U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[NSDreamer]

It's called the reserves 

and yet ironically I'm willing to wager the reserves have far more deserters then the regular forces.

 

[Jarnhamar]

and yet ironically I'm willing to wager the reserves have far more deserters then the regular forces.

US is different than Canada in this regard.

 

[xena]

Just be sure to leave your military ID behind when you do so.

And don't walk into your unit's pay office after being AWOL for six months, and ask why your pay has been stopped....  Unless you really want to get reacquainted with the RP's.  >

 

[brihard]

And don't walk into your unit's pay office after being AWOL for six months, and ask why your pay has been stopped....  Unless you really want to get reacquainted with the RP's.  >

This sounds like there's a good story behind it?

 

[xena]

Something like that may have happened at the 2RCR pay office once.  Allegedly.

 

[kratz]

My search for Chuck Wiley, who is in the news again, so even though this thread is over two years old, it is relevant. Chuck Wiley seems to be on a speaking tour crying "poor me", trying to drum up support for the federal government to enact legislation to protect Americans who ran to Canada for their choices.

War resister paid high price
'It’s legally wrong, it’s morally wrong'
By PAT LEE Staff Reporter
Thu, Mar 17 - 7:06 AM

By the time he reached the age of 38, Kentucky native Chuck Wiley thought he would be retired from the United States military and working at a civilian power plant "until I was too old to get out of bed."

Instead, the trained nuclear engineer has been living in Canada since 2007. He has not spoken to his parents since moving north and is waiting to learn if he’ll be deported back to the United States, where he’s sure he’ll be jailed as a deserter from the U.S. navy.

A former chief petty officer, Wiley has paid a high professional and personal price for his decision to oppose the Iraq war.

"I wish it could have gone better," he admits. "But at the end of the day, the fundamental problem is that what the military is doing in (Iraq) is wrong. It’s legally wrong, it’s morally wrong and it shouldn’t be happening."

There are about 50 former members of the American military seeking sanctuary in Canada. They are pressuring Ottawa to enact safe haven legislation for anyone who opposes fighting in a war not sanctioned by the United Nations.

But as it stands now, the federal government is moving to deport Wiley and the others back to the U.S.

more at link

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

It still escapes me, but why don't these people just resign without the drama?  Wiley could have resigned, possibly less than honourably, and with his education and experience applied for a decent job in Canada.  Assuming a nuclear engineer must have some significant education, he may have qualified for automatic admission under the Free Trade Act.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Headline query:  Why are people who voluntarily signed a contract, then reneged on it, still called "war resisters" in headlines, instead of "alleged* deserters"?

* - I add "alleged" only because if they're here, they haven't been found guilty of said offence in the U.S.

 

[ModlrMike]

Headline query:  Why are people who voluntarily signed a contract, then reneged on it, still called "war resisters" in headlines, instead of "alleged* deserters"?

* - I add "alleged" only because if they're here, they haven't been found guilty of said offence in the U.S.

Because it fits the "poor oppressed, Bush illegal war, not UN sanctioned, we're better" meme that the MSM champions. Calling them deserters won't sell as many papers.

I know you asked a rhetorical question... I still had to answer it. 

 

[Strike]

It's this part here that gets to me:

Eventually, though, he started asking questions about certain missions that didn’t seem right, he said. The answers he received didn’t add up and, eventually, he questioned the point of the entire exercise.

"I kind of got into a pissing contest with my chain of command, for lack of a better term. I asked questions and I got responses like, ‘you need to shut up and go back to work. This doesn’t concern you.’ That offended me."

Wiley said he was reprimanded.

As a Nuclear Engineer on a ship he has no need to know what's going on with respect to the mission as a whole.  It won't help him to carry out his duties so no wonder he was told that it didn't concern him.  As someone who has spent so much time in the US Navy and achieved the rank he had, he should have known better.

I get the impression that he just didn't want to deploy again.

 

[The Bread Guy]

An update:  another one a step closer to heading back south....

The first female U.S. war deserter to flee to Canada will be sent back to the United States following an immigration board decision made Thursday.

Kimberly Rivera, a mother of four young children who lives in Toronto with her husband, served in Iraq as a U.S. Army private in 2006.

Rivera became disillusioned with the mission and crossed the border into Canada while on leave in February 2007 after she was ordered to serve another tour in Iraq.

Michelle Robidoux, a spokeswoman for the War Resisters Support Campaign, said Thursday that Citizenship and Immigration Canada has ordered Rivera to leave the country by Sept. 20.

Robidoux said Rivera will meet with her lawyers to determine her next course of action and was unavailable to comment on the deportation order.

"We are very upset about this decision," said Robidoux. "The cases of war resisters are not being looked at properly."

The War Resisters Support Campaign says Rivera, 30, will face harsh punishment in the United States if she's deported ....

CBC.ca, 30 Aug 12

Sign a contract, and break the rules?  Face the consequences....

 

[fraserdw]

Hopefully, we sent enough of these people back that the message will get through that Canada is not a place to hide out from your military contracts.

 

[medicineman]

I do to, but doubt it'll register, as you have the nutbars here that support them without fully digesting what they've really done.

MM

 

[The Bread Guy]

• Vancouver Sun headline:  "U.S. arrests female Iraq war deserter"
• CBC headline:  "Female U.S. war resister deported"
• CTV headline:  "Iraq war resister deported from Canada, arrested at U.S. border"
• Sun Media headline, 30 Aug 12:  "Canada orders deportation of U.S. soldier"
  
• Sun Media headline, 27 Jan 09:  "Temporary stay for war resister mom"
• Macleans headline:  "US war resister deported from Canada, arrested at the border"

My question still stands (with one change in yellow) to any media folks who frequent the fora here....

Headline query:  Why are people who voluntarily signed a contract, then reneged on it, still (in most cases) called "war resisters" in headlines, instead of "alleged* deserters"?

* - I add "alleged" only because if they're here, they haven't been found guilty of said offence in the U.S.

 

[fraserdw]

Because media is a business and resister sells more papers than deserter in liberal minded Canadian circles.

 

[Kat Stevens]

"Resister" makes a coward sound noble, "deserter" makes a coward sound, well, cowardly.

 

[Devo3733]

Pulled from Wikipedia:

A long-time resident of Mesquite, Texas, Rivera worked at Walmart prior to her military service, meeting her future husband Mario there. After she and Mario married, they agreed that one of them should join the army for financial reasons, but both were initially too overweight for the army's requirements. Because Rivera shed the weight faster, she enlisted instead of her husband, signing with the US Army in January 2006 for an $8000 bonus.[4]

She served her first tour of duty in Iraq starting in October of that year and worked primarily as a gate guard. She soon became disillusioned with the mission, later stating that she was particularly influenced by seeing a crying two-year-old Iraqi girl coming with her family to claim compensation for bombing by coalition forces. On another occasion, she returned to her bunk to find a piece of shrapnel in it. Though she had been initially interested in supporting democracy for the Iraqi people, she stated that she felt she found only "lies" in Iraq and felt betrayed by the US government.[4]

Perhaps instead of war resisters people should be called "didn't think it through-ers?  Or just good old fashioned deserters.  The parallel being drawn so often between Vietnam draft dodgers and todays deserters is just silly.  Skipping town to avoid being forced into service of a war you don't support is one thing, voluntarily joining in the middle of a conflict and signing a contract and then reneging on that is wholly different.  I wonder if I could make a case for being a "mortgage resister"...

 

[armyguy1290]

"Resister" makes a coward sound noble, "deserter" makes a coward sound, well, cowardly.

While I may not agree with what the deserters have done, I ask you this: how does standing up and speaking out against something you believe is morally wrong cowardly? Especially when it means your entire way of life could take a turn for the worst...

Again, I'm not a supporter of their actions, but I would hesitate on calling them cowards.

 

[Kat Stevens]

While I may not agree with what the deserters have done, I ask you this: how does standing up and speaking out against something you believe is morally wrong cowardly? Especially when it means your entire way of life could take a turn for the worst...

Again, I'm not a supporter of their actions, but I would hesitate on calling them cowards.

Very well then, they are dishonourable welchers who refuse to fulfil their part of a bargain negotiated in good faith.  Like that better?  Hope so, wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.  What's morally wrong is that they entered into a contractual agreement, and when one of the terms of that contract came due, they didn't stand up and speak out, they ran for the high heather... THEN they spoke up.

 

[The Bread Guy]

While I may not agree with what the deserters have done, I ask you this: how does standing up and speaking out against something you believe is morally wrong cowardly? Especially when it means your entire way of life could take a turn for the worst...

If they believe in their position so strongly, why don't they accept the consequences of the decision they've made? 

He did the "crime", but he also did the time.

How well would the system work if cops got to pick and choose which laws they enforce, or which areas they agree to enforce the law in - or not because they don't believe in the rules?  Don't like the rules?  Don't get in.  Don't like them when you're in?  Get out, and be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions.