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George Wallace said:
You know...that's one hell of an idea for a system of government....vote by dueling
(US) Army Orders Soldiers to Shed Dragon Skin or Lose SGLI Death Benefits
- Thread starter Arctic Acorn
- Start date
You know...that's one hell of an idea for a system of government....vote by dueling
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 410
Found on another forum. this guy pays the price for not being alert, but his body armor worked.
A quote from the video forum post.
In reference to the posted video, unless I am mistaken, this video is a shortened clip. After the soldier is dropped, he moves around to the other side of the HMMWV, where he is checked for wounds. (This is where the video ends, but the best part of the story starts.) After being cleared, he and his group set out to find the sniper and engage them in a small firefight. In the aftermath, the original Sniper is shot, and First Aid is rendered by the original Sniper Victim. The IBA is the best piece of equipment being offerd to our fellow troops in the last 25 years.
http://www.sondrak.com/archive/skpics/CG%20briefing%20sniper%20clip.wmv
And:
Soldiers may be reimbursed for protective gear
By Maj. Paul Cucuzzella
January 13, 2006
WASHINGTON (Army News Service, Jan. 13, 2006) -- Soldiers may now file claims and receive reimbursement for protective equipment privately purchased between Sept. 11, 2001, and July 31, 2004.
A provision of the 2005 Defense Authorization Act allows for the reimbursement if service members weren’t issued equivalent equipment prior to deployment in Operations Noble Eagle, Enduring Freedom or Iraqi Freedom.
Full story at:
http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=8457
A quote from the video forum post.
In reference to the posted video, unless I am mistaken, this video is a shortened clip. After the soldier is dropped, he moves around to the other side of the HMMWV, where he is checked for wounds. (This is where the video ends, but the best part of the story starts.) After being cleared, he and his group set out to find the sniper and engage them in a small firefight. In the aftermath, the original Sniper is shot, and First Aid is rendered by the original Sniper Victim. The IBA is the best piece of equipment being offerd to our fellow troops in the last 25 years.
http://www.sondrak.com/archive/skpics/CG%20briefing%20sniper%20clip.wmv
And:
Soldiers may be reimbursed for protective gear
By Maj. Paul Cucuzzella
January 13, 2006
WASHINGTON (Army News Service, Jan. 13, 2006) -- Soldiers may now file claims and receive reimbursement for protective equipment privately purchased between Sept. 11, 2001, and July 31, 2004.
A provision of the 2005 Defense Authorization Act allows for the reimbursement if service members weren’t issued equivalent equipment prior to deployment in Operations Noble Eagle, Enduring Freedom or Iraqi Freedom.
Full story at:
http://www4.army.mil/news/article.php?story=8457
- Reaction score
- 2,847
- Points
- 940
The debate isn't really new:
"It is my opinion that press reports of statements by high-ranking officers to the effect that we have the best equipment in the world do much to discourage the soldier who is using equipment that he knows to be inferior to that of the enemy"
- BGen JH Collier, Combat Command A, 2nd Armored Division, 1945
Mind you, the troops weren't actually buying their own Tiger tanks because their Sherman's were second rate
"It is my opinion that press reports of statements by high-ranking officers to the effect that we have the best equipment in the world do much to discourage the soldier who is using equipment that he knows to be inferior to that of the enemy"
- BGen JH Collier, Combat Command A, 2nd Armored Division, 1945
Mind you, the troops weren't actually buying their own Tiger tanks because their Sherman's were second rate
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
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Army Tests Pinnacle Armor "Dragon Skin" Vests
Army News Service | May 19, 2006
The Army announced that PEO Soldier has contracted with Pinnacle Armor to purchase 30 of its latest body armor vests, known as “Dragon Skin,” for delivery no later than May 17.
The 30 production-representative vests will be delivered to H.P. White in Street, Md., for ballistic testing. HP White is the only National Institute of Justice-certified, independent, ballistic-testing laboratory in the United States capable of conducting the complete First Article Test. This is the same facility and ballistic testing standards used on the body armor currently fielded to Soldiers. Upon completion of the First Article Test -- which is a three-day test -- the Army will issue a press release stating the results.
All suppliers of Army body armor are required to pass the First Article Test. This is the same standard test conducted on the currently fielded body armor. Standard testing consists of a variety of ammunition and weapons fired on various size vests, under a range of conditions that replicate combat environments.
If “Dragon Skin” successfully completes First Article testing, it will advance to the second phase of testing. The Second Phase testing is conducted at Fort Benning, Ga., and consists of form, fit, function and operational suitability to meet Soldiers’ needs across a wide variety of combat tasks.
Sound Off...What do you think? Join the discussion.
Copyright 2006 Army News Service. All opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily reflect those of Military.com.
Army Tests Pinnacle Armor "Dragon Skin" Vests
Army News Service | May 19, 2006
The Army announced that PEO Soldier has contracted with Pinnacle Armor to purchase 30 of its latest body armor vests, known as “Dragon Skin,” for delivery no later than May 17.
The 30 production-representative vests will be delivered to H.P. White in Street, Md., for ballistic testing. HP White is the only National Institute of Justice-certified, independent, ballistic-testing laboratory in the United States capable of conducting the complete First Article Test. This is the same facility and ballistic testing standards used on the body armor currently fielded to Soldiers. Upon completion of the First Article Test -- which is a three-day test -- the Army will issue a press release stating the results.
All suppliers of Army body armor are required to pass the First Article Test. This is the same standard test conducted on the currently fielded body armor. Standard testing consists of a variety of ammunition and weapons fired on various size vests, under a range of conditions that replicate combat environments.
If “Dragon Skin” successfully completes First Article testing, it will advance to the second phase of testing. The Second Phase testing is conducted at Fort Benning, Ga., and consists of form, fit, function and operational suitability to meet Soldiers’ needs across a wide variety of combat tasks.
Sound Off...What do you think? Join the discussion.
Copyright 2006 Army News Service. All opinions expressed in this article are the author's and do not necessarily reflect those of Military.com.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901606.html
Potential Advance in Body Armor Fails Tests
By Lolita C. Baldor
Associated Press
Saturday, May 20, 2006; Page A13
The Army's struggle to find a new, more flexible body armor was dealt a setback yesterday when a California company's high-tech Dragon Skin vests failed to pass military testing, a senior Defense Department official said.
After three days of testing this week, the Army determined that the body armor does not meet military specifications, said the official, who declined to specify which tests the armor failed. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because the results have not been released.
The Army paid about $170,000 to buy 30 sets of the armor for the testing.
Generally, during testing, various types of ammunition are fired at the vests, and the armor may also be subjected to extreme temperatures or environmental conditions. The tests were done by H.P. White, an independent ballistic testing lab in Street, Md.
The Army has expressed great interest in getting more flexible body armor. One of the key complaints about the armor used by troops on the battlefield is that it is too heavy and inflexible and may lessen a soldier's speed and agility. The current armor includes heavy ceramic plates in the front, in back and on the sides.
The Dragon Skin testing was initially delayed because of a dispute over testing conditions between the Army and Pinnacle Armor of Fresno, Calif., which makes the product.
Earlier this week, the Army announced it would conduct three days of testing, signaling the dispute's resolution.
A request for comment from Murray Neal, Pinnacle Armor's chief executive, was not immediately returned.
Neal, however, has previously contended that his armor is of high quality and its "capabilities have been proven to be significant improvements over the current Army issue."
He said he has nine years of ballistic data, both classified and unclassified, that show the armor taking over 40 rounds of ammunition from an AK-47, then another 150 rounds from a submachine gun, all at close range without any failure.
Potential Advance in Body Armor Fails Tests
By Lolita C. Baldor
Associated Press
Saturday, May 20, 2006; Page A13
The Army's struggle to find a new, more flexible body armor was dealt a setback yesterday when a California company's high-tech Dragon Skin vests failed to pass military testing, a senior Defense Department official said.
After three days of testing this week, the Army determined that the body armor does not meet military specifications, said the official, who declined to specify which tests the armor failed. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because the results have not been released.
The Army paid about $170,000 to buy 30 sets of the armor for the testing.
Generally, during testing, various types of ammunition are fired at the vests, and the armor may also be subjected to extreme temperatures or environmental conditions. The tests were done by H.P. White, an independent ballistic testing lab in Street, Md.
The Army has expressed great interest in getting more flexible body armor. One of the key complaints about the armor used by troops on the battlefield is that it is too heavy and inflexible and may lessen a soldier's speed and agility. The current armor includes heavy ceramic plates in the front, in back and on the sides.
The Dragon Skin testing was initially delayed because of a dispute over testing conditions between the Army and Pinnacle Armor of Fresno, Calif., which makes the product.
Earlier this week, the Army announced it would conduct three days of testing, signaling the dispute's resolution.
A request for comment from Murray Neal, Pinnacle Armor's chief executive, was not immediately returned.
Neal, however, has previously contended that his armor is of high quality and its "capabilities have been proven to be significant improvements over the current Army issue."
He said he has nine years of ballistic data, both classified and unclassified, that show the armor taking over 40 rounds of ammunition from an AK-47, then another 150 rounds from a submachine gun, all at close range without any failure.
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
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I saw dragon skin on Discovery channel and it looked like an amazing piece of kit...but then we have to take things with a grain of salt
- Reaction score
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A couple of comments - first, I doubt that the Secret Service changes their equipment, based on who is the President. Seems they always gotta sneak in some Dubya bashing.
Second, I would imagine that military requirements differ significantly from Secret Service requirements.
Other than that, I don't have a "side" in this quarrel
Second, I would imagine that military requirements differ significantly from Secret Service requirements.
Other than that, I don't have a "side" in this quarrel
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
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career_radio-checker said:
Yea I was about to post the same comment, I can see an escort of 6 men quick marching a coffin onto the carpet.
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"For you younguns a history lesson.
back in the 80's a similar set of circumstances occurred. The culprit Brit camo pattern and US issue jungle boots. Both items were highly sought after items that were not issued through formal channels. British units in Canada rotating back to the United Kingdom were to destroy cbt uniforms used in Canada. In both Wainwright and Sufflied a highly organized unoffical NATO QM system developed. Magic Pantry IRP's in sufficient quantity would get you a set of slightly used Brit camos. After the Bn CO and RSM were seen trooping the line in their 'gifts', imitation became the sincerest form of flattery. No orders were passed but it was understood by one and all that the unofficial uniform was for field use only. The only caveat in this was the bright forward thinking Recce plt CO who managed to successfully argue the lack of suitable equipment for his plt and they became standard issue to that platoon."
And don't forget US Rain jackets and Ranger blankets and Danners. Ah yes, when bivie bags were something in the pages of US Cavalry...
back in the 80's a similar set of circumstances occurred. The culprit Brit camo pattern and US issue jungle boots. Both items were highly sought after items that were not issued through formal channels. British units in Canada rotating back to the United Kingdom were to destroy cbt uniforms used in Canada. In both Wainwright and Sufflied a highly organized unoffical NATO QM system developed. Magic Pantry IRP's in sufficient quantity would get you a set of slightly used Brit camos. After the Bn CO and RSM were seen trooping the line in their 'gifts', imitation became the sincerest form of flattery. No orders were passed but it was understood by one and all that the unofficial uniform was for field use only. The only caveat in this was the bright forward thinking Recce plt CO who managed to successfully argue the lack of suitable equipment for his plt and they became standard issue to that platoon."
And don't forget US Rain jackets and Ranger blankets and Danners. Ah yes, when bivie bags were something in the pages of US Cavalry...
- Reaction score
- 35
- Points
- 530
There was a special on Dragon Skin on Weapons Races or something like that.
The host who is ex-special forces put more than 100 rounds into vest of 9mm (MP5), 5.56mm (M-16) and 7.62mm (AK-47) and didn't get one penetration.
The final test was they put a dummy with a vest on, on top of a grenade (this part was being monitored by a guy from one of the local bomb squads because he was looking at adding to his guy kit). Again, no penetration at all.
I'm by no means an expert, but the host is, and his eyebrows were definitely raised....
Matthew.
The host who is ex-special forces put more than 100 rounds into vest of 9mm (MP5), 5.56mm (M-16) and 7.62mm (AK-47) and didn't get one penetration.
The final test was they put a dummy with a vest on, on top of a grenade (this part was being monitored by a guy from one of the local bomb squads because he was looking at adding to his guy kit). Again, no penetration at all.
I'm by no means an expert, but the host is, and his eyebrows were definitely raised....
Matthew.
yeah i saw the same bit. I am also not an expert, and even if the host isnt either, the EOD guy they had sure was. A soldier taking a grenade like would probably still have died due to concussion, but he wouldnt have died from shrapnel to the chest thats for sure. Impressive, but I think the jury is still out.
- Reaction score
- 21,995
- Points
- 1,260
I have a set of Dragon Skin.
- It is heavier than conventional plate -- but it is much more flexible.
The issue of future weapons was not very well done.
The M855 5.56mm round is the greatest penetrator of the M43 7.62x39 or the M882 9mm Ball
Yet the host made it seem the 9mm then the 7.62mm where more powerful
FWIW a set of Dragon Skin for the SPEARS/BALCS systems (Paraclete RAV, Eagle CIRAS etc) is $5750 USD...
- It is heavier than conventional plate -- but it is much more flexible.
The issue of future weapons was not very well done.
The M855 5.56mm round is the greatest penetrator of the M43 7.62x39 or the M882 9mm Ball
Yet the host made it seem the 9mm then the 7.62mm where more powerful
FWIW a set of Dragon Skin for the SPEARS/BALCS systems (Paraclete RAV, Eagle CIRAS etc) is $5750 USD...
- Reaction score
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you weren't detered by the negative press in Lightfighter (granted I haven't been there in a while).
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- 21,995
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It's got positive and negative points
I know a member on the testing board - who pointed out the US mil failed it due to the increase in weight over the IBA -- neglecting the point - it offers a 34% increase in coverage, for a 22% increase in weight --- and more importantly one can move in it --
When you look a US mil troop with IBA - side plates - bicep armor - and neck and groin protector -- the guy is not going anywhere.
Ali baba -- knows this and takes advantage of the lack of dismounted manuverability.
It don't think DS is the full meal deal --- but some some uses it does the trick
I know a member on the testing board - who pointed out the US mil failed it due to the increase in weight over the IBA -- neglecting the point - it offers a 34% increase in coverage, for a 22% increase in weight --- and more importantly one can move in it --
When you look a US mil troop with IBA - side plates - bicep armor - and neck and groin protector -- the guy is not going anywhere.
Ali baba -- knows this and takes advantage of the lack of dismounted manuverability.
It don't think DS is the full meal deal --- but some some uses it does the trick
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Just saw the Future Weapons ep.
Kev you still using this? Anything further to add?
Kev you still using this? Anything further to add?
- Reaction score
- 21,995
- Points
- 1,260
Yeah --
There is a lot of info and accusations on the Lightfighter thread.
Rumour has Nattick (US Soldier System development) has their own version soon to come out...
My guess is a lot of rumour and innuendo is being thrown both ways.
1) If Pinnacle can get DOD to buy -- its the golden egg
2) If Natick can get theirs in -- its in house baby - flashy PER's for everyone. (and millions saved)
There is a lot of info and accusations on the Lightfighter thread.
Rumour has Nattick (US Soldier System development) has their own version soon to come out...
My guess is a lot of rumour and innuendo is being thrown both ways.
1) If Pinnacle can get DOD to buy -- its the golden egg
2) If Natick can get theirs in -- its in house baby - flashy PER's for everyone. (and millions saved)
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Any trickle down to say...Us?
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