more words please...
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