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U.S. Soldier charged in drowning of iraqi, blames surperiors

Jarnhamar

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(American soldiers throw Iraq men over a bridge, one dies. "Just following orders")



U.S. SOLDIER CHARGED IN DROWNING OF IRAQI BLAMES SUPERIORS

Fort Carson, Colo (AP)

One of four U.S. soldiers charged with pushing two Iraqis into a river, where on of them drowned, said he was ordered to do so and told what to say to officials looking into the death, an army investigator testified Wednesday.
Spc. Terry Bowman said he "was told by his chain of command what version to give" investigators, Sgt. Irene Cintron of the army's Criminal Investigation Command said during a teleconference from Iraq as the military convened a hearing to determine whether the soldiers will be court-martialled.
Bowman said he had been ordered to push the men into the Tigris River, Cintron said.
It was not disclosed who gave the order. Three of the soldier's commanders have received non-judicial punishments for their roles in the incident.   None of those punishments include jail time.
Sgt. 1st Class Tracy Perkins, 33, 1st Lieut. Jack Saville, 23, and Sgt. Reggie Martinez, 24, are charged with involuntary manslaughter in the Jan 3 drowning death of a man identified by family members in Iraq as Zaidoun Fadel Hassoun 19.
Bowman, 21, is charged with assault for allegedly pushing the second man into the river at the same time. That man, a cousin of Hassoun named Marwan Fadel Hassoun, 23, survived the incident and described the events to The Associated Press.
Marwan Hassoun said he tried to help his cousin swim to safety, only to lose his grip as the soldiers watched and laughed.   "They were behaving like they were watching a comedy on stage," he told the AP several weeks ago.
Perkins, Martinez and Bowman appeared at Wednesday's Article 32 hearing, which is similar to a civilian grand jury hearing. Saville's hearing is tentatively scheduled for Sept 9. The four soldiers face between 5 1/2 years and 26 1/2 years in prison if they are tried and convicted.
Cintron said investigators learned of the death in an e-mail from the victims family.   She said she met with Marwan Hassoun on Jan 16; he told her how they were stopped after obtaining supplies in Baghdad and then driver to the bridge several kilometres north of Samarra.
Marwan Hassoun said he watched the soldiers push his cousin into the water and then he was pushed in, Cintron testified. He said he could hear his cousin screaming. "He said it was eight metres deep and at no point did he feel the bottom of the river". she said
She described the drop from the bridge as being about three metres.
After he got out on the bank, Hassoun said he could hear the soldiers above laughing as they drove away. He said he went back to a checkpoint "soaking wet from the river" and reported what happened, Cintron said.
His cousin's body was found about five kilometres downriver.
Martinez initially told investigators neither he nor anyone in his platoon pushed anyone in the river, Cintron said. A week later, on Jan 23, Martinez said he had gone to the river's edge with the men, "kicked one in the butt" but the man jumped in on his own.
 
Charge both the troops and leadership for being stupid.

It seems a lot of people getting charged (military wise) lately have been using following orders as an excuse.

Can't these guys think for themselves?  What does it take for a soldier to sit back and say to himself "Hey, maybe following that order is a bad idea".
 
I think "Following Orders" was Eichmann's excuse.
Not calling these kids Eichmann's, but it didn't work for him 50 years ago, so it shouldn't work for them.

One of the beautiful things about the 20th century was the newfound ability (The Majority) of people gained to think for themselves. Which gave the free world the ability to say "Take your evil order and stick'er"
Well not quite so rudely, but you get the point.
 
Unfortunately,in this NWO we created, the ability to blame everything and everyone but ourselves seems to be more deeply ingrained everyday.
Deny instead of honour.....the end of society?
 
Che said:
I think "Following Orders" was Eichmann's excuse.
Not calling these kids Eichmann's, but it didn't work for him 50 years ago, so it shouldn't work for them.

One of the beautiful things about the 20th century was the newfound ability (The Majority) of people gained to think for themselves. Which gave the free world the ability to say "Take your evil order and stick'er"
Well not quite so rudely, but you get the point.

Agreed!

The bullshit these people try to come up with is unbelievable, I have morals like the majority and even if this wasn't made up.  I'd bluntly tell the CO or whoever to go for a swim himself.  There's no place for this even if it results in punishment for me not following it.  I'm here to help a country, not act like a former member of the Saddam regime or be like the insurgents.  :warstory: :cdn:
 
How would it make you feel if soldiers (from whatever country)  who came to canada threw two of your buddies off a bridge and laughed about it.  One of them came back to the surface, the other didn't.

I know what i'd think the first time i saw them in a dark ally or with their back turned.

These soldiers in the news articles we post are just making it harder on themselves.


 
Don't US troops get the same law of armed conflict training we do - ie., following orders is not an excuse? I remember being taught that on a few courses...

Bruce Monkhouse said:
Unfortunately,in this NWO we created, the ability to blame everything and everyone but ourselves seems to be more deeply ingrained everyday.
Deny instead of honour.....the end of society?

Lack of a sense of personal responsibility for one's actions - you see it more and more... From burglars suing homeowners for weak roofs that collapse during a break-and-enter, to parents who will not punish a child for bad behaviour at school because the teacher cannot possibly be right about their little angels - end of society, indeed....
 
In the movie "15 minutes" one of the bad guys makes a very good point, even for a movie villain. "Here in America, people are not responsible for their actions."

It's really true when you think about it. There are so many paper trails etc. that you can just perpetually pass the blame along until either some poor sap takes it, it's somehow forgotten, or some other cause that can't be blamed on someone is found.
 
yeah another thing i heard from a friend is that a prisoner was told to stand on a box and was told that if he moved they would electricute him so he stood there fo 22 hours me personaly dont know if its true i just passing on what i heard
 
There is no responsibility in society whatsoever. What happened to someone f*^%ing up and saying, "Yeah boss, it's on me, I'll take whatever punishment/corrective action you dish out"? The guys I work with know damn well that if they screw up giving some lame excuse or trying to legitimatize, blame or reduce their screwup will only land them in much hotter water. They are expected to be accountable and for the most part it works very well.

Warning labels everywhere. Can't even buy a cup of Timmy's anymore without seeing a warning label because some oxygen bandit decided to put the coffee (Which is served HOT by the way) between their legs and tried to drive. Poor schlub went around a corner and BAM, scalding coffee in their lap. WOW, who didn't see that coming? I am not too strong with physics but even I understand that liquids mooooove.........SO, the aforementioned waste of skin gets a lawyer and sues the company that sold them the coffee in the first place because he didn't know it was hot enough to burn himself.....I was at a loss for words when I read that.

In the situation discussed i this thread the soldiers should have known bloody well that they were given an unlawful order, I mean come ON!

Just Thoughts

Cheers
 
"yeah another thing i heard from a friend is that a prisoner was told to stand on a box and was told that if he moved they would electricute him so he stood there fo 22 hours me personaly dont know if its true i just passing on what i heard "

Beats cutting off their heads.
 
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